Enthorn

I interpret, "Internally the game rolls for a hit or miss on a spell. Then it rolls to see if it crits. The same modifier for hit applies to see if your crit hits," as saying that your spell hit determines whether or not a spell crits. In other words, you cast a spell, the game looks at your spell hit and determines whether your spell lands or misses. If it does land, the game then looks at your crit rating and uses your crit rating to determine whether the spell crits. If it does crit, it then looks at your hit rating to determine the chance of the crit landing. If the crit misses, you land a normal.

The reason I interpreted his words as saying that very thing is that I have heard that speculation from other players as well. And, seeing as how there is a section addressing it on wowwiki, it apparently is a topic that has come up for debate. At issue is:

1) Game roles to see if you hit or miss (based on hit chance)
2) If it hits: Game roles to see if your hit is normal or crit (based on crit chance)
3) If it crits: Game roles to see if your crit hits or misses (based on hit chance)

This last step is what I am addressing. I do not believe it is accurate. What I said, and what the wowwiki section says, however, is that hit indirectly affects crit due to the very notion that if you can't hit a mob, you can't possibly crit it either.

 

Lileith

There are 2 different rolls , but not 3 , you can see it easily with an exemple :

Stats : 50% crit , 90% hit (10% miss):

Out of 100 FrostfireArcaneWhatever bolts :


10 miss

45 crits

45 hits

Which means that even if my tooltip says 50% crit, i will only crit 45% of my bolts.

 

Enthorn

I'm not entirely sure what your example is supposed to address. Using your same example, and going by what you quoted me as saying, if you have a 45% crit rate and a 90% hit chance, and there was no RNG involved, then of the 100 casts, yes, 45 would crit, 45 would be non-crits, and 10 would miss. And of the 10 that missed, 5 of those would have been crits, and 5 would have been non-crits.

The statement, "The same modifier for hit applies to see if your crit hits. So even if your spell lands and you are not hit capped your crit may not land," however, would not appear to be accurate. I'm simply attempting to clarify this, as inaccurate information probably isn't a great thing to have in this "Simple Answers" thread, or any thread.

The statement implies that a critical hit can miss due to your hit rating. In other words, even if you had a 100% crit rate, you could score a non-scrit due to not being hit capped.

 

• Seonid

According to http://elitistjerks.com/f73/t36681-f...ar_megathread/ FF does add some threat but not a huge amount compared to the other aggro abilities Bear tanks have. Assuming they are tanking a raid boss, rage is typically not an issue so I would ask the question "Is the relatively small threat value from Bear FF enough to take 3% spell hit from every single dps caster in the raid ?".
Given the current TPS we are seeing from Tanks of all classes, I doubt it but that's a RL perspective.

 

◊ manly

But the top 5 best mage trinkets aren't on use ... I'm not sure I follow. Not to mention [Sundial of the Exiled]^is badges and [Forge Ember] is 5man stuff.

edit: in fact, the quick list of best trinkets
[Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
[Embrace of the Spider]
[Sundial of the Exiled]
[Forge Ember]
[Dying Curse]

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

• Seonid

I was speaking in general terms with regards to trinket types, Use vs Proc and the (effective) extended MF duration.
But yes I agree that list comprises of all Proc trinkets and re-reading my post I see the confusion as I was alluding to upgrade paths in that a Use trinket might be an upgrade from what you currently have, but replace with a Proc one when you actually get it.

 

Cowbird

Two quick questions. Is taking spell impact as a frost mage worth the three points for the 6% increase to the Brain Freeze fireball proc or is the increase so negligible as to not really make much of a difference?

Also

Every time I use the search function here I get either nothing at all or multitudes of threads that have to be waded through and end up having to read thread after thread making the search function rather useless. I have tried all different advanced search functions etc. Is there a trick to searching here that I am missing or do I have to spend literally hours on end to find the info I am looking for?

 

Enthorn

Cowbird, when you do a search, make sure you check "show results as posts" and not to show them as threads.

In regards to your frost question, there is a thread dedicated to Raiding as frost. Short answer: 18.0.53.

 

Brandox

Can anyone link a ss of their settings for Hot Streak on PowerAuras. I've spent the past two days working on it with no success!

 

inksy

Obviously in 25 man raids, fully buffed, with good gear the 0/43/18 Frostfire spec is the way to go. Is there ever a point where it makes more sense to use a Frost build in current 10 man PVE with low end gear (1200dmg, 12% base crit)?

 

Anobix

I don't directly think so inksy. With the addition of the 9% crit from fire talents + 5% from molten armor the dps would/should be higher if you went for a straight fireball build. With the decent amount of crit and such that you can get from items in heroics and from the trinkets that have been listed I would shoot for a fireball build then frostfire if you feel more comfortable that way. Then again there may be more info in the thread below called raiding as frost in wotlk.

 

Gohei27

Sorry if this has been answered else where but I couldn't find it. My question is in relation to the threat mechanic with MI and double spark during Malygos. One of our mages pulled aggro during a lusted/double spark and when I mentioned to them you can use MI to reduce the threat generated. They claimed there is a bug with MI and that the images can pull aggro. I found this hard to believe considering I was no where near the MT on threat and didn't believe that lusted images standing in double spark could possibly generate enough threat with their damage. Is this confirmed? Anyone else seen this?

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....37170zyBei.png

 

Prod

Do we have any word on the optimal way to do loatheb? Skip living bomb? Stand close/mid/far? I seem to have problems on this fight. Specifically by getting destroyed by 8+ thousand dps warriors.

 

Gohei27

I don't living bomb on loatheb, I assume it's best not to lose any time on 13k+ crits.

http://armory.mmo-champion.com.nyud....37170zyBei.png

 

Soulesss

I know there are many links and questions to the Rotation. I've tried to search and etc, and even TCOM lists 2 obvious Rotations:

(1) LB + 7FFB + SC
(2) LB + 5FFB

I understand the portion about scorching after HS Proc and Before Using Pyro as the assumption of one HS proc every 30 secs therefore keeping Scorch Debuff up.... but what i dont' understand is where the number "7" and "5" come from, between the LBs...

LB is 12 seconds (i read my tooltip again and again) ... and i'm confused when someone said LB was 15 seconds... and therefore the 5 FFBs.

After trying it, my cycle goes like this: (Assuming no haste), and for simplicity i will open with 2 x scorch to start with the debuff up:

LB(1.5) -> FFB1(4.5) -> FFB2(7.5) -> FFB3(11.0) -> FFB4(14.0) in which at this time LB goes off... and i Start again. Not to mention if HS procs in between, the Rotation is messed up and i will watch for my LB to go off before restarting the cycle.

So, my question is, where does the above 2 most talked about rotation come from? Is that assuming we have enough haste to shorten FFB to be a about 2.5 Second cast for Rotation (1). Even so, i still don't understand rotation (2)

So Really, is it some mathematical equation then arrived that a fixed rotation of 1 LB followed by 5FFB attains the optimum mps/dps number? Or is it just a general guide and the best way is to Alter our roation to Apply LB the Moment it explodes (Assuming no mana problem)?

Thanks in Advance.

 

snyft

i saw somebody posted the "best" gear for mages, anybody that want to list the "best" gear from 10man naxx and heroics?

 

Azirth

I have a spreadsheet nearly finished( just wands and trinkets to go )

Once i've completed it, and gotten some rough equivalence values, i'll post it in a new thread. Still have a bit of work to go though, and it probably will be finished sunday.

 

Zariss

Well this is my first post on the Forums. Glad to finally be able to post. Anywho, I was looking all over the Mage threads and while everyone is agreeing that FFB is the best Raiding DPS spec to go, I was just wondering if Arcane Concentration is even worth putting the points into for an FFB spec, or did it become kinda useless unless you're going deep Arcane? Just a little curious.

 

• Seonid

Why would you consider it ?
FFB has lower mana burn rate than fire and not that much more than frost, so Clearcasting is of little use particularly as you need 10 points in Arcane which you can't really take from anywhere else. MoE and/or Frost Channelling should cover you well enough anyway.

 

Maledict

No,it isn't at all. going arcane for FFB spec gives you 3% crit from focus Magic, 10% mana savings from Arcane Concentration and 30% of your spirit as in combat regeneration.

If you go deep frost instead, you gain Icy Veins, 100% more damage on crits, 6% more damage, and 10% mana reduction from frost channelling. You gian the same mana reduction, *far* more DPs benefits and an extra activated ability. You're already using the most mana efficient spec mages have by far, so the 30% regen in combat is usually wasted.

TL,DR - Arcane is useless for Frostfire specs in every way.

 

Systemtemp

Magic Resistance

I don't know if I missed the answer smw but is there a resistance cap? I mean after 400 resistance it is stated on the tooltip as "excellent" but what are the numbers for fully resist, partially resist. And what is the cap for resistance?

 

Masnie

The cap is moblevel * 5, so 415 for current Bosses. This does not mean that you will resist every spell though, that is just the point after which additional resistance will not have any effect as far as I know.

 

• Seonid

The damage reduction caps at 75% when at resist cap.

 

Thegoodman

With 416 Frost Resist I was still taking between 15 and 400 damage per tick against Sapphiron. I don't recall seeing even one full resist but I will try to get a WWS report for our next encounter.

I can confirm that neither Amplify Magic or Dampen Magic affect the periodic damage from the fight just like they have not been affected in the past. I would recommend Amplify Magic for the entire raid.

Is it possible Sapphiron has some spell penetration that makes full resists difficult/impossible?

 

Voliska

Hi all,
Long time lurker here. I finally started raiding 10-man Naxx and came across something that's been bugging me since last night's run. I'll post my armory link below, but here's the basics: 1531 damage, 264 hit, 11.05% crit, 20.05% crit fire. Working off of target dummies, I can push about 2k dps, give or take. Doing actual tank-and-spank bosses like Raz, I was only getting maybe 1400-1500 dps.

My spell rotation with Frostfire and Scorch glyphs:

LB, Sc, Sc, pop trinket, IV, MI, FFBx4 Fireblast, FFBx4, FB, pop second trinket, LB, etc. and hit Pyro for HotStreak when it procs, reapply scorch as needed.

The issue is that I can't understand why my DPS is lower than it should be. THere's a fellow mage in our guild with 1567 spell damage, only 67 hit but 22.15% crit that does over 2k damage. I haven't spoken to him yet, but I'm trying to figure out the difference between what I'm doing and what he's doing. His spec is frost, but I was under the impression that Frostfire was the better raid spec. Since I won't have a lot of time to talk to him before the raid tonight, I thought I'd post here and see what I might be doing wrong.

V

Flip's armory link:

The World of Warcraft Armory