Lileith

If you assume the debuff slot isn't an issue (such as 10 or 25 with few debuff classes).

Would It be worth to use an other weapon (like a 400 sp one when you have 460) with that enchant , cast a couple spells until it procs (should have 95% proc with a glyphed scorch) and then switch back to your main weapon with +63 sp for the next 45 sec?

 

Enthorn

Lileith, all epic-quality PvE drops are unique, so it wouldn't be viable. You would only be able to have two PvP weapons or superior (blue) quality items with the two different enchants. Besides that, there's enough rotation problems to watch out for already, that switching a weapon back and forth isn't on my high priority list.

 

TrizzyDizzy

Regarding Frostfire Specs...

Simple Question: Is crit or haste ever a better attribute than damage on a 1 for 1 basis? At what point is this if so?

Simple Question: How does crit compare with haste on a 1 for 1 basis?

 

Exellia

Currently using [] and [], but according to Rawr, the [] should be a upgrade instead of the Naaru one, but do these stack? Share internal cd? Is it actually worth losing the Naaru for it?

 

Dragonp00

To reiterate TrizzyDizzy's questions, being more specific:

Simple Question 1: At what spell power (exact if possible) does Hit>Spell Damage?

There are conflicting messages in the main class discussion thread. One estimate was approx. 1600 spell power, another was 2000 spell power. This refers to the top 2 mage DPS specs: Fire/Frostfire.

Simple Question 2: At what spell power (exact if possible) does Haste and/or Crit overcome Spell Damage, after hit capped?

I'm not looking for the haste vs. crit debate as that is not only general but also talent specific. Simply put, I'm looking for a gemming/gearing order.

 

Thegoodman

I cannot find anything on this issue so I apologize if it has been covered.

Do Mirror Images benefit from Molten Fury?

 

◊ manly

they do not benefit from any talent at all. Not even bloodlust or totems. The only benefit is the spell damage they gain from us.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

tolembot

I capped myself at 342 hit rating (draenei) and then I read that if you have a moonkin / shadow priest in your raid their debuffs provide another 3% hit.

To maximize my raid DPS, is it the best idea to drop down to 262 hit rating since there will most likely always be a SP / Moonkin in the raid?

 

Thegoodman

The obvious answer is also the correct one, yes. Gear yourself to the typical max hit rating in your raid setup. If you are relying on a Boomkin, make sure he has Imp. Faerie Fire (I think that's the talent) for the 3% hit. The Boomkin talent tree is very bloated and I know some boomkin don't take this talent (but they obviously should).

 

Chira

The internal cds are individual, and they will stack if they are active at the same time. Is it worth it? I don't know 100%, but Rawr is pretty accurate. I personally do use the Forge Ember over my Shifting Naaru Sliver.

 

unrealnali

I can confirm this as well.

What's great is for fights that have tons of movement or 'breaks' like gothik where you're waiting for adds instead of straight DPS fights like patchwerk/thadius. If the internal CD is up one nuke is extremely likely to proc both at once, giving you a ridiculous spike in burst DPS. Whether or not this is worth stacking other CD's ontop of this is better or not remains to be seen and could be defendant on your playstyle.

 

◊ manly

You could also argue it the other way around. If you get a proc at the end of a wave, then you essentially get screwed by constant interrupts. It should tend to not occur though.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Rayeth

For everyone asking for exact values for this or that, please download Rawr. That will give you those exact values for any and all of your stats, and is tailored to your exact gear/buff/talent/raid setup.

There is even a thread in this subforum about how to configure it so that it won't value int over other stats and other very common problems.

 

Anaxo

There is no minimum level where hit is better than spellpower, because you always want to cap spell hit as a raider. It doesn't matter if you're at 600 spellpower, over 9000, or whatever have you. Even if you have a zillion spellpower, you'll still missing 17% of your spells against bosses if you don't have 446 hit rating (including talents and buffs.)

Now, if you're asking because you have 425 hit rating and trying to compare a two items, one which is 25 hit rating/20 spellpower and another is 10 hit rating/30 spellpower, that's something Rawr is better suited to answer.

 

Dragonp00

Anaxo, thank you for your response but I think your missing the point of my question. While it's true you do always want to cap spell hit as a raider, there must be some minimum level in which 1 point of hit>1 point of spell power.

A good example would be: If I'm sitting well below under hit cap (say around 200) and I have a choice of gear of +30 hit or +30 spell power, which one gives the most dps? If I'm already at 1100/1200/1300/or 2100 spell power. I'd assume 1100, I'd go with +30spell power, same for 1200/1300 but I'd also assume 2100 would be too much and would rather take the +hit (or not?).

To reiterate the question, at what point does 1 point of hit overcome 1 point of spell power?

Haste and Crit (Int too) are secondary to both so they are irrelevant.

 

Roywyn

Hit overtakes SP at 1.5k-2k spell power. Surprisingly depends on play style, gear, buff, debuffs.
Haste/Crit overtakes SP at 4k-5k spell power. Again depending on other stats.

If you insist on not capping hit before that, you'll bash your head against hard things with all the Scorch resists.

I did my very first beta raid as Arcane Blast spammer with 76 hit rating.
Read: The Arcane Blast debuff was dropping all the time. Potential for Brain Damage = High

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

PSGarak

Not necessarily true. Hit is a cheap DPS stat, but 1% of your damage may take a very small amount of spellpower at low gear levels. As Roywyn points out it makes your cycles smooth and reliable, and cuts down on the frustration, but you'd be surprised how often these frustrations simply don't stack up in DPS terms. For an affliction warlock, hitcapping shadowbolt is totally unnecessary because it doesn't do anything, and even hitcapping Haunt isn't all that great until you get some higher spellpower because the lost DoT damage ends up not being as much as you would think. I realize that for mages this may be different and you should chuck it into a model, but I think most of the fervor towards hit-capping is dogmatic and not (yet) supported with empirical or theoretical evidence.

Improved Scorch, obviously, is its own beast and will cause hit to override spellpower in all but the most degenerate of cases (you're the only caster DPS in a 10-man raid?). Arcane Blast, Living Bomb, instant-pyros, and so forth, should be appropriately modeled. Yeah, it's annoying, but if it's not actually better DPS... well, then you get to decide how hardcore of a min-maxer you are and whether you play for fun or winning (FYI, I would always hitcap haunt, even though I argue that it's not necessary, but bugger shadowbolt).

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Tomed

edit: totally wrong forum

 

Nemantopia

Actually, it's been modeled fairly well iirc, and because of the increase on hit rating needed for %-hit is not as much of a DPS increase as spellpower until the quoted amount above barring being the Scorch applier. It's like crit rating for FFB builds, the problem isn't that the stat isn't very desirable, it's that you get so little of the stat for the rating that spellpower trumps until it hits a certain peak. Simple analogy, in TBC, hit% was so inexpensive, it was like buying Ramen noodles instead of pasta for your Hungry-People-Fed quota. Clear winner in the amount of people you feed [regardless of how much they like the food]. But now the price has gone up so it's like buying brand-name pasta instead of generic: unless it's on sale, free, or with a bulk discount, it's not worth the buy until a certain amount of generic has already been purchased.

Okay, maybe not so simple.

 

• Seonid

Trinkets - "Use" vs "Proc" and Molten Fury

With the change to MF from 20% to 35%, I noticed on our first Sapph & Kel'T (Normal) kills that a boss can spend quite a larger proportion of the fight in "execute" range than previously. In the same timeframe you could potentially get one Use trinket in or perhaps 2 Proc's from one trinket instead, assuming standard 45 second CD. Currently I am favouring Proc trinkets over Use trinkets for that reason until I get the blatant "best in slot" ones.

I understand that this may not always be the case, but I was approaching it from the perspective of that unless you can accurately predict the fight duration, you are likely to get more 45 second slices into a given duration than 2 minute ones.

 

swiss

Deleted to aviod issues.

Appears my statement was wrong

 

Enthorn

Everything I have read and heard from players has said that this isn't true in the slightest, and I've never experienced it to be true myself. (Similarly, the fine writers over at wowwiki, namely, everyone, seem to disagree with this as well.) It is true that if your spell misses, you obviously won't be critting (and because of that, your chance to crit is lowered by your chance to hit, since, while 30% of your spells may crit, 2% of them might miss if not capped, and some fo those 2% would have been crits).

However, once the game determines that your spell has hit, I believe the only mechanic that has any say in whether the spell crits or not is your actual crit rating. I couldn't see it any other way. But if you have evidence to shed on this, I'm all ears.

 

Dustwhisper

Aren't you just talking around yourself/him there?

What you said just supports the two-roll theorem which most casters support. First it rolls a hit or a miss based on your chance to hit then if it rolls a hit it continues to roll if it's a crit or not based on your crit-chance.

 

Pasture

This is a good point. Check with your guild before you try to hit your cap. After checking with the Boomkins in my guild I found out neither of them were planning on picking up Improved Faerie Fire. On top of this our Feral tank stated Boomkins taking this talent actually interfere with Feral Tanking as they use Faerie Fire as a threat generator.

It's been suggested SP Misery can cause some interference too.

Either way I've found myself needing to cap for another 3% hit.

 

drowsy

Can anyone recommend a mod for tracking internal cooldowns of these proc-based trinkets? I never have a good feel for when they are coming up, and when or whether they'll be best stackable with veins/combustion and molten fury.