Maledict

Well, for one thing, as you yoursel fsay - Frostfire is a raiding spec. It scales better than any other mage spec, and comparing it without the raid buffs that support it does mean it will perform less.

Also, not sure why you are fireblasting your rotation - I would really not expect this to be an increase in DPS at this stage of the game? It's certainly not healthy for your mana bar,

Also, no need to sign your posts, we can see who sent the message to the left. (This is a forum rule).

 

Lileith

If you are doing 2K dps without any raid buff on a dummy you should be doing a lot higher in raid. Perhaps your fps drops in a raiding situation? , playing with under 10 fps will hurt your dps a lot.

 

Voliska

Nope. No drop at all in fps.

 

• Seonid

They would simply set a NO_RESIST type flag for that ability, no reason to complicate it by adding in a spell pen mechanic. As regards Dampen/Amplify they seem to again be able to set an ability to have no spell damage coefficient which means it is unaffected by amp/dampen so Amp can then be used to help healers.

 

Voliska

Whoops. I didn't notice that we're linked on the left. I removed my link and just left in Flip's.

The point still stands that Flip and I both did 10-man raids, and his DPS was higher than mine. It could be buff related, it might be his spec. The reason I'm asking is because his hit is so low that I don't understand how he's not missing more spellcasts.

As for Fireblast, it's something I'm experimenting with. I'm trying to see if the damage from it is worth losing 1.5 seconds casting. It can put out a good amount of damage on a crit. Mana's not a problem for me.

 

• Seonid

If you could get a WWS parse of both of you in a raid, that would help a lot, as well as remove a large element of guesswork.

 

Voliska

We didn't get a WWS of our 10-man, but this is the one Flip was in.

Wow Web Stats

 

enthrop

btw, if he's frost, winter's chill will override scorch, so you don't actually need to apply scorch

in terms of dps... while I can't explain why yours is lower than his w/o guessing.. (does anyone have a WWS of this fight?), shouldn't you be refreshing LB more in that rotation? I've been under the impression that keeping LB up is actually beneficial to DPS.

I actually started raiding as frost myself. In the beginning, I actually do think it's a very good spec to raid in, at least until you get better gear. The spec to me was a lot more mana efficient, and popping CDs such as icy veins, trinket, water elemental, cold snap, and doing it all again, really helped me dps. Also at the beginning, the small mana regen on water elemental was helping my healers out.

My first comment on the frost mage's dps would have been him using all those CDs .. and WE does help frost dps.. but then I remembered rax does that aoe thing, and his WE probably woulda died pretty early on..

Um, maybe you just got lost in the heat of the moment and forget to cast something? =).

[edit] See WWS now, but that still leaves me guessing what you did =/

 

Voliska

I asked if anyone made a WWS of the fight. If there is, I'll post it.

Let's look at it another way: how does someone with such low hit do so much damage on bosses? Wiki says the hit cap's over 300 with EP. Is there some mechanic to all this I'm missing? Should I be putting points into crit instead?

 

Voliska

I wasn't looking at the stats of the Shaman in the group. Wrath of Air totem, Totem of Wrath. I think that's where it's all coming from.

 

◊ nathanbp

It used to be the case in TBC, not sure if it still is or not, that your chance of fully resisting a non-binary spell did not increase as your resist level went up, but stayed at a few percent. Instead the average amount that you partially resisted would increase. With the change from 0/25/50/75/100% resists to increments of 10%, it would be interesting to see what the resist chart looks like now. There was a topic on this in TBC a while back. (Non-binary spells are those which can be partially resisted, like Sapphiron's aura. Binary spells are either fully resisted or not at all resisted, for example silences.)

 

Incindia

Hey Guys, was wondering if anyone could recommended to me some useful macros for heroics/raiding? Right now the only ones I use are an icy veins/trinket/FFB macro and the Living Bomb/stopwatch macro (which is the most wonderful thing ever).

Any other macro suggestions would be very helpful, Thank You.

 

Allezrouge

Hi all. Was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on whether or not it would be foolish to take 3/3 Imp. Blizzard over 3/3 frost channeling in a FFB spec. My rational is basically that if i don't take blastwave or dragon's breath to take world in flames, then why not buff blizzard as much as possible as it is our best AoE. I have only cleared Naxx ten man and encountered very few if any mana issues. Is frost channeling worth it in the end? Do we run into mana issues in the 25 man versions of Naxx?

 

Nemantopia

WARNING: not so simple, for summary scroll down
-------------------------------------
@V: check with Rawr and such. At the moment, hit 'trumps' somewhere around 1.5-2k spellpower depending on spec, but the thing to remember is that every point you put into one stat, the added value of that stat drops slightly while the value of the others rises slightly. This is why it's possible for one stat to trump another and why there are general value where one is accepted to do so before another range where they swap. This is why the equation is always changing, and is heavily affected by what raid buffs are available. For frost it's a pretty easy equation to model since Frostbolt is the main spell, with managed cooldowns. For other specs the rotation affects the form of the equation, but it boils down to something that looks close to:

(([base spell + (spellpower x coefficient)]x1.critvalue)x1.hastevalue)x(1.83+0.hitvalue)

Frostfire places about an extra 75% value on crit, but the form above is basic.

The thing is, spellpower is the only thing up there that you can pull straight from your rating sheet, crit/haste/hit give different value yields for different ratings. In TBC [level 70], it looked like ~22/~15.8/~15.8 rating equaled 1% (0.01 in the above equation). It was easy to see why hit trumped, and why haste was better than crit as a default rule. But now those yields are about half. It takes ~45/~32/~32 to equal one %, so spellpower has gone up a lot in value. It's also easy to see why haste still generally trumps crit for non-FF and why hit is important, but when 1 hit rating point only buys you 0.0305 of a % and spellpower still buys you between .85-1 or more onto base spell damage hit isn't as crucial at entry-raid level gear [the rewards are a different story]. Plus, gems and enchants often grant more spellpower per slot than any rating value [ex: 12 spellpower vs 10 pick-a-rating on TBC epic gems].

Posting at work means I can't check out either of your gear or specs, but if your frost mage buddy has Winter's Chill, it's probably better to let him apply the crit debuff. This would make your idel rotation FFB^(nth power) filling in with LB, trinkets/IV, and Hot Streak Pyros, only using Fire Blast when forced to move. If bloodlust is available, having your IV/haste trinks popped then is better than IV duration, bloodlust duration, IV duration.

-------------------------------------------






blah, blah, fishcakes:


I'd venture a guess that between:
1) a new rotation (Focus on just FFB and your proc, LB, trinks, and IV)
2) letting your buddy be the +crit debuffer with winter's chill
3) not valuing hit so highly until you're over 2k spellpower (I'm not saying 'don't take gear with hit', I'm saying gem/enchant for spellpower until that point and when choosing between 60 spellpower / 60 hit item and a 90 spellpower / 30 hit item, take the second)

you'll see better DPS. There's also the RNG for crits, but hey.

 

Nemantopia

The added chill to Imp. Blizzard only really affects mobile trash, kiting, and farming. If you find your raid could use slowing down trash, go for it, but otherwise a better blizzard buff would be Frostbite/Shatter because it affects the damage.

 

Exellia

Im looking for a macro that makes me ask for salvation, and if possible targets the nearest paladin giving him a whisp.... maybe its even possible to have a macro for him responding on my whisp although im not sure if this is possible. Atm im writing in raid/yell but sometimes they tend to slack or just ignoring it, and i wanted to have something they just cant miss... So if anyone has any idea of how to write a macro for this it will be really helpfull.

 

Kaincael

Quick question... haven't found it anywhere, but does Arcane Focus's increased hit affect ALL spells, or just arcane spells?

The way it's phrased is very suspect, but I haven't seen any testing on it, nor have I seen anyone picking it up in FfB builds.

Edit:
Seonid, Hand of Salvation. Hand of Salvation - Spell - World of Warcraft

 

Nemantopia

Oorah for engrish.

I'm 99% sure it's just for Arcane spells, and should be looked at like ({Increases your chance to hit by 3%} + {reduces the mana cost of by 3%})([Arcane spells {only}]) to come out as: Arcane only +hit, Arcane only mana redux.

 

Dusoka

I've heard that you need frostbite in addition to imp blizzard in order for blizzard to proc fingers of frost (unless it has been fixed?). If I only take one point in frostbite for blizzard to keep proccing, will I see a proc rate of 15% per mob in the AoE pack or 5%?

 

Enthorn

I don't understand what you're trying to convey. Items at 70 were itemized based on their ilevel, which was centered around the requirements for 70. And because spell power isn't converted to a percentage, and other stats are, hit/crit/haste are of course not going to scale as well. (That is to say, 1 spell power at 70 is the same as 1 spell power at level 80.)

The point is that, yes, it only required so many points of hit/crit/haste to reach 1%, but these stats increase on them, not based on a point-for-point competition with spell power, but in terms of the percentage they increase that stat. It's not like spell power doubles at the same time.

[Loop of Forged Power] -> [Signet of the Malevolent]; [Hellfire-Encased Pendant] -> [Bone-Linked Amulet].

In response to the last comment, regarding choosing hit over spell power, I simply disagree. No matter how many times I run Rawr, the numbers say the same thing, in choosing hit above all else, and I'm only hovering around 1400 spell power in PvE. I'll simplify it... if I was at 15% hit rate and choosing which food buff to use, I would take 40 hit over 40 spell power in a heartbeat.

 

Nemantopia

Yes, you need one point in frostbite to proc fingers of frost, but you will notice three times as many FoF procs as Frostbite procs. More specifically, your FoF will proc like they're supposed to, and 1/3ed of those procs will also be Frostbite procs.

----------------------------------------
@Enthorn: it varies based on spec, hit from talents [ghost hit], and raid buffs. As an example, I'm operating at relatively low spellpower [below 1100] and stats, but have moderate amounts of hit, crit, and haste [still working on upgrading out of TBC epics], and a full set of raid-buffs would up the hit and crit considerably. With the level of ratings I already have as residual, focusing on spellpower at least until I hit 1.3k is better than hit [yes, really]. This is also spec-dependant. Hit is still a trump stat fairly early into raid gear, and I think it's safe to say any spec, even those that don't rely on things like Improved Scorch, will want capped hit once they're actually picking up T7 pieces. The point I'm making is that with a better rotation and NOT relying on IScorch, he MAY find that spellpower trumps hit for a bit longer. Using a tool like Rawr could so for 'sure'...I'm not saying spellpower doubled AND haste/crit/haste halved, I'm saying that you either look at it as 'spellpower same, others half' or 'spellpower double, others same', which is again a generality instead of an absolute.

 

Meghane

re-posted later, again

 

Misch

/y " Hey %t, gimme Salvation. I don't care that Blizzard removed the buff from the game, I want it anyway!"


Just target said pally and let hilarity ensue.

 

azzagachoo

To my knowledge there is no way to target the nearest Paladin if there is more than 1 in your raid. The best you could do is have several different macros, each with a different Paladin's name, and use it to whisper the nearest one (or the one who hasn't used his HoSalv yet) when needed.

Or you could just ask him on vent, if he has sound on (and isn't one of these oblivious types) he will hear you and oblige with the thread reduction!

 

Misch

It sounds to me that you are comparing your performance in one raid to Flip's from a completely different raid. That is really not an apple-to-apples comparison. Just the raid composition alone can/will have quite a significant impact: boss debuffs, class synergies, etc. (ie maybe he had hero/bloodlust and you didn't.)

Post a WWS from a raid both of you were in when you get a chance.