Mage: Simple Questions/Simple Answers - Page 49

gerryq · 01/11/09, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by Genoo

I have a simple question... Do Mages have any viable raiding spec that isn't frostfire? All of them are Frostfire now, I have yet to see a level 80 raiding mage who isn't yet.

I'm frost, and far from the only one on our server. I know a couple of raiding arcane mages as well. Old style fire seems to have mostly died a death, though, probably because frostfire is so similar in mechanics.

Probably depends on the sort of guild you have, though.

gerryq · 01/11/09, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Knik

Since you're raiding Frost, you're more concerned with control / being able to play what you want. So any minor differences between your dps output with crit or haste is really trivial. Both will increase your dps by some. Spell Power will increase it by more then either. Mp5 is basically wasted itemization points for you.

First, the difference between crit and haste is not trivial for frost.

Second, the fact that you are sacrificing a bit of damage output which is probably not fully compensated by raid utility, focus magic and survivability should IMO make you try harder to get the most out of frost even in situations where it is inferior.

Third, my top tip for frost mages has always been to take the suggestions of fire mages with a big grain of salt. They don't understand that you want to be a kickass frost mage rather than a perversely specced or slacking fire mage!

manapaws · 01/11/09, 1:38 PM

Is there any mathematical benefit (or difference for that matter) in using haste potion and IV during bloodlust? Are they best used together or separate?

Shaewyn · 01/11/09, 5:08 PM

Absolutely a benefit.

Think of it this way: without any haste buffs, if I pop my trinket (15 seconds), and just cast FFB, I get 5 casts off. That's 5 casts with the trinket's benefit.

With bloodlust/heroism/speed potion/IV, my FFB casts are down to 1.5ish seconds, and I get 10 (9 actually) casts off with the trinket's benefit. By stacking the cooldowns, I've doubled the relative value of that trinket.

Maje · 01/11/09, 6:42 PM

Did a Kael'thas run today with some guildies and had two wierd things happen to me.

First the trash mobs somehow cleansed? LB and when they did, it exploded, not sure what happened I'm just certain it exploded before the duration was up.

Second I actually missed with scorch and pyro while having 290 hit rating and EP, and that's against Kael's advisors, and they are level 73 not boss, which shouldn't happen as far I know, I missed at least several times.

--regretfully I didn't have the log running

Zelyon · 01/11/09, 6:52 PM

Originally Posted by Maje

Second I actually missed with scorch and pyro while having 290 hit rating and EP, and that's against Kael's advisors, and they are level 73 not boss, which shouldn't happen as far I know, I missed at least several times.

There is always a 1% chance you will miss with a spell. This can't be overcome with hit rating.

willem11 · 01/11/09, 6:56 PM

Originally Posted by Zelyon

There is always a 1% chance you will miss with a spell. This can't be overcome with hit rating.

Your information is terribly outdated.

The 1% base miss chance has been removed during the 3.0 patch, you can achieve 100% hit chance now.

Maje the reason you could have missed is because your Spriest or balance druid wasnt keeping the +3% hit debuff up on all 4 advisors at once. Without the debuff up you need 368 spell hit +elemental precision to have 100% hit.

I believe all 'boss' monsters are treated as '3 lvls above yourself' by the game, at least for hit calculations. This means you need the same hitrate for any raid boss ingame, including lvl 70 or 60 bosses. I am not quite sure about this tho.

Apart from this there can be encounter specific reasons your missing, I dont believe this is the case at kael'thas tho.

willem11 · 01/11/09, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Pasture

I'd agree with this. Let's just try some 57/3/11 numbers out, Speccing 11 into frost gives 2xIcy Veins on most boss fights which is a straight dps increase in it's own right. Not to mention the -3% mana for more dps up-time and the 3% hit that allows us to favour gear with haste or crit over hit. Regardless of raid utility I'd like to see that TC for the dps of a 57/3/11 spec.

Chances are there will be another mage in the raid who is either fire, frostfire or frost. I know in my guild there always is. So let them apply the 10% crit debuff. Arcane mages are just wasting points speccing into fire for improved scorch in this situation. We can spec 57/3/11 and still have the benefit of the 10% crit debuff from another mage.

In this case you would have to calculate frostfire and fire dps also 'without casting scorch', to keep the damage comparison fair.

Maje · 01/11/09, 8:54 PM

The advisors are level 73 mobs, they are not boss level, at least they don't apear to be. And no the 1% miss is long since gone.

Batar · 01/12/09, 12:08 AM

Originally Posted by willem11

In this case you would have to calculate frostfire and fire dps also 'without casting scorch', to keep the damage comparison fair.

To be consistent you are right, but as i said before, the crit buff benefits these two specs to much not to cast it. While arcane is sitting with its terrible bonus of 50% and no other procs.

macbeet · 01/12/09, 3:49 AM

Originally Posted by Maje

LB and when they did, it exploded, not sure what happened I'm just certain it exploded before the duration was up.

Same thing happened to me in Battlegrouds twice---is there a way for Living Bomb to detonate before the twelve seconds are up?

Inoko · 01/12/09, 3:56 AM

Originally Posted by macbeet

Same thing happened to me in Battlegrouds twice---is there a way for Living Bomb to detonate before the twelve seconds are up?

The target becomes a Living Bomb, taking 1380 Fire damage over 12 sec. After 12 sec or when the spell is dispelled, the target explodes dealing 690 Fire damage to all enemies within 10 yards. This spell can only affect one target at a time.

Read the tooltip, it has all the information you could ever need.

willem11 · 01/12/09, 4:16 AM

Originally Posted by Maje

The advisors are level 73 mobs, they are not boss level, at least they don't apear to be. And no the 1% miss is long since gone.

I see, I have no clue then, must be some encounter specific mechanic.

manapaws · 01/12/09, 4:30 AM

Originally Posted by Shaewyn

Absolutely a benefit.

Think of it this way: without any haste buffs, if I pop my trinket (15 seconds), and just cast FFB, I get 5 casts off. That's 5 casts with the trinket's benefit.

With bloodlust/heroism/speed potion/IV, my FFB casts are down to 1.5ish seconds, and I get 10 (9 actually) casts off with the trinket's benefit. By stacking the cooldowns, I've doubled the relative value of that trinket.

Given that majority of trinkets are procs these days and not on a 'Use:' do you think that still applies?

Maje · 01/12/09, 5:22 AM

Originally Posted by Inoko

The target becomes a Living Bomb, taking 1380 Fire damage over 12 sec. After 12 sec or when the spell is dispelled, the target explodes dealing 690 Fire damage to all enemies within 10 yards. This spell can only affect one target at a time.

Read the tooltip, it has all the information you could ever need.

Oh, right, I completely forgot about that since the target dying doesn't make it explode (which is a wierd mechanic).