Lhivera

Definitely worth suggesting; I'd support the same thing. +5/10/15 seconds duration, -25/50/75% damage taken from AOE effects.

It results in all kinds of stupid interactions, too. I already posted about one of them: why would you buy a glyph to increase the duration of your Ice Armor from 30 to 60 minutes when all that does is save you one cast? Is any amount of gold or even silver worth saving 930 mana once an hour?

Then think about Slow Fall. Removes the reagent cost of Slow Fall. How often do you really use it? How cheap would the glyph have to be to save you more than the cost of an hour's worth of light feathers?

At Veridian Dynamics, we can even make radishes so spicy, people can't eat them. But we're not, because people can't eat them.

 

Kopalec

Yeah Lhiv, after thinking about the points you brought up in the 1 hour duration, maybe I am merely misunderstanding what the 1 hour duration listed in the tooltip relates to. I'll attempt to seek out someone leveling up Inscription to clarify.

 

Last_Human

My understanding of it was the '1 hour' was a cooldown on swapping the glyph rather than a duration.

I never suggested using Frostbolt + DF would be a good use of a two charge FoF proc in PvE, it was mentioned for PvP reasons.

 

dieseledge

Hasn't the mana cost has been reduced? Slow is now a 12% base mana cost. Poly is 7% and Arcane blast is 9%

 

Xentropy

You're right. I completely missed that. It's actually pretty good as-is now.

<Removed list of "new" glyphs. Were on original list, just didn't get much attention.>

Just checked the inscription trainer, and at the moment every single glyph in the game is Major. I'm hoping they just did that to get them all in and will make a pass later to make some Minor rather than adding Minor glyphs that are even more useless than some of these current ones and leaving these Major. There really is a vast difference in power levels between some glyphs and others, even taking PvP into account.

Edit: Found a friendly inscriber who gave me a Glyph of Blink and Glyph of Arcane Missiles to test with. There appears to be no way to disable a glyph without removing it, which destroys it, like a gem. The 1 hour cooldown listed on the glyph items seems to have no real meaning. Glyphs currently are VERY cheap, basically costing about 1g in vendor-bought materials and a couple mageroyal each, even for high level glyphs, but it seems apparent to me that Blizzard just added all glyphs with base costs and will modify mats later.

Glyph of Frostbolt is thusly still completely BROKEN as-implemented due to an excessive drawback, and how much of a problem this is depends on the final material cost of the glyph to buy a new one every raid.

 

Carnivean

If you look at the recipes, they are all the exact same thing.
So the glyphs are in the game, so that the mechanic of the glyphs can be tested, but it looks like there wasn't enough time to implement all the recipes and to categorize them or maybe it wasn't high priorioty.

 

Prom

wow, Hot Streak is pretty decent now. Actually too good to be true, since scoring 2 criticals in a row is pretty common but 3 is very rare, and of course the gain of an instant Pyroblast could be higher than that of another guaranteed crit.

They must find it difficult....
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority.

 

◊ manly

Totem of Wrath (Rank 4)
"Summons a Totem of Wrath with 5 health at the feet of the caster. The totem increases the damage done by spells and effects by 160 for all party and raid members, and increases the critical strike chance of spells and effects by 3% against all enemies within 40 yards. Lasts 2 min."

Well, thats just too bad for focus magic.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Xentropy

Keep in mind Glyph of Totem of Wrath also adds 1% haste to ToW, and given it's costing shamans a major glyph slot, I suspect this 1% haste WILL stack with other haste buff effects. If it doesn't, it's a glyph that'll be passed on nearly always.

Gives arcane mages their GCD's back, though. An elemental shaman and a moonkin are pretty much present in EVERY well-stacked raid, given how many different buffs they cover between them, as qbert and I's raid-stacking exercises showed. (Don't HAVE to, but it takes 4-5 different characters to cover what those 2 could cover on their own, and it's easier to keep a ToW down than Focus Magic up.)

 

Prom

Doesn't really matter since Demonic Pact will override them, it's much more powerful.

They must find it difficult....
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority.

 

Celani

Exactly. Focus magic is now a PvP talent for 2's and 3's.

 

Xentropy

The issue is it won't be up 100% of the time. In fact, unless warlock crit rating gets transferred to their pets somehow (I know that doesn't happen with water elementals) pet crits will be somewhat rare and uptime will be maybe 50% at best. ToW is the fallback for when demonic pact isn't proc'd, since it has 100% uptime and is 10 spelldamage higher than the next best spell with possible 100% uptime, Focus Magic.

Further testing with glyphs, got a second glyph of arcane missiles from my friendly neighborhood inscriber, and the cooldown goes into effect when using one, so if you use one, then immediately (or within 1 hour) destroy it, you have to wait for the cooldown to finish to add another of the same glyph.

E.g. Adding a Glyph of Blink and a Glyph of Arcane Missiles one after another is fine. However, adding a Glyph of Arcane Missiles puts a second Glyph of Arcane Missiles on a 1 hour cooldown. Destryoing the AM glyph you just added means you can't replace it with the same glyph for one hour. It's sort of a silly mechanic, since the chances of wanting to add the glyph you so recently added again are low. Unless you can add two of the same glyph to double an effect. I'll test that when my cooldown is up on these AM glyphs.

Edit: Nope, can't use two of the same glyph. Didn't expect so, but had to check.

 

Prom

Well it's also another tool for 5 mans and 10 mans. Most of us here only care about 25man raiding, but let's not forget that Blizzard is focusing very much on these 2 aspects of the game because it's directed at more casual players, the largest group of playes in WoW.

I never expected much from Focus Magic and it's better than having some useless wand talent taking up space.

They must find it difficult....
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority.

 

snwborder52

hell yeah it is.

It's pretty amazing for PvP. Combine it with Combustion, the Scorch Change, and the Scorch/Fireblast Glyphs, you can get a Combustion>Scorch>Living Bomb>DB>Fireblast combo, and that will possibly get you 2 reliable crits (depending if DB crits. If it does, then fireblast will definatley crit). You gonna have a really good chance at instant pyros. And if everything goes well, you can have an instant pyro with an insane crit chance (being on the third charge of combustion).

 

KnThrak

There's a specific talent for this:
Improved Demonic Tactics - Spell - World of Warcraft

SQUEAK.
-- (The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)

 

Prom

Yes it's 1 hour CD once you use a specific glyph so that you can reapply it. My glyph hasn't "run out" after 1 hour and it seems to be permanent like a gem until you have removed it.
Currently scorch glyph seems to be bugged; only applies 1 scorch debuff on every cast.

They must find it difficult....
Those who have taken authority as the truth,
rather than truth as the authority.

 

Shadout

Too many +spelldmg buffs which doesnt stack. Blizz should make a "Minor spelldmg" caategory and a "Major spelldmg" category imo (like Armor reduce). Have for example Priest spirit talent and Focus Magic in one (maybe reduce FM a bit to make it actually 'minor'), and then Demonic Pact + ToW + Flametongue as major (or any other combination you could imagine).

5 buffs which isnt stacking only makes most of those buffs useless in any situation, even for 10 mans.

 

◊ manly

Level 80 mana costs -- updated 30 august

*** = changed values

Arcane Blast - 9%, 294 *** (down from 40%)
Arcane Barrage - 18%, 588
Fireblast - 21%, 686
Fireball - 21%, 686
Frostfire Bolt - 16%, 522
Scorch - 8%, 261
Frostbolt - 15%, 490
Ice Lance - 7%, 228
Deep Freeze - 8%, 261

Shadowbolt - 17% (cheaper than fireball, go figure)


Arcane Explosion - 25%, 817
Arcane Missiles - 34%, 1111
Focus Magic - 784 *** ('down' from 1000 mana)
Mana Shield - 7%, 228
Polymorph - 7%, 228 *** (down from 12%)
Slow - 12%, 392 *** (down from 20%)
Spellsteal - 20%, 653
Remove Curse - 8%, 261
Blink - 21%, 686
Counterspell - 9%, 294
Invisibility - 16%, 522

Flamestrike - 53%, 1732
Blastwave - 28%, 915
Dragon's Breath - 31%, 1013
Living Bomb - 31%, 1013 *** (down from 37% if my previous data was correct, which seems somewhat dubious)
Pyroblast - 22%, 718

Blizzard - 74%, 2418
Cone of Cold - 29%, 947
Frostnova - 8%, 261
Ice Barrier - 25%, 817
Water Elemental - 16%, 522

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Xentropy

Mana cost reductions from glyphs are multiplicative, not additive, with reductions from talents. I beileve this was expected.

Confirmation:
Arcane explosion at level 70 cost = 560
+ Frost channeling = 504
+ Glyph of Arcane Explosion = 453

Original cost * 0.9 * 0.9, not Original cost * 0.8.

 

Deathcall20

Im wondering how long will the new Hot Streak last. At a first glimpse it looks that it might become a bit too powerfull. Anyone knows if it currently exists a CD on the talent? Or every 2 crits in a row in any time space always score an instant pyro?

With Scorch having even 6% more crit from talents it will be very easy to score to 2 crits in a row making this talent some what spammable. Even with Fireball 2 crits arent that hard.

Having Living Bomb costs reduced as much as possible is always a good thing but its looking more and more like mages will get a very expensive DoT

Oh yeah and we still havent got our new spell on this build :S

 

spliff

hot streak stuff:

hot streak procs only from fireball, scorch or frostfire bolt.

hot streak has no internal cooldown as it seems. i spammed some stuff at dr. boom. pretty nice, many instant pyros left my burning hands. :-)

edit:
i did upload a small video on youtube, showing the finally working "fingers of frost" and "brain freeze" talents in part 1, and the new "hot streak" in part 2. the quality is "youtubic". http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb5HYD_HxKY

 

Roywyn

New Hot Streak:
I don't have an explicit formula. There is an easy recursion though.

T_i = chance to have Hot Streak proc within the first "i" casts, c = crit chance.
Then T_i = c*c*(1-c)*(1-T_{i-3})+T_{i-1}
Explanation:
Either you had it proc just now - which means you've just had 2 crits (to proc), a non-crit before (or cast i-1 would have been procced), and no proc in the first i-3 casts. Or you've had it proc somewhen in the first i-1 casts.
Starting points are T_0 = T_1 = 0, T_2 = c*c, T_3 and more according to the pattern.

The average wait for a HS proc then is AWT = sum{i*(T_i-T_{i-1}); i = 1 to inf).

Average wait time depending on crit is then:
10% - 104 casts, 20% - 20 casts, 30% - 14 casts, 40% - 9 casts, 50% - 6 casts, 67% - 4 casts, 77% - 3 casts, 100% - 2 casts.

If Pyroblast is unchanged at 115% DD scaling (confirm/deny) and if there were no Ignite losses, then Hot Streak would be roughly a 7.7% DPS increase of at 50% crit, 5.3% at 40%, 3.5% at 30% crit.
If you're under 30% with fire talents and Winter's Scorch, you're doing something very wrong.

[Edit]: That's ignoring the 4*5% DoT part and the difference in FB/Pyro base damage and the 5% Fireball Glyph and 4T6.
It basically assumes "1 Pyro = 1 Fireball" as a very simple first estimate.
On the other hand, when HS procs, you already started casting a new Fireball, so you always cast 1 Fireball more between HS procs than necessary.


Hot Streak is much better than before, and does actually improve crit scaling.
In the relevant bracket (30%-100% crit), it offers pretty much exactly 2.5% DPS for every 10% crit gained (on top of the gain from critting more often).

Napkin math (at 60, doesn't matter) - 10% crit costs 140 rating. 140 rating is 14% haste. 14% haste - 2.5% Hot Streak gain = 11.5% DPS.

So, with Hot Streak, 10% crit has to compete with only 11.5% haste in terms of rating on gear/gems/etc.
Bearing in mind that mana may actually be useful resource, it's time to break the "crit is shit" mantra we've preached.

I'm not claiming that it's good or better than haste, but it's shaping up much better now.

Don't do that. Just, don't.
It would require that Scorch does at least 78% of Fireball's DPS, which may even happen when you're naked.
Even then, you need 94% (100%) crit to make it better than Fireball spam.


Hot Streak may cause Pyroblast Ignite losses due to being instant.
Would be nice if someone could test this a bit.


Also updated the mana cost link.
Blast Spam looks very sustainable now. Reserving further Judgement until I update my sheets which will take a while.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Slander

I am not at all convinced pyroblast will cause you to lose ignites when it's substituting for fireblast, simply because it has a travel time although I could have gotten it all wrong on how that bug actually works. Can't test it at the moment though, 15/100% :x

oh and I suppose you will cast fb/ffb right after a hot streak procc due to reactions and then use pyroblast on the fourth spell which basically mean you need 2 crits in a row to trigger hot streak, the next fb/ffb to crit and the pyroblast incoming after to crit as well in order to potentially lose ignites which is even a worse procc rate than old hot streak, although the chance still exists if I'm wrong about the travle time not allowing for loss of ignites.

 

Mithr

If the spell will crit or not is calculated when the spell is launched, not when the spell land (that why you can have shatter combos even if your nova is dispelled during the travel time). Thereby, there is no difference (i think) between a fireblast and an instant pyroblast concerning the ignite creation.

However, it is obviously better to test that.

 

Slander

I know crit is calculated at finished cast but the spell doesn't actually crit until it reaches the target which I thought was the problem, where two firespells hits roughly at the same time and they both crit one will have it's ignite overwrote since there wasn't actually an ignite to add to before that. Although as I said I could have gotten it wrong.