WotLK - Complete Mage Compendium (3.3 PTR) - Page 113

Stormhole · 10/06/08, 2:48 AM

Originally Posted by xiaoxin21

Is this proven? The first post stated that frostfire + elemental precision gets only 3% from hit. If it is changed it will make Frostfire a very good spec for entry level raiding where we don't have quite enough hit until we get some naxx/badge gear.

This was an artefact of double dipping, I've seen misses with Ffb on the dummies.
Getting hit capped is very easy between Misery, Talents, a Dranei aura, hit food / gems.

That being said, even without the ghost hit bonus, Ffb is looking pretty damn good right now:

0/51/18 is looking pretty good at the moment:

Patchwerk

Its very compareable to Fireball specs:

14/51 + 7
Patchwerk

Søndag · 10/06/08, 4:42 AM

Scoreboard updated! link is in my signature, see below!

Originally Posted by Roywyn

1) Cool!
2) Your Frostfire spec 20/40/11 seems not good, sorry. Focus+Torment is not worth losing Pierce/Veins/Streak/Burnout unless I'm missing something.
You'd have to exclude it from the Focus Magic chain then thug.
Try 0/53/18 too, just withut casting Bomb.
3) Non-arcane specs get ~12k mana from Evo, 4.3k from a pt, 4781 from gems with 4/5 T7. Arcane gets ~13.5k frm Evo.
That should improve mana in some specs.

1) Thanx
2) My Frostfire_Livingbomb spec should be trying to do just that!
3) I'll try this out later to see if i could change armor or rotation somewhere.

Originally Posted by Pasture

Out of interest what would the dps be for the fire mage who kept his own scorch rotations up?

At the moment fire mages are benefitting, perhaps hugely, from the assumption that there will be some poor arcane mage in the raid stacking scorches and slows for the fire mages.

I guess you are right! and there are now models that show that.

Roywyn · 10/06/08, 4:55 AM

Originally Posted by dedmonwakeen

In general the crit rate is so high that the Mage casting Focus gets almost as much benefit as the target receiving it.

So it doesn't have to be a complete round-robin

If you spec out of Focus Magic, that means you and someone else in the raid lose 3%.
Taking that 0/53/18 mage out of the chain means he loses 6% personal crit, which is a decent estimate for him and someone else losing 3% crit.

Originally Posted by Searix

Wondering how http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...50323102405321 Frostfire Bolt would work.

Probably one of the highest scaling spells, if not at base, then with more crit gear. All things considered should crit for over 400%

It has the same crit multiplier as 0/53/18 and gets a ton of junk Arcane Talents instead of good Fire talents.
Its DPS is closer to Scorch than to Fireball.

Originally Posted by Pasture

Out of interest what would the dps be for the fire mage who kept his own scorch rotations up?

At the moment fire mages are benefitting, perhaps hugely, from the assumption that there will be some poor arcane mage in the raid stacking scorches and slows for the fire mages.

I think we need to be realistic. This isn't going to happen.

A more accurate test for fire would be to exclude torment of the weak and have the fire mage apply his own scorch debuff. You'll be incredibly lucky to find a mage who wants to spec into Slow/Scorch debuffing on behalf of the other mages.

The reason why we simulate with a Slow+Scorch slave is exactly is figure out the the maximum DPS potential.
How would you want to change the Sim? Every mage casts Scorch every 30 seconds?
That would mess up the personal DPS numbers. If you have several mages, only one will keep up Scorch. Or no one will if one of the mages is frost.

Keeping Scorch up is a 30-50 DPS loss for any spec.

dedmonwakeen · 10/06/08, 5:06 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

If you spec out of Focus Magic, that means you and someone else in the raid lose 3%.
Taking that 0/53/18 mage out of the chain means he loses 6% personal crit, which is a decent estimate for him and someone else losing 3% crit.

That is a very strong defense. I'll make sure I follow that reasoning in any configs that get distributed with the executable.

Søndag · 10/06/08, 5:17 AM

Originally Posted by Searix

Wondering how http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...50323102405321 Frostfire Bolt would work.

Probably one of the highest scaling spells, if not at base, then with more crit gear. All things considered should crit for over 400%

I've tried to model a rotation around this spec, but i can't seem to make it perform good enough to be a real contender. But it's on the list so we can se if future changes to talents improves it.

Roywyn · 10/06/08, 6:01 AM

One thing that I would be interested in at some point is modeling each (or at least the mana hungry) spec with molten and mage armour each, and list how much downtime they have with molten armour (if any).

We'd have to wait for the upcoming mana change of course.
But mana/longvity is one of those things that's harder to see and estimate.

Originally Posted by Søndag

I've tried to model a rotation around this spec, but i can't seem to make it perform good enough to be a real contender. But it's on the list so we can se if future changes to talents improves it.

It's a spec that simply lacks damage talents. You give up the huge core of the fire tree (from tier 5 to 9) for the PoM-subtree, Missile/Arcane Barrage, 6% haste and 180 spell power.

Pintofbrew · 10/06/08, 6:22 AM

I think the point Searix was trying to make was "will FFB be able to compete in a 53/10/8, assuming TtW buffs FFB". Which, admittedly, is a whole load better than the previous iteration of tri-brid spell-power FFB but still not overtly better than plain 51+fire-frost FFB

maxi · 10/06/08, 6:35 AM

Incidentally, in the spirit regen formula sqrt(Int) * Spirit * Base_Regen, what is Base_Regen at 80?
Neither wowwike, nor theorycrafting think tank, seem to have any data on this.

Roywyn · 10/06/08, 7:02 AM

Originally Posted by maxi

Incidentally, in the spirit regen formula sqrt(Int) * Spirit * Base_Regen, what is Base_Regen at 80?
Neither wowwike, nor theorycrafting think tank, seem to have any data on this.

Check the Combat Rating at 80 thread. It's 0.005575.

Some more checking from beta:
1) Slow works on Sartharion and increases damage from 1017 to 1140 on AM.
2) FFB DoT rank 2 overwrites rank 1. So, my carefully planned FFB1/3*FFB2 rotation doesn't work.

3) Rune of Razorice adds 5% frost damage for all players and stacks with Ebon Plague (13% CoE).
4) Water Elemental and Mirror Images don't seem to get their master's +hit. Tested with abve 17% hit from gear.
5) Arcane Missiles now trigger MoE. 67 mana per crit at level 80. Splitting the base mana cost in 5.

Something wonky with +hit:
Specced 3/3 Elemental precision, 0/3 Arcane Focus, 11.17% hit from gear (293 rating). No Draenei, no Misery, no Moonkin hit.
a) Arcane Missiles 4.5% miss (18/400)
b) Ice Lance 1.5% miss (6/200)
c) Scorch 5.5% miss (11/200)
d) Frostfire Bolt (Rank 2) 0% miss (!) (0/200)
e) Frostbolt 6% (3/50, short test)
f) Fireball 8% (4/50, short test)

(The short tests were only to check if resists happen at all.)

g) 14.22% hit + 3/3 Precision: Frostbolt 0% (0/100)
h) 14.22% hit + 3/3 Precision: Fireball 0% (0/100)

i) 9.80% hit + 3/3 Precision: Frostfire Bolt (Rank 2) 0% (0/100)
j) 9.80% hit + 3/3 Precision: Frostfire Bolt (Rank 1) 0% (0/100)
k) 4.00% hit + 3/3 Precision: Frostfire Bolt (Rank 1) 6% (6/100)

That points at at least 7% hit from Precision for Frostfire Bolt. Really really odd.

Samuel · 10/06/08, 7:05 AM

Originally Posted by andastra

Why are you dividing evocation return by 2 for a 10 minute fight? The cd is 5 minutes, which means you could use it 3 times.

Also, 450*1.1 is only 495, so your first example should only have 307.68 mp5.

Lastly, JoW restores 49.5 mana every 4 seconds with the extra 2475 mana. For mp5, it should be multiplied by 5/4 instead of 4/5, resulting in 61.875 mp5.

I was still thinking about the current 8 minute cooldown so you are right but using it 3 times in one ten minute fight sounds kind of silly and even using it twice would probably mean you wouldn't be getting replenishment in a 25 man some of the time so some of these hypotheses about maximum regen from int are mutually exclusive to some extent.

Also, Student of the Mind is the 10% spirit talent so that is 450 * 1.1 * 1.1 with BoK so the number is right if we want to maximize talents just for comparison.

Lastly, JoW restores 2% of your total mana so 49.5 mana for the extra 2475 mana on every attack that hits and at most once every 4 seconds. With fireball that would be once every 6 seconds assuming haste cancels out lag and hit is maxed out. With frostbolt and arcane blast once ever 5 seconds. I don't see how a mage could get JoW once every 4 seconds. Roywyn used the 6 second assumption I think and that sounded reasonable as fire is expected to be the dps raiding spec again.

Stormhole · 10/06/08, 7:09 AM

The problem with not using molten armor is that the way glyphs work, it is a loss of 5% to crit.

If anything, I'd go 18/53/0 or 2/51/18 rather than 14/51/6 or 14/50/7 so that I never have to run mage armor.
Hit is very easy to come by and if you are 14 deep into arcane, it is better to take 1 filler and go for meditation rather than take 5 fillers to get to 1 or 2 points of precision.

Xentropy · 10/06/08, 7:17 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Taking that 0/53/18 mage out of the chain means he loses 6% personal crit, which is a decent estimate for him and someone else losing 3% crit.

I'm confused by this statement. Is Simcraft allowing the buff and the proc to both be present on the same mage at the same time? I thought the purpose of the Focus Magic circle jerk in the settings was just to ensure each mage gets 100% uptime on the 3% crit. If it's modeling 6% crit at all it's incorrect. In-game, the proc and the buff cannot be present on the same player at the same time.

Alvira · 10/06/08, 7:28 AM

I think its not so easy to model the true DPS potential of arcane specs at this point because we are not sure about how the mana situation will be resolved. Blizz said they weren't happy with mage mana sustainability. So, they will lower the mana cost of spells. How that will work out for arcane depends.

If arcane blast spammed until you reach the third debuff is strictly superior DPS than any other spec but not sustainable for the whole boss fight. Then arcane has something to dump mana into if it has excess mana.

If a 2.5 second empowered arcane missile cast is strictly higher DPS than any frostfire bolt cast over 3 seconds. Then again, this is something that arcane gains with missile barrage.

Plus, there are also all the arcane power, arcane potency and POM talents, etc etc. All of which can be combined with trinkets, etc for further timed synergy. Deep arcane spec doesn't need their frostfire bolts to be the same equivalent damage as a deep fire spec's. It just needs to be slightly behind. Then, the other aspects of deep arcane, with its missile barrage procs, AP fueled AB spam, arcane barrage on the move, will then possibly be able to help it be competitive.

All this is up in the air at the moment because we don't know how much Blizz will change the mana costs of the spells. But from my perspective, frostfire bolt is already one of the more efficient spells we have. So, a deep arcane mage can use the excess mana saved while it is spamming frostfire, and dump it all into AP AB spam at the end. It would be like the arcane specs of old where you had to manage your mana because AB spam all the time wasn't possible. I am keen to see if this type of spec would work out once we have a clearer picture of the mana situation for mages.

Pintofbrew · 10/06/08, 7:33 AM

Alvira, that's all mostly true, but can you back numbers that MBAM, AP, 6% haste (etc.) are superior to an FFB spec with the more conventional 0/51/18+2, or indeed any other spec. 13% fire damage, i-scorch instead of focus magic, molten fury and hot streak are quite a compelling, and proven, package.

Roywyn · 10/06/08, 7:34 AM

Originally Posted by Xentropy

I'm confused by this statement. Is Simcraft allowing the buff and the proc to both be present on the same mage at the same time? I thought the purpose of the Focus Magic circle jerk in the settings was just to ensure each mage gets 100% uptime on the 3% crit. If it's modeling 6% crit at all it's incorrect. In-game, the proc and the buff cannot be present on the same player at the same time.

Simcraft currently does that. And it's good that way.

Because, what does Focus Magic do? It adds 3% crit to you and to someone else.
So, in order to measure to gain of Focus Magic we can:
a) Give every mage a personal additional dummy (like 0/53/18) whom he can cast focus magic on or not and then calculate the difference between this dummy and another dummy who does not have Focus Magic which is the gain of Focus Magic on the primary target and add this DPS difference to the mage's DPS gain or
b) Simply allow the mages to buff each other.

Xentropy · 10/06/08, 7:47 AM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Simcraft currently does that. And it's good that way.

See, I disagree that it's good that way. The concept of this kind of theorycrafting is seen as comparing personal dps numbers, NOT rdps contribution. Someone looking at the list from outside would almost definitely think, "Okay, and in addition to these dps amounts, the boomkin is adding 13% of the dps of everyone else in the raid, the shaman is adding 280 spellpower to everyone, the mages are adding 3% crit to one other person..."

Oops, they're wrong on the last part, and there's nowhere in the list that says, "This doesn't include raid dps contributions...oh, wait, except for the mages. The 3% crit for someone else from Focus Magic is already baked in."

It needs to be consistent. Either include all rdps contributions in the listed dps for the contributor or none of those "extras". Personally I'd rather include none of them; people can and should figure out the contributions of utility separately.

Making sure the proc is up on the mages 100% of the time: Good. It will be in most real raiding situations anyway. Doubling the proc because it also includes utility: Bad. No other utility is baked in that way and it adds possible confusion without starting to add disclaimers to the bottom of every chart that this utility's already there but that utility isn't.

Roywyn · 10/06/08, 7:57 AM

Originally Posted by Xentropy

See, I disagree that it's good that way. The concept of this kind of theorycrafting is seen as comparing personal dps numbers, NOT rdps contribution. Someone looking at the list from outside would almost definitely think, "Okay, and in addition to these dps amounts, the boomkin is adding 13% of the dps of everyone else in the raid, the shaman is adding 280 spellpower to everyone, the mages are adding 3% crit to one other person..."

Oops, they're wrong on the last part, and there's nowhere in the list that says, "This doesn't include raid dps contributions...oh, wait, except for the mages. The 3% crit for someone else from Focus Magic is already baked in."

It needs to be consistent. Either include all rdps contributions in the listed dps for the contributor or none of those "extras". Personally I'd rather include none of them; people can and should figure out the contributions of utility separately.

Making sure the proc is up on the mages 100% of the time: Good. It will be in most real raiding situations anyway. Doubling the proc because it also includes utility: Bad. No other utility is baked in that way and it adds possible confusion without starting to add disclaimers to the bottom of every chart that this utility's already there but that utility isn't.

13% CoE/Plague/EaM is a raid buff that should always be up. If not, someone respecs.
It's unique, only 1 of that can be up at a time.

3% Focus Magic is only for 1 Person and yourself. It's not raid wide. It's stackable in the sense of everyone can spec it and cast it on someone else (unless mages are more than 50% of your casters, or casters+healers).

Imagine Focus Magic would only be castable on another person and not proc.
Your logic would then dictate "not going to spec it because it adds no damage".

It's like speccing Frost without Water Elemental because it doesn't increase your damage, only rDPS.

Xentropy · 10/06/08, 8:09 AM

So basically you feel stacking utility should be included but not non-stacking utility. I can understand the line you're drawing personally, but the question is does everyone that sees the charts think that same way? I certainly didn't until you made the bug in Simcraft clear to me in your earlier post--I was adding 3% on top of the mage values to figure on the fact they were also adding a little something to the raid. Most people looking at and copy-pasting these charts all over the place seem to be considering these numbers what you'd see on Recount in-game from the perfect fight played perfectly...but while in every other case that's true, mages with Focus Magic will show up 3% lower than "expected" in-game.

It's also a question to ask Blizzard. They say they don't want utility to affect dps anymore. Is dps going to be balanced with or without the extra 3% utility portion of this talent? If without, and they meet their dps-matching goals, mages will "look" 3% better on every Simcraft chart. If balanced including the utility because it stacks, and they meet their dps-matching goals, mages will "look" 3% worse in every WWS parse.

I'd rather see the bug fixed (and it IS a bug; Simcraft is supposed to model real game mechanics, and real game mechanics do not allow the proc to stack with the buff) and the additional dps of the utility tacked on elsewhere, so we're really comparing apples to apples, and being more transparent to those who are just browsing the graphs and not digging as deeply as the people posting in this thread.

Your logic would then dictate "not going to spec it because it adds no damage".

And THIS is just ridiculous. If Earth and Moon didn't have the "selflessness" portion of the effect, would you expect boomkins to simply not spec it? WoW players are NOT as selfish as that comment makes them out to be. There are talents which are worth having and DO have rdps effect but which should NOT show up on a theorycrafted personal dps list because it's just that: A model of personal dps. Utility is considered separately by most people perusing these lists.

The water elemental, as a pet, is under the mage's personal control, and thus has its dps included in the mage's personal total. It's an entirely different case. But mentioning pets does lead me to consider another stacking rdps buff. Ferocious Inspiration still works just as it does in TBC, 3% bonus damage for party members on pet crits. It's only party, not raid, but it DOES stack--every BM hunter is bringing more raid damage due to it--so should hunter numbers on a dps graph like this include their personal benefit from FI multiplied by 5 to cover the dps added to the rest of their party? I'd argue most people wouldn't expect such a calculation to be included.

Søndag · 10/06/08, 8:14 AM

Originally Posted by Xentropy

See, I disagree that it's good that way. The concept of this kind of theorycrafting is seen as comparing personal dps numbers, NOT rdps contribution. Someone looking at the list from outside would almost definitely think, "Okay, and in addition to these dps amounts, the boomkin is adding 13% of the dps of everyone else in the raid, the shaman is adding 280 spellpower to everyone, the mages are adding 3% crit to one other person..."

Oops, they're wrong on the last part, and there's nowhere in the list that says, "This doesn't include raid dps contributions...oh, wait, except for the mages. The 3% crit for someone else from Focus Magic is already baked in."

It needs to be consistent. Either include all rdps contributions in the listed dps for the contributor or none of those "extras". Personally I'd rather include none of them; people can and should figure out the contributions of utility separately.

Making sure the proc is up on the mages 100% of the time: Good. It will be in most real raiding situations anyway. Doubling the proc because it also includes utility: Bad. No other utility is baked in that way and it adds possible confusion without starting to add disclaimers to the bottom of every chart that this utility's already there but that utility isn't.

If people look at the dps numbers without understanding what the numbers represent, then we could just as well stop theorycrafting. The builds we use right now to test which talents works how well in a raid setting, do not represent anything you can be sure to be playing at lvl 80 in raids. We have no idea how these build work with aggro and there are probably a whole lot of parameters that we can't simulate in simcraft or spreadsheets. What we can to is pick a setting and try to finetune within those parameters, and right now we are looking at the highest possible raid dps. We could try to model single player dps, but since raiding is a group activity i think that would be just a misleading as looking at the bestcase scenario.

◊ manly · 10/06/08, 8:21 AM

Originally Posted by Søndag

Simcraft Mage Scoreboard

No offense here, but the build you use aren't realistic.
Deep fire with no imp. scorch ? C'mon now.
21/50/0 just to get 3/3 arcane meditation ?
None of the builds taking aoe utility talent ? Sure, I don't like DB, but that doesn't means I'd ditch the talent for some infinitesmall sustenance upgrade. Or Living Bomb for that matter.
Unclear which build uses molten and which use mage armor ?
20/40/11 ... ? And with 1 pt in scorch ???

A lot of your builds skip things like flame throwing, which I think is fine for FFB spam, but nothing else. I was almost starting to wonder when you would start modeling builds without burning soul. Seriously, there isn't a single one of the builds modeled I'd even consider playing at all.

Lets get realistic here. Theres more than just single target dps, but theres an obvious bias for it.

20/51/0 - fireball/ffb spam with flame throwing 2/3 arcane med. 3/3 TTW - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000
20/51/0 - ffb spam without flame throwing 2/3 arcane med. 3/3 TTW - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

0/53/18 - ffb spam with flame throwing - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000
0/53/18 - ffb spam without flame throwing - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

0/53/18 - fireball spam + ffb dot refresh (this build is kind of experimental, mostly intended to check how good the ffb dot is) - http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...00000000000000

Then if TTW doesn't works on bosses, then make the same builds but move the 3pt TTW into 3/3 arcane med. and then, in this priority list: dragon's breath, world in flames. Whether or not points should be moved to db/world in flames is highly debatable since its still good for trash. I'd probably just go for 3/3 arc. med., DB, then TTW.

Originally Posted by Roywyn

3) Rune of Razorice adds 5% frost damage for all players and stacks with Ebon Plague (13% CoE).

So much for raid consolidation.
<insert comment about how stupid this is>

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Simcraft currently does that. And it's good that way.

Because, what does Focus Magic do? It adds 3% crit to you and to someone else.
So, in order to measure to gain of Focus Magic we can:
a) Give every mage a personal additional dummy (like 0/53/18) whom he can cast focus magic on or not and then calculate the difference between this dummy and another dummy who does not have Focus Magic which is the gain of Focus Magic on the primary target and add this DPS difference to the mage's DPS gain.

Using the same logic shouldn't any build applying 10% world-wide crit jump the mage crit rate to 100% ?

I realize its just semantics, but I'm not a huge fan of that kind of modeling. Its dps + extra utility, good thing if you can give 3% more dps to a non-mage, but if you plan to circle-jerk mages to go from 97% uptime to 100% uptime then its not very fair to consider focus magic as a flat 6% more crit.

---------------
I was thinking about it about the mana changes posted by blues. While it isn't a fix, I think the strongest argument going against it is that this fix does nothing to address the relatively weak mage aoe possibilities. Or rather, it does nothing to help mages sustain aoe dps. The mana cost reduction should also address aoe spells, since its particularly in those fights where mages struggle.

Xentropy · 10/06/08, 8:25 AM

Originally Posted by Søndag

We could try to model single player dps, but since raiding is a group activity i think that would be just a misleading as looking at the bestcase scenario.

But the point I'm trying to make is that these numbers are supposed to be what Recount would show while in a group, under the effects of group utility. So utility should be affecting the people that the utility is affecting, not the people that are bringing the utility. I'd rather see Focus Magic modeled as +3% crit to every caster in the raid (because these are ideal settings we're talking about here; and in the ideal case for a given caster, they're the target of the group's mage's Focus Magic) than as +6% crit to the mages and 0% to everyone else. No, it's not "realistic", but no one's expecting theorycrafting numbers to be reachable in real gameplay. What it is, though, is more indicative of the true effect of the ability on casters and relative potential caster strengths.

macbeet · 10/06/08, 8:32 AM

Some Posters mentioned the pain of changing armor because without glyphs, armors perform sub par, and we do not have enough glyph slots to buff both of them. But the production cost of glyphs is rather slim, about a stack of felweed for [Glyph of mage armor] and a few northrend herbs for molten. So clearly money is not the issue here, rather convenience.

If you want to, you can probably equip the molten glyph, cast molten, equip mage armor glyph and still enjoy the full 5% crit.
Wonder if anyone has tried that.

Xentropy · 10/06/08, 8:35 AM

Originally Posted by macbeet

If you want to, you can probably equip the molten glyph, cast molten, equip mage armor glyph and still enjoy the full 5% crit.
Wonder if anyone has tried that.

This wasn't as big a deal (merely a minor cost in gold, as you say) before they implemented the Lexicons of Power. Now you can't just carry stacks of each glyph on you and swap at will; you have to port to town to swap. It's as inconvenient to the raid as a respec. So the issue isn't as much one of cost as one of time and inconveniencing your raid by potentially asking for a resummon every other boss.

The above idea is an interesting one, though. It's something worth testing for trivia's sake if nothing else, and I suspect the glyph's effect will remain on already-cast buffs even after removal of the glyph.

To the below, there is a one hour cooldown, but as of a few builds ago there is an additional requirement to be in a major city near an inscription trainer to install new glyphs as well.

Ulthwithian · 10/06/08, 8:35 AM

Mac: I thought there was a cooldown on the glyphs to prevent this type of circumventing of the system?

If not, this can only be classified as a bug.

Søndag · 10/06/08, 8:43 AM

Originally Posted by manly

No offense here, but the build you use aren't realistic.
Deep fire with no imp. scorch ? C'mon now.
21/50/0 just to get 3/3 arcane meditation ?
None of the builds taking aoe utility talent ? Sure, I don't like DB, but that doesn't means I'd ditch the talent for some infinitesmall sustenance upgrade. Or Living Bomb for that matter.
Unclear which build uses molten and which use mage armor ?
20/40/11 ... ? And with 1 pt in scorch ???

A lot of your builds skip things like flame throwing, which I think is fine for FFB spam, but nothing else. I was almost starting to wonder when you would start modeling builds without burning soul. Seriously, there isn't a single one of the builds modeled I'd even consider playing at all.

I know! but i had to start somewhere, and i might as well start off using the models yilding the highest theoretical dps. Almost none of these builds would be playable right now, since they lack stuff you would want for utility, playability or aggro management. There is a mage setup with a fire mage doing his own scorching, and there is one depending on the raid slave keeping scorch and slow up on targets. It's my goal to have every aspect shown in the chart, but i had to start somewhere, and i might as well go with the build people had already seen the results in simcraft from. It's going to be a lot of work getting all build set up in the different scenarios, and i collect all the builds/advice and ideas postet here so i can include them when i get to that part.