◊ Juravieal

Did I miss a hotfix notice somewhere changing the mana cost of Living Bomb? I could have sworn after the cost reduction it was roughly the same cost as fireball. I noticed today that its sitting at 608, the same as Pyro, and almost 100 more than fireball?

 

Nemantopia

(1) Actually, there have been a few attempts, they just got lost in the shuffle too.

(2) Having been frost for the entirety of Northrend, and observing behavior while farming crystallized elements and while questing, it seems to be based on the amount of health the mob has when you freeze them. I have fought elites, particualarly the earth/wind shrine guardians in Zul, and initiated a freeze right off the bat. Without using cooldowns [WE, IV, MI, trinks] to increase damage and some RNG hate, the spell expired before I did enough damage to cause the shatter. However, freezing the same mobs around 40% led to near instant breaking of Frost Nova from shatter comboing [I guess unconciously realizng the break mechanic is why I always do the combo at low health but rarely at high...or something], before the mob expired.

(3) While I'd imagine it's less than 40%, it's certainly closer to 40 than, say, 10. Like above, using Blizzard while farming the Frostbite only seems to break for an appreciable amount of time when the mobs are nearly dead anyway...near 100% the Frostbite is more likely to re-proc than break, around 50% reprocs often happen within a second and a half, but Frostbite seems to break after one crit-wave around 25%...too bad by then they're dead before they reach me )_)...(_(. I'd imagine the number is around 20-25%, but could probably be figured out based on duration division [duration of FBite/duration of Nova Freeze = % of 40%].

(4) Ignite munching is 'another critical hit triggers Ignite before the existing Ignite expires'. A 'ture' Ignite munch would be a Fireblast critical overwriting the Ignite from another spell that just hit, in this case Fireball, Pyroblast, or Frostfire Bolt. The reason is the first Ignite had no time to really do damage, not even its first tick, instead having a weaker Ignite replace it. Ignite munching is also a deceptive evil...yes, ignite deals 40% of the spell's damage over time, but you'd be losing DPS to hold back on your optimal rotation to wait for Ignite to expire, although this does contribute to why Fireblast is a DPS loss generally speaking [the other is how far you could be into your main nuke].

(5) I do not know, I'm sure someone else does.

 

Shazz

The cost is 22% of base mana and it was changed in patch 3.0.3.

 

Benlol

Just wondering, but is there really any reason to use [Sapphire Spellthread] as opposed to [Brilliant Spellthread]? I know we don't gain anything from spirit really, but I'd rather have spirit for when I do need to use mage armor (read; not yet) than some stamina. The same goes for purple gems, [Glowing Twilight Opal] vs [Royal Twilight Opal] vs [Purified Twilight Opal].

 

Sinless

Believe me, the total damage you will do over the lifetime of your character because of the times that extra stamina saved you is much much more than the damage you could ever do with the mana that extra spirit will save you in the case you use mage armor.

 

Zephriel

NOTE: See Enthorn's gear post for optimal 4T7 gear sets. The info below may help you gear efficiently for hit, but Rawr tests have produced stronger sets than the one below.

The following doesn't merit its own thread, but it might be useful to frostfire mages looking to develop a hit-optimized gear set. In particular, this is a reply to the "debatable" gear section in Manly's post back on page 9:

I believe the answer to sifting through those choices is to develop a good gearing strategy in regards to hit rating--namely, to find the most efficient way of reaching the effective fire spell hit cap (289). Using SimulationCraft's most up-to-date scale factors for 0/53/18 (hit = 2.04, sp = 1.41, haste = 1.10, crit = 1.04, int = 0.33, based on a Naxx 10 gear set), I took the liberty of comparing the "top" choice for each slot to the best choice without spell hit. Also, operating on the assumption that FFB+Ignite will make up ~75% of a mage's boss-fight DPS, I also evaluated gear with hit rated at only 1/4 its regular value (an attempt to find gearing instances where capping hit for all fire spells trumped stacking non-hit stats for FFB).

First, the unquestionable winners, which rank highest in their slots even without spell hit:

Head: [Gothik's Cowl]
* (honorable mention: [Hood of Rationality] only loses because of the socket bonus)
Back: [Pennant Cloak]
Hands: [Valorous Frostfire Gloves] (hit: 38) -- top item, even disregarding hit
Ring: [Signet of Manifested Pain] -- top 2 ring, top non-hit ring
Trinket: [Illustration of the Dragon Soul]
Weapon: [The Turning Tide]

Neck: [Wyrmrest Necklace of Power] (score: 247.49, hit: 33) vs. [Cosmic Lights] (score: 187.76, no hit)
Shoulder: [Mantle of the Corrupted] (score: 278.76, hit: 37) vs. [Valorous Frostfire Shoulderpads] (score: 249.20, no hit)
Chest: [Gown of the Spell-Weaver] (score: 403.87, hit: 72) vs. [The Sanctum's Flowing Vestments] (score: 291.18, no hit)
* (important mention: at 1/4 hit value, [Heigan's Putrid Vestments] [score: 299.67, hit: 49] wins over all options. this will be handy to know)
Wrist: [Bindings of the Expansive Mind] (score: 206.02, hit: 28) vs. [Unsullied Cuffs] (score: 169.61, no hit)
Waist: [Cincture of Polarity] (score: 288.90, hit: 43) vs. [Leash of Heedless Magic] (233.23, no hit)
Legs: [Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster] (score: 456.36, hit: 82) vs. [Leggings of Mortal Arrogance] (score: 303.06, no hit)
Feet: [Boots of Impetuous Ideals] (score: 278.86, hit: 37) vs. [Sandals of Crimson Fury] (score: 207.96, no hit)
* (honorable mention: [Arcanic Tramplers] -- less than 1 point behind [207.35], and with considerably higher stamina)
Ring: [Signet of the Malevolent] (score: 212.33, hit: 49) vs. [Signet of the Kirin Tor] (score: 162.64, no hit)
Trinket: [Dying Curse] (score: 343.78, hit: 71) vs. [Sundial of the Exiled] (score: 240.79, no hit)
* (honorable mention: [Embrace of the Spider] -- less than 1 point behind [240.63], but Sundial should produce higher DPM)
* (note: trinket values assume one proc per ~55 seconds)
Offhand: [Surplus Limb] (score: 214.57, hit: 32) vs. [Accursed Spine] (score: 149.89, no hit)
Wand: [Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians] (score: 120.34, hit: 18) vs. [Plague Igniter] (score: 84.06, no hit)

If we were to just take every top-scoring item regardless of how much hit rating we stack, we'd have 540 hit. That's way too much. The next step is to determine which swaps to non-hit items most efficiently shed the excess hit, producing a "perfect" gear set that maximizes non-hit stats while capping hit. My strategy for that is to take the difference in scores based on the SimCraft tables, and divide that by the difference in hit, thus showing us how many "points" we're losing per point of hit shed. We want to lose as few points as possible.

540 hit...
Shoulder: 29.56 / 37 = ~0.80 -- use [Valorous Frostfire Shoulderpads]; 503 hit left
Finger: 49.69 / 49 = ~1.01 -- use [Signet of the Kirin Tor]; 454 hit left
Waist: 55.67 / 43 = ~1.29 -- use [Leash of Heedless Magic]; 411 hit left
Wrist: 36.41 / 28 = ~1.30 -- use [Unsullied Cuffs]; 383 hit left
Trinket: 102.99 / 71 = ~1.45 -- use [Sundial of the Exiled]; 312 hit left
Chest: 112.69 / 72 = ~1.57 -- use [Heigan's Putrid Vestments]; see below

312 is still too much, but swapping out [Gown of the Spell-Weaver] for [The Sanctum's Flowing Vestments] (the "non-hit" winner) would leave us with only 240 hit. Here's where [Heigan's Putrid Vestments] comes in; if hit can be reasonably assigned 1/4 its value after 210 for frostfire mages, it's not only the winner for the slot, but it drops precisely the right amount of hit (23) to leave us with 289.

(anything after this is a bad trade)
Neck: 59.73 / 33 = ~1.81 -- keep [Wyrmrest Necklace of Power]
Legs: 153.30 / 82 = ~1.87 -- keep [Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster]
Feet: 70.90 / 37 = ~1.92 -- keep [Boots of Impetuous Ideals]
Offhand: 64.68 / 32 = ~2.02 -- keep [Surplus Limb]
Wand: 36.28 / 18 = ~2.02 -- keep [Gemmed Wand of the Nerubians]

 

thescreensavers

Last night on a boss fight I was at 99% threat, so I poped my MI, and kept dpsing, then I saw my name on the bosses target target but it was my MI add, he took the hit for me, and then the boss went back to the tank, and omen showed me at bottom of threat list.

so I think its working well. saved my gnome butt

 

Inoko

This is not it "working well." This is the very bug you quoted, popping MI below the tank's threat, and well below the 130% ranged pull, and getting aggro on the images. This will wipe raids if it's not dealt with -- from other comments in the thread it already has.

 

LiquidHAL

I'm considering not using it all because of this. Somehow on 4h they managed to pull one of the horsemen from clear across the room, wiping the raid. Also happened once with Heigen, though we managed to pull it off despite Heigen rushing the platform and hitting all the healers with his casting speed aura.

 

Dustwhisper

Zephriel, are you ignoring 4p valerous? When setting up gear in rawr I found every single piece of valerous to jump above those best in-slot items if it would grant 4p bonus or am I just valuing 4set too much =)

 

Saphya

Rawr is overvaluing the 4T7 bonus for now, as has been said by Roywyn. This is getting fixed in a future patch I think.
4T7 is worth about 1% DPS or so.

 

Dustwhisper

Yea I've seen this before but I thought i'd had been fixed in recent releases (eg. 2.1.3 that mentions support for several new setbonuses).

If it's only 1% then I'll have to reevaluate a couple slots.

 

marsui

What should a mage's single target dps be if you are getting ready to hit 25 man naxx? Outside of just posting what theory says. Specs can obviously vary, but as an officer I'd like to know what I should have my mages shoot for.

 

Zephriel

It's not a very strong bonus, and I deliberately ignored it. Roywyn had its value pegged at about 50 DPS (~30 spell power). You do get 2T7 with the above setup (gloves+shoulders), and you also get a few blue sockets for metagem requirements, which are really the important considerations.

That does lead to an interesting question, though: What's the most efficient way to achieve 4T7? I'm not sure what the best way to determine that would be.

 

Enthorn

It's either by replacing [Valorous Frostfire Circlet] with [Gothik's Cowl] or replacing [Valorous Frostfire Robe] with [Gown of the Spell-Weaver]. You'd just have to run Rawr though to answer that one. I'm taking a stab in the dark on this one though, basing my decision solely on the fact that those are the two items in the set that give up hit/haste to provide spirit, which is useless.

 

Zephriel

Well, compared to the original setup, you'd need to make two swaps to achieve 4T7. I tried comparing the "scores" of the three or four best possible combos, again scaling down any hit exceeding 210 to 1/4 value:

The original:
[Heigan's Putrid Vestments] + [Gothik's Cowl] + [Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster] = 1019.62, 289 hit

The 4T7 variants:
[Gothik's Cowl] + [Dying Curse] + T7 Robe + T7 Legs = 980.94, 272 hit
[Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster] + T7 Robe + T7 Helm = 979.47, 240 hit
[Gown of the Spell-Weaver] + T7 Helm + T7 Legs = 975.77, 273 hit
[Gothik's Cowl] + T7 Robe + T7 Legs = 972.81, 201 hit

I don't see any possible way to make a 4T7 setup with capped fire hit that beats the original 2T7 set, especially since the 2T7 set is already hit-capped. (If you can accept a set not capped for fire, you could add ~42 points to each of those 4T7 sets to simulate a bonus worth ~30 spell power, in which case, you *might* be able to achieve a DPS tie with the 2T7 set in some cases. It really depends on how precise the estimated 4T7 bonus' value is, though.)

 

◊ manly

Problem is, you use the same scale as 10man loot to determine the 'worth' of stats for the 25man stuff. When the differences are small you can't use that to make a conclusion. Although you could easily rawr-up both final sets and see what gives.

In any case, if both sets are equal and I had the choice, I'd go for 4pct7 because 1- its easier to get 2- it will tend to give better results the luckier you get on crits.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

epoh

After running several heroics I am no longer using MI as a threat reduction spell, or if there are ANY adds or kill order during boss fights. the MIs are just too damned unpredictable. The biggest annoyance is that they don't assist me, they seem to just attack whatever random 'red' target they feel like.

 

◊ manly

Well, assuming faxmonkey is right, and I assume he is, the impact of the MI bug would mean that mages should always pop mirror image before reaching 100% of the tank threat (ie: not 130% as you would with invis). However, you have to be wary of the fact those images act a bit like searing totems, in the sense that they will snap aggro upon boss threat reset if untanked (at least, that is what I expect, not that I tested).

edit: Actually, before 97.75% of the tank threat to be more exact.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Copernicus

Are there any bosses in WotLK where Amplify Magic would be a drawback on the tank(s)? I'm thinking anything with periodic aura ticks or spike magic damage with a multiplier would be the biggest worries.


Are there any bosses in WotLK where Amplify Magic would be a drawback on the raid? Are there any bosses where Amplify Magic on the raid is a large advantage due to massive raid damage? Sapphiron is the big question mark here, I've seen reports that the aura is unaffected but nothing about the blizzard.

 

Maje

Well, Noth is a perfect example of an agro wipe and MI is a godsend there, I can usually dps without stop even after he blinks when MI is up, I think the images only gain 133% of your initial agro; thereafter I think they either gain 33% or none at all, not certain.

 

Zephriel

If Rawr is to be trusted (read: if it's not overvaluing 4T7 anymore), it breaks down the top sets like this:

4T7+[Gothik's Cowl]+[Bindings of the Expansive Mind], ~5793 DPS, 247 hit
4T7+[Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster]+[Bindings of the Expansive Mind], ~5784 DPS, 286 hit
4T7+[Heigan's Putrid Vestments]+[Bindings of the Expansive Mind], ~5784 DPS, 290 hit (capped)
4T7+[Gown of the Spell-Weaver]+[Unsullied Cuffs], ~5782 DPS, 285 hit

It places the 2T7 set I originally suggested at only ~5769 DPS. So it may be that the 4T7 bonus is just enough to place 4T7 sets over the top. Which bodes well for us, since (as you said) T7 gear is much easier to get.

 

Thegoodman

I tested Amplify Magic on Sapphiron and I can confirm it is not effected by the aura. Just like pre-WotLK, periodic effects are not affected by Amp/Damp magic in any way.

 

Roywyn

4T7 is correct since Rawr 2.1.3, yes. Around 1% DPS, or ~50 DPS, not 6% or 300.

From what I remember toying with gear, blue gems and 1% draenei hit aura, 4T7 was just a little bit better that 2T7.

The differences are pretty small however, and it's all about completely reshuffling your hit rating on gear.
It reminds me of "T6 hat + Tempest" vs. "Illidari Cowl + Zhar'doom", where the best combination were just 0.1% apart depending on reshuffling single hit ratings on gear.


4T7 has the advantage that you can keep 2T7 with 2T8, and only have to break 2T7 when you reach 4T8.
Okay, you might need the fifth T7 banked, but you can keep that decent set bonuses until you get T8 bonuses.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

SaladFork

Hey guys, a really simple question that's been bugging me for a bit, and being in a relatively small guild, haven't had anyone to ask.

I've been a Frost Mage for as long as I can remember, and only recently switched to Frostfire to maximize my DPS in raids. Being Frost, I have no idea of the mechanics or workings of the Fire spec, and have managed to figure out pretty much everything except for one thing from reading the threads on this forum.

I've got the spell rotation down for the Frostfire spec, and already have a good feel for reacting to procs. However, there is one thing that hasn't been covered/mentioned yet, that is probably obvious to pretty much all of you, but completely alien to a Frost mage such as myself.

How does one work Combustion into the spell rotation? Would you sync it up with other cooldowns? Would you just use it whenever it's up?

Thanks in advance.