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Old 09/18/09, 5:00 PM   #2281
Korey
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Lightbringer
Originally Posted by Burra View Post
Ok, maybe I'm not understanding some things here.

1. In regards to my HSPyro stopcasting macro, how are you "queueing" up spells in anticipation of a Hot Streak? Let's suppose you're properly using LB on multiple targets, we'll say something like Emalon, so there's 5 targets total. Your LB's explode one after the other. In essence, you have the chance to get 5 HSPyros, which will munch if you continue your fireball cast. So, you're saying that you either:

A.) Stop casting fireballs to wait on possible HSPyro (which we all know "not casting = no damage")

or

B.) You munch 1 (or as many as 4) HSPyro's going off in order to complete the fireball cast.

Now, while fully raid buffed, let's say your fireball will crit for about 15k. Your Pyro also crits for about 15k. So what you're saying is "I would rather finish my cast of roughly 2.6 seconds and lose out on a possible 60k worth of damage, than lose out on .6 seconds (the time it took for your LB's to go off, proc HS, and hit your /stopcasting Pyro macro) on a fireball? I'm not being argumentative, or being an elitist. I'd just like to know, in this scenario, where my math is wrong. (Please show your work.)
On the very rare occasion where the boss is about to die or you're anticipating an imminent string of crits, there are other ways of dealing with those situations than to interrupt a fireball (ie, don't cast the fireball in the first place and do something else).

Queuing spells is an extremely important part of maximum dps. By "queue" I mean casually spamming the next spell towards the end of the current cast or GCD. The next spell will cast the moment the server allows it to. Yes, you can queue instant cast spells such as HS Pyro and LB. Example: Fireball -> Hot Streak proc -> Fireball -> Pyro. Obviously you can't spam the stopcasting macro during the second fireball or you'll interrupt it, and if you're not queuing it then you're losing seconds of dps throughout the course of the fight.

Also, you can't "anticipate" hot streaks. Going through with your current spell is always important, and that's true for all specs. It's the same reason why arcane mages couldn't rely on missile barrage proccing on the third arcane blast before arcane barrage was nerfed. I'm not gonna do the math for your scenario but I would guess interrupting your fireball hoping to prevent munching future potential hot streaks is a losing proposition.

Last edited by Korey : 09/18/09 at 7:40 PM.

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Old 09/18/09, 5:16 PM   #2282
Zaldinar
Don Flamenco
 
Zaldinar's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by GnomerTerp View Post
This might be a stupid question, but does a glyphed blast wave interrupts spell casts?
That is not a stupid question at all, and is also one I don't have the answer to and the PTR vendor doesn't have the glyph to test with. Does someone on live have this glyph or access to it?

To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://zaldinar.wordpress.com/
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.

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Old 09/18/09, 5:28 PM   #2283
Rugz
Von Kaiser
 
Rugz's Avatar
 
Gnome Mage
 
Azuremyst (EU)
Just tested outside Ironforge, glyphed provides the normal pushback of damage but no interrupt.

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Old 09/19/09, 12:13 AM   #2284
Tribat
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Dragonmaw
I have a couple of questions, I went through the armory of the mages in ensidia, paragon, and premonition and I noticed a couple of things I can't figure out.

1. They all have ffb as their dual spec. I can't think of a time in heroic trial 25 where I would want to be ffb instead of fire.

2. A lot of them have combustion, which I didn't think was a very good talent.

Anyone have any clue?

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Old 09/19/09, 1:10 AM   #2285
Gasillio
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Tribat View Post
I have a couple of questions, I went through the armory of the mages in ensidia, paragon, and premonition and I noticed a couple of things I can't figure out.

1. They all have ffb as their dual spec. I can't think of a time in heroic trial 25 where I would want to be ffb instead of fire.

2. A lot of them have combustion, which I didn't think was a very good talent.

Anyone have any clue?
Perhaps it is still there from Ulduar, where several encounters (Vezax, Hodir, etc) favored Frostfire. Yes, Fireball can work quite dandy through all of Trial of the (Grand) Crusader, so there isn't much need for your dual spec. Perhaps they still run Ulduar (for the head mount) or are just lazy.

Combustion is not a Great talent. However, it isn't completely worthless. It's one talent point. Perhaps that's where they felt it was best needed.

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Old 09/19/09, 1:45 AM   #2286
kzn
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Tribat View Post
I have a couple of questions, I went through the armory of the mages in ensidia, paragon, and premonition and I noticed a couple of things I can't figure out.

1. They all have ffb as their dual spec. I can't think of a time in heroic trial 25 where I would want to be ffb instead of fire.

2. A lot of them have combustion, which I didn't think was a very good talent.

Anyone have any clue?
They have FFB because the strat, as far as I can tell, for heroic Anub is very AoE heavy, and FFB has the best AoE of any decent PvE spec.

As for combustion, it was my understanding that it still is good in FFB specs. It is technically possible to get Combustion without losing raw DPS elsewhere in a Fireball spec, as well, if the mage is willing to go 0/2 Flamethrowing.

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Old 09/19/09, 2:58 AM   #2287
Arbitur
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Daggerspine
I'll risk replying here despite the forum rules regarding heroic Anub discussions because the following thoughts are true for FFB specs in general, and because the particularities may be applied to the non-heroic version of the encounter as well.

Now then. Why wouldn't a mage be willing to run a 0/2 Flame Throwing FFB spec? The talent does not affect your primary nuke, so unless you're responsible for scorching, I don't really see the point in spending any points there. Even then, the fight does not require any movement while the boss is surfaced, which is the most crucial phase for maximizing dps.

I've also seen mages spending the "floater" points in Permafrost. This is a more intelligent choice for the fight as it allows for better kiting of the Swarm Scarabs while the boss is submerged. Tanking them is not ideal, so ranged are normally responsible for generating the most threat.

However, I have found the Fiery Payback talent to be the most useful for this encounter, specifically for the final phase in which Leeching Swarm is active. While the cast reduction on pyroblast might not effect a new rotation (to be clear, I have not tested this), the damage reduction proves very helpful as your healers struggle to keep everyone just barely alive.

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Old 09/19/09, 11:52 AM   #2288
Geglash
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
<TSA>
Zenedar (EU)
Originally Posted by Arbitur View Post
Thoughts on Fiery Payback.
Just want to point out that regardless of how you go about casting Pyroblast (Hot Streak proc or just normal cast) when under 35% health you will incur the 5 second cooldown on Pyroblast if specced for Fiery Payback. The other benefits from the talent may well justify this potential loss in Pyroblast casts however.

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Old 09/19/09, 12:16 PM   #2289
Akaru
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Spinebreaker
Originally Posted by Korey View Post
Queuing spells is an extremely important part of maximum dps. By "queue" I mean casually spamming the next spell towards the end of the current cast or GCD. The next spell will cast the moment the server allows it to. Yes, you can queue instant cast spells such as HS Pyro and LB. Example: Fireball -> Hot Streak proc -> Fireball -> Pyro. Obviously you can't spam the stopcasting macro during the second fireball or you'll interrupt it, and if you're not queuing it then you're losing seconds of dps throughout the course of the fight.
I personally find this true when you're chaincasting spells with casting time, but I feel as though it's actually better to not spam the next spell's button while in a GCD as it seems to incur another GCD lock, hence causing there to be a 2s or so pause between the instant cast spell (with only GCD) and the next spell that's casted (e.g. Fireball). This is from practice, I've no idea if it's true, but I do recall from reading wowhead's comments some time ago on the Rapid Defense achievement and there was a post on the mechanics of that vehicle and I seem to find it similar between that and using instant pyros from HS triggering the GCD, hence if you try and use the next spell too quick it'll incur yet another one. I do play in high latency too, as suggested in the post(400-600ms) and experience the same kind of delay if I try mashing Fireball's button right after a Hot Streak's pyro.

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Old 09/19/09, 2:10 PM   #2290
curii
Banned
 
Gnome Mage
 
Executus (EU)
Originally Posted by manly View Post
Err no, fireball spec has the most horrible aoe dps of all mage specs, with the only exception being if you can make a very high use of living bomb (something like yogg-0). If you want to do aoe damage, you try and spec anything else than fireball spec. Ideally FFB, if not then arcane is a strong contender.
Well, you should try the flamestrike rank9 and rank8 trick and see for yourself. For a firemage, flamestrike has the same chance to crit has any other fire spell (except pyro and fireball) and so it puts the ignite dot on the mobs. Doing the rank8/rank9 trick, the mobs will have ignite, FS rank9 dot, FS rank8 dot up all time.

I've done the Blizzard aoe and now I use this aoe 'cause I've noticed the damage output change.

So, this is how I do it:

LB (12secs remaining to explosion) -> Flamestrike rank 9 (8 secs dot) -> Flamestrike rank 8 (8 secs dot) -> Flamestrike rank 9 -> Flamestrike rank 9 -> LB explosion -> LB (12secs remaing to explosion) -> repeat...

Off Topic: I was checking your armory and was going to ask you what's up with all that purple gems but then I realized that now, with the spirit change, it's worth puting a [12sp 10spirit] gem in a blue slot with a +5sp socket bonus. I'll take your bracers example: if you'd used a 23sp gem (like I was going to tell you should) you'd be gaining 6sp (23sp vs 12sp+5sp) but losing around 8crit (10spirit [+10%kings, +10%SotM] = 8,47crit rating). I'm just sad i only realized it now ;(

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Old 09/19/09, 8:50 PM   #2291
kzn
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Tichondrius
Originally Posted by Arbitur View Post
Now then. Why wouldn't a mage be willing to run a 0/2 Flame Throwing FFB spec? The talent does not affect your primary nuke, so unless you're responsible for scorching, I don't really see the point in spending any points there. Even then, the fight does not require any movement while the boss is surfaced, which is the most crucial phase for maximizing dps.
I meant you could fit Combustion and 3/3 SotM into a Fireball spec if you went 0/2 Flamethrowing.

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Old 09/20/09, 12:21 PM   #2292
Akaru
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Spinebreaker
Originally Posted by curii View Post
Well, you should try the flamestrike rank9 and rank8 trick and see for yourself. For a firemage, flamestrike has the same chance to crit has any other fire spell (except pyro and fireball) and so it puts the ignite dot on the mobs. Doing the rank8/rank9 trick, the mobs will have ignite, FS rank9 dot, FS rank8 dot up all time.

I've done the Blizzard aoe and now I use this aoe 'cause I've noticed the damage output change.

So, this is how I do it:

LB (12secs remaining to explosion) -> Flamestrike rank 9 (8 secs dot) -> Flamestrike rank 8 (8 secs dot) -> Flamestrike rank 9 -> Flamestrike rank 9 -> LB explosion -> LB (12secs remaing to explosion) -> repeat...
(
I used to do FS9 -> FS8 -> Blizz -> (repeat) but since 3.2 I've switched to this: LB -> tab LB -> tab LB -> tab LB (until everyone has LB) -> Blizz (until first LB explodes) -> (Repeat). Granted, LB requires 11s to explode, and then every 1.5s later, but if the fight will last longer than 20s (and none of the adds die before that time), it's better DPS to keep LBing if all of the 'first batch' will explode their LBs. If there's something like 4 adds I use Blizzard as filler between the 4th LB and the next wave of LBs after explosion.

Also, if there's one among the pack of adds being AoE'ed that's stronger/need to be killed earlier than the others, then target him for the Hot Streaks that you will get. Of course this one works when there's alot of adds that don't die that fast (In Uld25 mainly). Sometimes when there's more than 7 I just keep tabbing LB (phase 2 Black Knight, Freya adds, etc) - 17k dps on Freya trash don't lie :p Try it out.

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Old 09/21/09, 11:07 AM   #2293
Greacher
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Frostmourne
OK I am just going to put this out there, there is no reason to be making a big deal out of which spec does better AoE.
In all cases Blizz does at least 8k dps no matter which spec, besides you will just be out-dps'd by a rogue and their fan of knives anyway.

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Old 09/21/09, 4:28 PM   #2294
Thegoodman
Piston Honda
 
Thegoodman's Avatar
 
Gnome Mage
 
Daggerspine
Originally Posted by Tyrian View Post
What are some other variations people are considering for an optimal heroic Anub'arak 25 talent spec? Ultimately what I ended up with was just a very standard looking FFB spec, just shedding the range talents.
The Arcane changes in 3.2.2 are going to open up Arcane single target DPS a lot which will make it a viable option for all raiding, not just Heroic Anub'arak 25. Arcane spec'd Blizzard with a crit multiplier of 236.25% combined with the high mana regen of Arcane may make it as viable as a FFB spec for AoE centric fights.

Beware! The mind of the believer stagnates.

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Old 09/21/09, 4:37 PM   #2295
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
The only real downside of arcane aoe is lack of threat reduction. Outside of that its somewhat very comparable to ffb.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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