Mage: Simple Questions/Simple Answers

◊ Boethius · 11/13/08, 2:24 AM

Welcome to the Mage Simple Questions thread. This thread is for all your simple questions which you expect to have simple answers and thus do not require their own thread.

Note that all forum rules still apply: we said simple questions, not stupid questions (which have no place on these forums). You're still expected to make a reasonable effort to find the answer yourself by searching and reading the threads and making use of spreadsheets and any other tools that may be available. If, however, you're fairly confident that your question is not easily answered with available information, but don't think it will generate sufficient discussion to require it's own thread, this is the place to ask.

diag · 11/13/08, 8:04 AM

Is there anyone level up fast enough to test [Blessed Wizard Oil] on a ILvl 77 weapon?

Weemuu · 11/14/08, 10:54 AM

It probably works on lvl 77 weapons. The one thing we know for sure is that nothing of the sort (oils, stones, etc) will not work on lvl 80 weapons.

Inoko · 11/14/08, 1:39 PM

Originally Posted by Weemuu

It probably works on lvl 77 weapons. The one thing we know for sure is that nothing of the sort (oils, stones, etc) will not work on lvl 80 weapons.

Sorry, you're a bit confusing here. "Nothing of the sort will not work on lvl 80 weapons" you say. I assume you mean "Nothing of the sort will work on level 80 weapons," instead?

◊ manly · 11/16/08, 10:06 AM

oils only work on items below a certain ilvl (180?) Basically, if your item is from northrend, its above that ilevel, so it wont work.

Mistopheles · 11/16/08, 2:26 PM

While leveling my frost mage I noticed that fingers of frost and frostbite almost ALWAYS proc together. It should only be a 15% chance that frostbite procs when fingers of frost does, and vice versa, right? But I see it almost 100% of the time, perhaps less due to mobs dying. Is this a known bug like the shatter on the second charge of FoF?

Arantes · 11/16/08, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Mistopheles

While leveling my frost mage I noticed that fingers of frost and frostbite almost ALWAYS proc together. It should only be a 15% chance that frostbite procs when fingers of frost does, and vice versa, right? But I see it almost 100% of the time, perhaps less due to mobs dying. Is this a known bug like the shatter on the second charge of FoF?

I've experienced FoF proc without Frostbite more often than not, in fact much more often than not. I'd say you're either seeing a lot of coincidences or not noticing when they proc on their own rather than when they happen to proc together.

Azrayne · 11/16/08, 2:35 PM

Been more or less out of the endgame since AQ, levelling up a new mage now, is there any particular profession selection that stands out as the obvious choice for highend play? I saw they've added all sorts of random perks to the various professions, I looked over it and the faithful tailoring/enchanting seemed like a solid choice, is there any obvious 'must have' that I've missed?

Dryssa · 11/16/08, 2:40 PM

Originally Posted by Azrayne

Been more or less out of the endgame since AQ, levelling up a new mage now, is there any particular profession selection that stands out as the obvious choice for highend play? I saw they've added all sorts of random perks to the various professions, I looked over it and the faithful tailoring/enchanting seemed like a solid choice, is there any obvious 'must have' that I've missed?

The WotLK profession thread

Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing provide the greatest raiding benefits at present, with the BOP gems and extra sockets they provide. Most other crafting professions are about equal in their benefits, with Tailoring being the weakest (it only provides cloak enchants, which have been shown to be less of a DPS increase than the other professions' incentives.) Gathering professions are, obviously, the weakest of the lot.

Roywyn · 11/16/08, 3:56 PM

Originally Posted by Arantes

I've experienced FoF proc without Frostbite more often than not, in fact much more often than not. I'd say you're either seeing a lot of coincidences or not noticing when they proc on their own rather than when they happen to proc together.

They always proc simultaneously, and it is working as intended. See first post of http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t30655-w...sion_part_two/
I'll try to get it unlocked to make that info clearer.

Originally Posted by Azrayne

Been more or less out of the endgame since AQ, levelling up a new mage now, is there any particular profession selection that stands out as the obvious choice for highend play? I saw they've added all sorts of random perks to the various professions, I looked over it and the faithful tailoring/enchanting seemed like a solid choice, is there any obvious 'must have' that I've missed?

See http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t30655-w...sion_part_two/

aikiwoce · 11/16/08, 4:09 PM

Originally Posted by Mistopheles

While leveling my frost mage I noticed that fingers of frost and frostbite almost ALWAYS proc together. It should only be a 15% chance that frostbite procs when fingers of frost does, and vice versa, right? But I see it almost 100% of the time, perhaps less due to mobs dying. Is this a known bug like the shatter on the second charge of FoF?

If you have 3/3 Frostbite and 3/3 Fingers of Frost, then 100% of your FoF procs will also be Frostbite procs. Because of this behavior, in a PvE build, you can move at least two points out of Frostbite. But, if you're talented into Imp Blizzard, you need to keep at least one point in Frostbite. This is due to the first tick of Blizzard not applying the chill effect like it should. This bug also breaks the Brain Freeze talent proc with Blizzard. In fact there are several other bugs either related to chill/snare effects in general, or one of the new proc based frost talents. That need to be addressed, but weren't acknowledged in Beta or Live.

I'll try to write up my thoughts on mage bugs, and maybe post them in their own special thread in the new forum if that seems appropriate.

Aidan · 11/17/08, 8:58 AM

Since 3.0.2 I am aware the old advice I used to follow (hit until capped > haste > damage > crit > int > sta > spi) is no longer valid. I've decided to use the RatingBuster addon to help me quickly analyse new gear when it drops but am at a loss for what values to assign to each stat. I am currently level 74. I'll be going frostfire (0/50/16) at 75 and plan on going 0/53/18, as I hear it's currently the dps king.

So my question is: What sort of values should I assign to each stat as a general rule of thumb based on a frostfire build?

Thanks in advance

Pasture · 11/17/08, 9:01 AM

My quick question:

Does the snare on frostfire bolt trigger torment the weak on ordinary mobs? I've tried testing it myself but the results have been inconclusive for me. I'm currently questing as arcane and I'd rather open with frostfire bolt to get my 12% damage buff rather than having to manually apply Slow.

aikiwoce · 11/17/08, 9:09 AM

Originally Posted by Pasture

My quick question:

Does the snare on frostfire bolt trigger torment the weak on ordinary mobs? I've tried testing it myself but the results have been inconclusive for me. I'm currently questing as arcane and I'd rather open with frostfire bolt to get my 12% damage buff rather than having to manually apply Slow.

Yes and no, it depends entirely on whether or not you're specc'd into Molten Fury. The current thinking is they weren't intended to stack, so their bonuses overwrite each other. But, the MF activation condition (under 35% health) prevents TtW's bonus from applying from 100%->35%. This is likely a bug, but we haven't gotten a response on how exactly it should be working.

Edit (Kinda Technical): Slow seems to bypasses the MF bug by actually applying the snared/ensnared flag directly. I think this flag is usually applied internally when a mob's movement speed is slowed (e.g. aura:mod speed slow). This is likely why Slow works against most raid Bosses when other snares fail.

Light4 · 11/17/08, 12:03 PM

on TtW

From my tests on live, Infectious Wounds works with TtW and can be applied to bosses, at least to those in the Nexus or Utgarde low level dungeons.
This is however counterintuitive, as it would mean that the best situation for a raid would be TtW specced mages and the requirement to bring an IW specced druide along. If I understand Blizzard correctly, this is exactly not what they intended.

aikiwoce · 11/17/08, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by Light4

on TtW

From my tests on live, Infectious Wounds works with TtW and can be applied to bosses, at least to those in the Nexus or Utgarde low level dungeons.
This is however counterintuitive, as it would mean that the best situation for a raid would be TtW specced mages and the requirement to bring an IW specced druide along. If I understand Blizzard correctly, this is exactly not what they intended.

They are not Boss level mobs. I.E. They do not have a skull for their level. Instance Boss levels in WotLK. Which means that they are not subject to the same limitations I previously mentioned.

Light4 · 11/17/08, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by aikiwoce

They are not Boss level mobs. I.E. They do not have a skull for their level. Instance Boss levels in WotLK. Which means that they are not subject to the same limitations I previously mentioned.

Is the list a list of bosses where the limitations apply or don't apply?
So basically all Bosses should qualify for testing purposes. I guess the best way to test would be either MC or Alterac Valley.

Valean · 11/17/08, 1:57 PM

Okay, forgive me if this is posted in one of the other threads, but I'm looking for a couple quick answers.

Does anyone have a link to a 0/53/18 spec? I've got a basic idea of what talents I want but I want to ensure I snag all the right ones.

Also, hit rating for the same spec. I know with the removal of the 1% we could never get, Fire hit rating went from 164 higher, but exactly how high did it go? I've heard a few different numbers thrown out but I'm looking for a raw hit rating without considering any other class or race talents/racials.

diag · 11/17/08, 2:17 PM

My guildie told me that focus magic can always be casted on mage only:

2 mages : A<-->B
3 mages : A-->B-->C-->A
etc.

In this perspective, focus magic is a 6 % crit talent (and you will never benefit another classes!), will it make FB dps higher than FFB?

Pasture · 11/17/08, 2:52 PM

Originally Posted by diag

My guildie told me that focus magic can always be casted on mage only:

2 mages : A<-->B
3 mages : A-->B-->C-->A
etc.

In this perspective, focus magic is a 6 % crit talent (and you will never benefit another classes!), will it make FB dps higher than FFB?

Focus magic can be cast on whoever you want to cast it on. No need for them to be mage though it's nice to exchange with another mage and get 6% rather than 3%. I often throw it on a Boomkin or Enhancement Shaman.

And given that frostfire has awesome crit modifiers crit will probably benefit it more than any other spell.

Roywyn · 11/17/08, 4:03 PM

Originally Posted by Valean

Does anyone have a link to a 0/53/18 spec? I've got a basic idea of what talents I want but I want to ensure I snag all the right ones.

Also, hit rating for the same spec. I know with the removal of the 1% we could never get, Fire hit rating went from 164 higher, but exactly how high did it go? I've heard a few different numbers thrown out but I'm looking for a raw hit rating without considering any other class or race talents/racials.

Just grab everything that increases Frostfire Bolt damage and mana efficency.
Fire side lets you choose between "World in Flames" and "BW+DB+stuff", or grab both and lose range/pushback talents (not advised).
Frost is Ice Shards, Icy Veins, Elemental Precision, Piercing Ice. And Frost Channeling for mana, but you may also want 1 point in Imp. Blizzard and 3 points in Shatter if you go for more AoE power on slowable/freezable and less mana efficiency.
Or you cut Fire down to 51 to get 20 points in frost to get those AoE talents.

A sample of 0/53/18 with garbabe AoE would be Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Mage WotLK thread has a whole section for hit rating.

Originally Posted by diag

In this perspective, focus magic is a 6 % crit talent (and you will never benefit another classes!), will it make FB dps higher than FFB?

Check the mage post, Rawr, Simcraft, Magegraf or my signature.

Originally Posted by Light4

TtW

From my tests on live, Infectious Wounds works with TtW and can be applied to bosses, at least to those in the Nexus or Utgarde low level dungeons.
This is however counterintuitive, as it would mean that the best situation for a raid would be TtW specced mages and the requirement to bring an IW specced druide along. If I understand Blizzard correctly, this is exactly not what they intended.

What did you test it on?

It definately doesn't trigger Torment on the elite harpy on Storm Peaks.
She's not slowable, Infected Wounds do apply, damage is not increased.

Which bosses did it increase damage on for you, and how exact was your testing?

Valean · 11/17/08, 5:28 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Just grab everything that increases Frostfire Bolt damage and mana efficency.
Fire side lets you choose between "World in Flames" and "BW+DB+stuff", or grab both and lose range/pushback talents (not advised).
Frost is Ice Shards, Icy Veins, Elemental Precision, Piercing Ice. And Frost Channeling for mana, but you may also want 1 point in Imp. Blizzard and 3 points in Shatter if you go for more AoE power on slowable/freezable and less mana efficiency.
Or you cut Fire down to 51 to get 20 points in frost to get those AoE talents.

A sample of 0/53/18 with garbabe AoE would be Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Mage WotLK thread has a whole section for hit rating.

Check the mage post, Rawr, Simcraft, Magegraf or my signature.

What did you test it on?

It definately doesn't trigger Torment on the elite harpy on Storm Peaks.
She's not slowable, Infected Wounds do apply, damage is not increased.

Which bosses did it increase damage on for you, and how exact was your testing?

Thanks for the help! One last question is spell rotation. Do I substitute FFB for Fireball in my Scorch x 5, Fireball x 7, Scorch x 1 rotation?

Sorry for sounding silly, I haven't raided seriously in about a year and lots of stuff has changed. I leveled to 80 as arcane but I've become frustrated with it.

Pheroz · 11/17/08, 6:34 PM

For the 0/53/18 Build that Roywyn Posted the single target boss DPS rotation is a little more complex then your used to, but it is still fairly simple.

Reapply Scorch before the debuff wears off, but as close to that time as possible.
If Living Bomb is not on the boss, reapply living bomb (as Mana allows, and use max mana consumables as needed to ensure that Mana allows)
If Hot Streak Has procc'd, cast an instant Pyroblast.
If not doing one of the 3 things above, spam Frostfire bolt.

Beyond that, there's cooldown management, movement issues and whatever other major issues you may have to contend with in an ingame, sustained DPS situation.

Jonny_Monroe · 11/17/08, 8:06 PM

I've been playing around with some FFb specs for instance and grinding and I've come across a point where I struggle to choose which tree's AoE I should be using.

-Blizzard's DPS is mad, but using it in solo situations requires 6 talent points I wouldn't otherwise take.
-Flamestrike, when stacking 2 ranks, is awesome DPS and most of the time I'm able to hit all mobs with it. I only really need 2 extra talent points to get it instant after a DB.
-Stacking both of the above in tanked, static AoE (like 4 mobs elite packs in violet hold) gives nice results but I'd rather cut the talents from either frost or fire and just focus on 1.
-I'm pretty sure my solo AoE won't be hurt from only using 1 of the above rather than both. Which leads me to:

Based on maths, anecdotal evidence or both; which AoE am I better off taking as Frostfire?

Fireflash38 · 11/18/08, 9:51 AM

Originally Posted by Jonny_Monroe

I've been playing around with some FFb specs for instance and grinding and I've come across a point where I struggle to choose which tree's AoE I should be using.

-Blizzard's DPS is mad, but using it in solo situations requires 6 talent points I wouldn't otherwise take.
-Flamestrike, when stacking 2 ranks, is awesome DPS and most of the time I'm able to hit all mobs with it. I only really need 2 extra talent points to get it instant after a DB.
-Stacking both of the above in tanked, static AoE (like 4 mobs elite packs in violet hold) gives nice results but I'd rather cut the talents from either frost or fire and just focus on 1.
-I'm pretty sure my solo AoE won't be hurt from only using 1 of the above rather than both. Which leads me to:

Based on maths, anecdotal evidence or both; which AoE am I better off taking as Frostfire?

Are you planning on AoE grinding? If not, then don't go for blizzard.

To get the full benefits of Blizzard, you need Permafrost, Imp Blizzard, Shatter, Ice Shards, Frostbite, Fingers of Frost, and Chilled to the Bone. No Frostfire spec will be getting those. Still, Blizzard is really powerful. so in instances with AoE, use Flamestrike to toss up the dot, then Blizzard, and repeat.