Mage: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 21

Maledict · 12/04/08, 9:53 AM

Well, for one thing, as you yoursel fsay - Frostfire is a raiding spec. It scales better than any other mage spec, and comparing it without the raid buffs that support it does mean it will perform less.

Also, not sure why you are fireblasting your rotation - I would really not expect this to be an increase in DPS at this stage of the game? It's certainly not healthy for your mana bar,

Also, no need to sign your posts, we can see who sent the message to the left. (This is a forum rule).

Lileith · 12/04/08, 9:54 AM

Originally Posted by Voliska

I thought I'd post here and see what I might be doing wrong.

If you are doing 2K dps without any raid buff on a dummy you should be doing a lot higher in raid. Perhaps your fps drops in a raiding situation? , playing with under 10 fps will hurt your dps a lot.

Voliska · 12/04/08, 9:58 AM

Originally Posted by Lileith

If you are doing 2K dps without any raid buff on a dummy you should be doing a lot higher in raid. Perhaps your fps drops in a raiding situation? , playing with under 10 fps will hurt your dps a lot.

Nope. No drop at all in fps.

♦ Seonid · 12/04/08, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Thegoodman

Is it possible Sapphiron has some spell penetration that makes full resists difficult/impossible?

They would simply set a NO_RESIST type flag for that ability, no reason to complicate it by adding in a spell pen mechanic. As regards Dampen/Amplify they seem to again be able to set an ability to have no spell damage coefficient which means it is unaffected by amp/dampen so Amp can then be used to help healers.

Voliska · 12/04/08, 10:02 AM

Originally Posted by Maledict

Well, for one thing, as you yoursel fsay - Frostfire is a raiding spec. It scales better than any other mage spec, and comparing it without the raid buffs that support it does mean it will perform less.

Also, not sure why you are fireblasting your rotation - I would really not expect this to be an increase in DPS at this stage of the game? It's certainly not healthy for your mana bar,

Also, no need to sign your posts, we can see who sent the message to the left. (This is a forum rule).

Whoops. I didn't notice that we're linked on the left. I removed my link and just left in Flip's.

The point still stands that Flip and I both did 10-man raids, and his DPS was higher than mine. It could be buff related, it might be his spec. The reason I'm asking is because his hit is so low that I don't understand how he's not missing more spellcasts.

As for Fireblast, it's something I'm experimenting with. I'm trying to see if the damage from it is worth losing 1.5 seconds casting. It can put out a good amount of damage on a crit. Mana's not a problem for me.

♦ Seonid · 12/04/08, 10:05 AM

If you could get a WWS parse of both of you in a raid, that would help a lot, as well as remove a large element of guesswork.

Voliska · 12/04/08, 10:08 AM

Originally Posted by Seonid

If you could get a WWS parse of both of you in a raid, that would help a lot, as well as remove a large element of guesswork.

We didn't get a WWS of our 10-man, but this is the one Flip was in.

Wow Web Stats

enthrop · 12/04/08, 10:14 AM

btw, if he's frost, winter's chill will override scorch, so you don't actually need to apply scorch

in terms of dps... while I can't explain why yours is lower than his w/o guessing.. (does anyone have a WWS of this fight?), shouldn't you be refreshing LB more in that rotation? I've been under the impression that keeping LB up is actually beneficial to DPS.

I actually started raiding as frost myself. In the beginning, I actually do think it's a very good spec to raid in, at least until you get better gear. The spec to me was a lot more mana efficient, and popping CDs such as icy veins, trinket, water elemental, cold snap, and doing it all again, really helped me dps. Also at the beginning, the small mana regen on water elemental was helping my healers out.

My first comment on the frost mage's dps would have been him using all those CDs .. and WE does help frost dps.. but then I remembered rax does that aoe thing, and his WE probably woulda died pretty early on..

Um, maybe you just got lost in the heat of the moment and forget to cast something? =).

[edit] See WWS now, but that still leaves me guessing what you did =/

Voliska · 12/04/08, 10:42 AM

I asked if anyone made a WWS of the fight. If there is, I'll post it.

Let's look at it another way: how does someone with such low hit do so much damage on bosses? Wiki says the hit cap's over 300 with EP. Is there some mechanic to all this I'm missing? Should I be putting points into crit instead?

Voliska · 12/04/08, 10:57 AM

I wasn't looking at the stats of the Shaman in the group. Wrath of Air totem, Totem of Wrath. I think that's where it's all coming from.

♦ nathanbp · 12/04/08, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Thegoodman

With 416 Frost Resist I was still taking between 15 and 400 damage per tick against Sapphiron. I don't recall seeing even one full resist but I will try to get a WWS report for our next encounter.

I can confirm that neither Amplify Magic or Dampen Magic affect the periodic damage from the fight just like they have not been affected in the past. I would recommend Amplify Magic for the entire raid.

Is it possible Sapphiron has some spell penetration that makes full resists difficult/impossible?

It used to be the case in TBC, not sure if it still is or not, that your chance of fully resisting a non-binary spell did not increase as your resist level went up, but stayed at a few percent. Instead the average amount that you partially resisted would increase. With the change from 0/25/50/75/100% resists to increments of 10%, it would be interesting to see what the resist chart looks like now. There was a topic on this in TBC a while back. (Non-binary spells are those which can be partially resisted, like Sapphiron's aura. Binary spells are either fully resisted or not at all resisted, for example silences.)

Incindia · 12/04/08, 12:20 PM

Hey Guys, was wondering if anyone could recommended to me some useful macros for heroics/raiding? Right now the only ones I use are an icy veins/trinket/FFB macro and the Living Bomb/stopwatch macro (which is the most wonderful thing ever).

Any other macro suggestions would be very helpful, Thank You.

Allezrouge · 12/04/08, 1:10 PM

Hi all. Was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on whether or not it would be foolish to take 3/3 Imp. Blizzard over 3/3 frost channeling in a FFB spec. My rational is basically that if i don't take blastwave or dragon's breath to take world in flames, then why not buff blizzard as much as possible as it is our best AoE. I have only cleared Naxx ten man and encountered very few if any mana issues. Is frost channeling worth it in the end? Do we run into mana issues in the 25 man versions of Naxx?

Nemantopia · 12/04/08, 1:19 PM

WARNING: not so simple, for summary scroll down
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@V: check with Rawr and such. At the moment, hit 'trumps' somewhere around 1.5-2k spellpower depending on spec, but the thing to remember is that every point you put into one stat, the added value of that stat drops slightly while the value of the others rises slightly. This is why it's possible for one stat to trump another and why there are general value where one is accepted to do so before another range where they swap. This is why the equation is always changing, and is heavily affected by what raid buffs are available. For frost it's a pretty easy equation to model since Frostbolt is the main spell, with managed cooldowns. For other specs the rotation affects the form of the equation, but it boils down to something that looks close to:

(([base spell + (spellpower x coefficient)]x1.critvalue)x1.hastevalue)x(1.83+0.hitvalue)

Frostfire places about an extra 75% value on crit, but the form above is basic.

The thing is, spellpower is the only thing up there that you can pull straight from your rating sheet, crit/haste/hit give different value yields for different ratings. In TBC [level 70], it looked like ~22/~15.8/~15.8 rating equaled 1% (0.01 in the above equation). It was easy to see why hit trumped, and why haste was better than crit as a default rule. But now those yields are about half. It takes ~45/~32/~32 to equal one %, so spellpower has gone up a lot in value. It's also easy to see why haste still generally trumps crit for non-FF and why hit is important, but when 1 hit rating point only buys you 0.0305 of a % and spellpower still buys you between .85-1 or more onto base spell damage hit isn't as crucial at entry-raid level gear [the rewards are a different story]. Plus, gems and enchants often grant more spellpower per slot than any rating value [ex: 12 spellpower vs 10 pick-a-rating on TBC epic gems].

Posting at work means I can't check out either of your gear or specs, but if your frost mage buddy has Winter's Chill, it's probably better to let him apply the crit debuff. This would make your idel rotation FFB^(nth power) filling in with LB, trinkets/IV, and Hot Streak Pyros, only using Fire Blast when forced to move. If bloodlust is available, having your IV/haste trinks popped then is better than IV duration, bloodlust duration, IV duration.

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blah, blah, fishcakes:

I'd venture a guess that between:
1) a new rotation (Focus on just FFB and your proc, LB, trinks, and IV)
2) letting your buddy be the +crit debuffer with winter's chill
3) not valuing hit so highly until you're over 2k spellpower (I'm not saying 'don't take gear with hit', I'm saying gem/enchant for spellpower until that point and when choosing between 60 spellpower / 60 hit item and a 90 spellpower / 30 hit item, take the second)

you'll see better DPS. There's also the RNG for crits, but hey.

Nemantopia · 12/04/08, 1:22 PM

Originally Posted by Allezrouge

Hi all. Was wondering if anyone had any thoughts on whether or not it would be foolish to take 3/3 Imp. Blizzard over 3/3 frost channeling in a FFB spec. My rational is basically that if i don't take blastwave or dragon's breath to take world in flames, then why not buff blizzard as much as possible as it is our best AoE. I have only cleared Naxx ten man and encountered very few if any mana issues. Is frost channeling worth it in the end? Do we run into mana issues in the 25 man versions of Naxx?

The added chill to Imp. Blizzard only really affects mobile trash, kiting, and farming. If you find your raid could use slowing down trash, go for it, but otherwise a better blizzard buff would be Frostbite/Shatter because it affects the damage.