Mage: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 27

dcpwns · 01/07/09, 12:07 AM

Just wondering if you mages think FFB scailing is going to go crazy like warlocks did in BC with demonic sac and shadow and flame.

Alouette · 01/07/09, 6:20 AM

With my current gear setup, I have approximately 540 crit rating. The other mages I raid with have approximately 660, 680, and 730. Obviously, this means they are critting/hotstreaking a lot more. Is there anything I can do with my current gearset to proc more hot streaks via re-gemming, or will it be a net loss in overall damage? As it stands I am beginning to fall behind on damage, even though our gear is (fairly) similar.

I have tried to use the TCoM, but haven't found it a very intuitive tool as I'm not extremely deep into theorycrafting. I have also attempted to use Rawr Mage but while a lot more user friendly, I haven't been able to find the "best gems in slot" and such, or at what ratios crit/dmg/haste/hit work together. I am gearing toward 10-11% hit in 25s, as we typically have a spriest or moonkin, sometimes a draenei, and of course, 3% from EP.

The only things I could really change about my spec would to be take 2 out of Dragons Breath and Blastwave and put them into World in Flames, but my concern is not the amount of crits the Pyro will make, but the amount of Pyro's I'm proccing in the first place.

PS: If it helps, the armory names for my fellow raiding mages are: Kron, Smkizzle, and Icedd. I cannot see how they're obtaining such high crit rating while maintaining similar stats to me. I know my weapon doesn't have crit, but that's about the only glaring piece I can think of.

swiss · 01/07/09, 10:33 AM

I am having some DPS issues. I had heard that a lower frame rate will lower dps.

How big a issue is frame rate to dps? Are we talking 50dps, 100dps, or like 200-300dps. Just trying to put a finger on the problem

epoh · 01/07/09, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by Alouette

With my current gear setup, I have approximately 540 crit rating. The other mages I raid with have approximately 660, 680, and 730. Obviously, this means they are critting/hotstreaking a lot more. Is there anything I can do with my current gearset to proc more hot streaks via re-gemming, or will it be a net loss in overall damage? As it stands I am beginning to fall behind on damage, even though our gear is (fairly) similar.

I have tried to use the TCoM, but haven't found it a very intuitive tool as I'm not extremely deep into theorycrafting. I have also attempted to use Rawr Mage but while a lot more user friendly, I haven't been able to find the "best gems in slot" and such, or at what ratios crit/dmg/haste/hit work together. I am gearing toward 10-11% hit in 25s, as we typically have a spriest or moonkin, sometimes a draenei, and of course, 3% from EP.

The only things I could really change about my spec would to be take 2 out of Dragons Breath and Blastwave and put them into World in Flames, but my concern is not the amount of crits the Pyro will make, but the amount of Pyro's I'm proccing in the first place.

PS: If it helps, the armory names for my fellow raiding mages are: Kron, Smkizzle, and Icedd. I cannot see how they're obtaining such high crit rating while maintaining similar stats to me. I know my weapon doesn't have crit, but that's about the only glaring piece I can think of.

The only thing I can see that you could pretty easily change is [Ring of Ancient Knowledge]. Pick up the [Signet of the Kirin Tor]. Expensive and the port is useless, but the stats are about the best you can get in-game. How far behind are you in dps from the other similarly geared mages?

epoh · 01/07/09, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by swiss

I am having some DPS issues. I had heard that a lower frame rate will lower dps.

How big a issue is frame rate to dps? Are we talking 50dps, 100dps, or like 200-300dps. Just trying to put a finger on the problem

How low is your frame rate? I cannot see blaming 200-300 dps on frame rate unless your computer completely sucks.

Alouette · 01/07/09, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by epoh

The only thing I can see that you could pretty easily change is [Ring of Ancient Knowledge]. Pick up the [Signet of the Kirin Tor]. Expensive and the port is useless, but the stats are about the best you can get in-game. How far behind are you in dps from the other similarly geared mages?

My apologies, I was messing around in IF in my old T6 and forgot to change back that ring! I currently have Lost Jewel and Titanium Spellshock ring socketed with +19 damage. I honestly do not know how far behind I am, but here are some parses from last night. My gut instinct is 200ish dps. Please note I was only in for the latter half of the raid because I had offered to sit to get some other people gear. I also was not fully flasked up because I was only in for a few bosses so I just elixired.

Sapphiron:
(I kinda got screwed by Blizzards so I had a lot of "running away/blinking/etc" time, not exactly the best fight to judge)
Wow Web Stats

Kel'thuzad:
Wow Web Stats

Archavon 25
Wow Web Stats

Malygos 25
Wow Web Stats

Any sort of constructive criticism would be appreciated. I wish I had a non-laggy Patchwerk to post, but our server is so incredibly laggy in 25s right now during primetime that we've had weeks where nobody hit above 2700dps due to massive lag. Other weeks, multiple people break 5k dps.

mercury283 · 01/07/09, 12:09 PM

Hi,

I tried to search for any definitive answer to this but haven't found anything. With the 3.0.8 changes (namely Torment the Weak working with Arcane Blast now), is it still not worth it for an arcane mage to continually recast slow every 15 seconds for the 12% Torment the Weak benefit? This is assuming no other snares on the target and only considering the arcane mage's self-dps.

In other words, I am pretty much asking what is wrong with the logic of this argument (quote taken from the WoW forums):

Consider a boss, you are spamming your dmg spells on that boss. Casting the "instant" slow still takes a GCD away from your time to cast. It does take away dmg. It takes just as much time away from you as casting scorch.

Worst case, with no haste, you lose 1.5 seconds to GCD of slow and gain 13.5 remaining seconds of extra 12% dmg. You only lose 10% of your available casting time and you gain 12% damage. It's almost a wash for a single mage, but it is still a trivial gain in dmg ( depending on your cast times and when slow wears off *note*) at a high cost of mana even for one mage. With 2 mages it is unquestionably an increase in dmg.

...

*note* you lose 10% of your dmg keeping up slow aka 1.5 seconds of every 15... you get 112% of your remaining dmg which was 90% of your original dmg. Result is 100.8% of your original damage. Higher if you make use of PoM and AP or other cool down dependent abilities during this time.

swiss · 01/07/09, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by epoh

How low is your frame rate? I cannot see blaming 200-300 dps on frame rate unless your computer completely sucks.

When Wolk came out my frame rate dropped to a 10-15 average. It was much better pre WoLK. Also dips even lower when the instances are laggin server side.

So ya it seems to my comp is crap but just trying to figure out my dps lose.

I have noticed my scroch timer going down and reapply and beat the time on my screen and have a new scroch show up instead of a refreshed stack.

homet · 01/07/09, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by mercury283

Hi,

I tried to search for any definitive answer to this but haven't found anything. With the 3.0.8 changes (namely Torment the Weak working with Arcane Blast now), is it still not worth it for an arcane mage to continually recast slow every 15 seconds for the 12% Torment the Weak benefit? This is assuming no other snares on the target and only considering the arcane mage's self-dps.

In other words, I am pretty much asking what is wrong with the logic of this argument (quote taken from the WoW forums):

Quick update on the TtW change in 3.0.8. It's not just that AB works with TtW (very helpful). What is *the most* helpful is that TtW can be maintained by the natural fight mechanics of *other classes* performing combat slowing in their normal rotations. That means that your DKs, Pallies, Rogues and Warriors can provide the slowing conditions that allow you to continue your DPS cycle without a slow refresh. There is some matter of personal taste and raid utility as to whether you should keep the slow talent (I think it can't possibly hurt in a pinch).

mercury283 · 01/07/09, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by homet

Quick update on the TtW change in 3.0.8. It's not just that AB works with TtW (very helpful). What is *the most* helpful is that TtW can be maintained by the natural fight mechanics of *other classes* performing combat slowing in their normal rotations. That means that your DKs, Pallies, Rogues and Warriors can provide the slowing conditions that allow you to continue your DPS cycle without a slow refresh. There is some matter of personal taste and raid utility as to whether you should keep the slow talent (I think it can't possibly hurt in a pinch).

Yea, I understand that now most of the time if you have a tank TtW will automatically be active because of Thunder Clap, etc. but I was just wondering, if assuming that this is not the case, and the arcane mage himself still needs to keep slow up by continually recasting it (just a hypothetical situation), whether it is still more DPS to just not keep slow up and not get the TtW effect due to the DPS loss from the GCD of recasting slow every 15 seconds.

Narcis · 01/07/09, 2:09 PM

I apologize in advance if this has already been asked. I sifted through the forums a bit using the search function to see if anyone else had asked this question but I couldn't find anything. As a FFB mage I'm looking for a good debuff mod to keep track of imp scorch on the mob. I was using class timers before but it doesn't keep track of my other mages scorches if they got theirs up first. I played around with Debuff Filter but it also tracks my other mages LBs so I can't tell the difference between mine and theirs.

Any recommendations on a single mod? I have a feeling I'll end up using both Debuff Filter just to keep track of Scorch and Class Timers for my LB and other buffs.

Thanks in advance

Fogge · 01/07/09, 2:17 PM

How rude of me not to reply to all the answers that popped in. I've done some gear upgrades and have been, as you suggested, using Rawr (never installed it after my hdd format session a couple months back for some reason) more scientific, and now recieve a lot of better numbers that match reality, although slightly low unbuffed as compared to the average numbers i reach doing unbuffed FrB spam in game, but who's perfect eh

.

I cant be arsed to go back and reply to everything you guys said, but i figure that the expected FFB DPS from Theory Craft-o-Matic was inflated for some reason. I did use the full monty (imp scorch up at all times, LB up at almost all times, Hot streak procs used as fast as possible etc) for the rotation when i tested so my consistent results should be correct, and the simulator wrong even though it was very accurate for my FrB spec DPS.

With the gear upgrades, Theory Craft-o-Matic still puts my FFB rotation about 300 DPS above my FrB rotation, while Rawr puts them closer, but favouring a arcane rotation. I shall see what I will do with this information when patch hits.

◊ nathanbp · 01/07/09, 2:57 PM

Originally Posted by Narcis

I apologize in advance if this has already been asked. I sifted through the forums a bit using the search function to see if anyone else had asked this question but I couldn't find anything. As a FFB mage I'm looking for a good debuff mod to keep track of imp scorch on the mob. I was using class timers before but it doesn't keep track of my other mages scorches if they got theirs up first. I played around with Debuff Filter but it also tracks my other mages LBs so I can't tell the difference between mine and theirs.

Any recommendations on a single mod? I have a feeling I'll end up using both Debuff Filter just to keep track of Scorch and Class Timers for my LB and other buffs.

Thanks in advance

This has been brought up a bunch of times, but Scorchio (I think Scorchio2 is the name of the mod now) will track all Scorches (and winter's chill) and your Living Bomb with reminder sounds to refresh Scorch and when Living Bomb explodes. Also the most recent version puts the number of Scorches on the mob first, so it is always visible (in previous versions it could be off the end of the bar). The only problem with it is that if you cast Living Bomb while out of combat (at the very start of fights) it will not track it, but this really isn't that big of a deal.

epoh · 01/07/09, 3:14 PM

Originally Posted by swiss

When Wolk came out my frame rate dropped to a 10-15 average. It was much better pre WoLK. Also dips even lower when the instances are laggin server side.

So ya it seems to my comp is crap but just trying to figure out my dps lose.

I have noticed my scroch timer going down and reapply and beat the time on my screen and have a new scroch show up instead of a refreshed stack.

Oh lord. How do you play like that? Have you turn off shadows and turned down texture and spell detail and such? Turn off the weather and reduce the distance slider. Also, make sure you have the latest drivers for your video card.

epoh · 01/07/09, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by Narcis

I apologize in advance if this has already been asked. I sifted through the forums a bit using the search function to see if anyone else had asked this question but I couldn't find anything. As a FFB mage I'm looking for a good debuff mod to keep track of imp scorch on the mob. I was using class timers before but it doesn't keep track of my other mages scorches if they got theirs up first. I played around with Debuff Filter but it also tracks my other mages LBs so I can't tell the difference between mine and theirs.

Any recommendations on a single mod? I have a feeling I'll end up using both Debuff Filter just to keep track of Scorch and Class Timers for my LB and other buffs.

Thanks in advance

Have you looked at Satrina's Buff Frames? There are a million different ways to configure and filter buffs and their appearance/location.

swiss · 01/07/09, 3:31 PM

Originally Posted by epoh

Oh lord. How do you play like that? Have you turn off shadows and turned down texture and spell detail and such? Turn off the weather and reduce the distance slider. Also, make sure you have the latest drivers for your video card.

Well good question. But I am still wondering how much impact this would have on my dps. I can never hit the bench marks that any sims run, with my gear. I am hoping this is do to bad frame rate and not my poor play.

epoh · 01/07/09, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by swiss

Well good question. But I am still wondering how much impact this would have on my dps. I can never hit the bench marks that any sims run, with my gear. I am hoping this is do to bad frame rate and not my poor play.

I'd say it would take a pretty big hit out of your dps if you are consistantly sitting at 10-15fps. It's got to be impossible for you keep LB up 100% of the time, and possible you are missing a Pyro here and there. I am not sure there's a real way to calculate the dps loss without just jumping on a better computer and comparing your results.

Gaspar · 01/07/09, 4:18 PM

Originally Posted by swiss

I am having some DPS issues. I had heard that a lower frame rate will lower dps.

How big a issue is frame rate to dps? Are we talking 50dps, 100dps, or like 200-300dps. Just trying to put a finger on the problem

What type of DPS issues in what type of content? Do you have a WWS parse of a specific encounter or area where you notice this lowered dps? What is your frame rate? Have you noticed a change in your frame rate? Do you use the Quartz add-on? Also, I noticed your gear is very bad in some slots.

Answering these questions would greatly help others in assisting you.

Gaspar · 01/07/09, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by Narcis

I apologize in advance if this has already been asked. I sifted through the forums a bit using the search function to see if anyone else had asked this question but I couldn't find anything. As a FFB mage I'm looking for a good debuff mod to keep track of imp scorch on the mob. I was using class timers before but it doesn't keep track of my other mages scorches if they got theirs up first. I played around with Debuff Filter but it also tracks my other mages LBs so I can't tell the difference between mine and theirs.

Any recommendations on a single mod? I have a feeling I'll end up using both Debuff Filter just to keep track of Scorch and Class Timers for my LB and other buffs.

Thanks in advance

As someone suggested, try Scorchio 2.

epoh · 01/07/09, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by Alouette

With my current gear setup, I have approximately 540 crit rating. The other mages I raid with have approximately 660, 680, and 730. Obviously, this means they are critting/hotstreaking a lot more. Is there anything I can do with my current gearset to proc more hot streaks via re-gemming, or will it be a net loss in overall damage? As it stands I am beginning to fall behind on damage, even though our gear is (fairly) similar.

I have tried to use the TCoM, but haven't found it a very intuitive tool as I'm not extremely deep into theorycrafting. I have also attempted to use Rawr Mage but while a lot more user friendly, I haven't been able to find the "best gems in slot" and such, or at what ratios crit/dmg/haste/hit work together. I am gearing toward 10-11% hit in 25s, as we typically have a spriest or moonkin, sometimes a draenei, and of course, 3% from EP.

The only things I could really change about my spec would to be take 2 out of Dragons Breath and Blastwave and put them into World in Flames, but my concern is not the amount of crits the Pyro will make, but the amount of Pyro's I'm proccing in the first place.

PS: If it helps, the armory names for my fellow raiding mages are: Kron, Smkizzle, and Icedd. I cannot see how they're obtaining such high crit rating while maintaining similar stats to me. I know my weapon doesn't have crit, but that's about the only glaring piece I can think of.

Oy, I don't know how I missed this earlier, but look at how much haste Icedd has compared to you. This is where your dps difference is coming from.

Gaspar · 01/07/09, 4:55 PM

Been arguing with two friends of mine about cool down stacking for mages in regards to Power Infusion, Icy Veins, and Bloodlust. Could someone knowledgeable break down exactly which portions of the buffs stack and by how much? (multiplicative vs. additive)

swiss · 01/07/09, 5:10 PM