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Old 11/20/08, 12:59 PM   #61
manly
Soda Popinski
 
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Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
ffb pays no snare penalty. its been reported a long time ago. oh and frostbolt still does.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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Old 11/20/08, 1:04 PM   #62
manly
Soda Popinski
 
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Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
keep in mind that EP giving 6% hit to ffb means only ffb gets hitcap. It gets noticeable on your scorches (bad for refreshing) and on pyroblasts/living bomb. Personally I gun for 11% hit rating, but not because of the EP bug, mostly because I assume 3% hit from SP in the raid.

I wouldn't really put extraneous hit rating from gear to make my non ffb spells have 100% hit, but its something to keep in mind. The 'worth' of the bug is somewhat dubious as far as I'm concerned -- I want either full hitcap, all the time. That means either abusing the bug and only cast ffb, or ignore the bug and gear accordingly.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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Old 11/20/08, 1:13 PM   #63
Empyrea
Glass Joe
 
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Human Mage
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by manly View Post
What happens when you use Invisility during Mirror Image ?

I know it might sound random but its a very legitimate question. It could yield insight as to how the fade/mirror image mechanics actually work behind. Does it makes you go into negative threat ? Does it works as expected ? Does it makes invis do nothing ? I can conceive all of the 3 possible cases happen.
Your threat gets wiped after your invis finishes, then all the threat you build after that point comes back to you after the 30 seconds of MI expires.

A related question is why do the second plus round of cast images seemingly randomly gain an extremely high amount of threat on the boss you're fighting? Had some issues in the raid instances out now where sometimes when my MI cd came back up for the second time, upon using it the boss would suddenly turn to my images and move to gib them.

Edit: This is all after using invis during the first round of MIs so that by the time the second round comes back up my tank is so far ahead of me on threat that I'm just popping the MI for dps purposes.

ultra somnias ultra memorias omnia terminabit


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Old 11/20/08, 2:04 PM   #64
Roywyn
Bald Bull
 
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Roywyn
Gnome Mage
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by zetrac View Post
Any idea why the scale factor is so high for hit with this build ?
Hit is high for any build, which is why you want to cap it.

Originally Posted by Chentoka View Post
Does anyone have tested coefficient numbers for post-3.0.3 Frostfire Bolt? I've been hunting around for them to no avail.

(edited: I found the handy guide to calculating standard spell coefficients and actually used my brain!)
I hate to break it to you, but you're totally off. Check the first page of the Mage WotLK thread.
3/3.5 on the direct hit, 0 on the DoT.

Originally Posted by Light4 View Post
I tried it on the "bosses" in Utgarde, we had a feral with IW and my ABar damage increased after IW was applied. There were no other classes/buffs around that could account for about 2xx more damage on individual hits. I also know the approximate damage numbers from grinding if I do FrB - AB - ABar or just AB - ABar, the former arcane casts are always abut 2xx higher.
Arcane Barrage having a damage range doen't exactly help, and your description is pretty vague as well.
I don't want to sound rude, but there's been lots of back and forth and people randomly mentioning debuffs without any testing.

Could you or anyone else do a test with Arcane Missiles and no procs and record the damage before IW (right on the pull) and afterwards, perhaps with a screenie?

Would probably be best to make a separate thread for Torment.


Originally Posted by Empyrea View Post
Your threat gets wiped after your invis finishes, then all the threat you build after that point comes back to you after the 30 seconds of MI expires.

A related question is why do the second plus round of cast images seemingly randomly gain an extremely high amount of threat on the boss you're fighting? Had some issues in the raid instances out now where sometimes when my MI cd came back up for the second time, upon using it the boss would suddenly turn to my images and move to gib them.

Edit: This is all after using invis during the first round of MIs so that by the time the second round comes back up my tank is so far ahead of me on threat that I'm just popping the MI for dps purposes.
The Mirror Images gain your threat, but that shouldn't make them pull aggro.
Maybe they get the threat that you would have if you hadn't used invisibility?

Not that it makes any sense, but pulling aggro makes even less sense.
Does it happen consistently or just sometimes? A screenie when that happens might help perhaps.

Last edited by Roywyn : 11/20/08 at 2:09 PM.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

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Old 11/20/08, 2:33 PM   #65
Kraralis
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Talnivarr (EU)
Deep freeze

How long does deep freeze last?

I've noticed that the cast sequence deep freeze - frostbolt - ice lance - ice lance works, with the final ice lance still hitting the target in deep freeze. This sequence should take 5.5 seconds, so for this to be possible would require 10% haste, in a perfect zero lag situation. Yet with neither of these things ( 8% haste and 150 ms) it's routine to pull out this combo.

I'm convinced it's not a frostbite / FoF proc making it look like ice lance is hitting deep freeze. So does deep freeze last longer than 5s?

Last edited by Kraralis : 11/20/08 at 3:11 PM.

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Old 11/20/08, 3:10 PM   #66
Empyrea
Glass Joe
 
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Human Mage
 
Sen'jin
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
The Mirror Images gain your threat, but that shouldn't make them pull aggro.
Maybe they get the threat that you would have if you hadn't used invisibility?

Not that it makes any sense, but pulling aggro makes even less sense.
Does it happen consistently or just sometimes? A screenie when that happens might help perhaps.
Well, to explain things a bit better, there is case 1: I pull aggro off my tank then cast MI, if the tank's taunt is resisted the boss proceeds to gib my images. In this case, I know that this is intended behavior, however in case 2: my invis finishes at some point in time during a MI and the next MI I cast (during the same fight) has a sudden insane jump in aggro and rips aggro on the boss from the tank, although I am no where to be seen on the threat list, and in the split second before the tank reacts said boss turns to the image and does some aoe to wipe the raid. It is not a consistent occurrence by any means, but it has happened to me during Sapphiron and Malygos most memorably at times. I'll try to stick up a screen shot if I'm fast enough next time it happens.

Last edited by Empyrea : 11/20/08 at 3:12 PM. Reason: clarification

ultra somnias ultra memorias omnia terminabit


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Old 11/20/08, 5:27 PM   #67
Lurker
Von Kaiser
 
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Blood Elf Mage
 
Moon Guard
Quick inquiry: Does 2pcT7 stack with the glyph / SCB? (You gain 40% more mana when you use a mana gem. In addition, using a mana gem grants you 225 spell power for 15 sec.)

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Old 11/20/08, 6:54 PM   #68
Tyrian
Bald Bull
 
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Human Mage
 
Frostmourne
Guys: The new forum layout makes it more practical (and encourages) players to create threads on class-specific topics, instead of relying on megathreads. With that said, its a little silly reading this thread when a sizeable chunk of the conversation is about Frostfire (mechanics + builds) and another chunk about Spec-specific playstyle, such as Frost. These sorts of things are intended to get new threads where a full topic can be wholly devoted to their dissection.

Frostfire definetely needs its own topic for discussion. A full write-up and review of mechanics, relevant talents, item stat values, general Q and A (it still is a source of confusion for many players) etc, suitable talent specs, playstyle - etc . The same could be said for each of the talent trees, mage-specific related combat mechanics (hit/stat values for a given spec/mirror image workings), mage-specific levelling tips and advice etc.

I understand people are apprehensive to create new topics, but the current state of this forum does not reflect the intended goal of the new forum structure - namely: focused discussion on class-specific topics under a relevant sub-forum.

My question for the 'simple answers/questions' thread is: What are some topics mages feel are worthy of their own thread for discussion in this subforum? I mentioned frostfire as one, would like to hear some more suggestions and flesh this forum out a little more.

Last edited by Tyrian : 11/20/08 at 7:00 PM.

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Old 11/20/08, 8:32 PM   #69
manly
Soda Popinski
 
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Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Well, the goal isn't to make an explosion of threads either, namely one for one and every possible subject.

1- mechanics (specific non-obvious uses for talents, or bugs)
2- theorycraft. I would also put everything more related toward 'what is the standard formula for fireball dps'.
3- faq
4- 'welcome to the mages forums, basic information for new mages'
5- maybe one thread per major spec. I would probably dumb it down to 'arcane/fire/frost' and no 'deep-fire/fireball' and deep-fire/ffb' subdivision.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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Old 11/21/08, 4:00 AM   #70
dmxcom
Banned
 
Human Mage
 
Arthas (EU)
Hello. I am a long time Reader on this Forums. But now i have a Question to Blizz´s Itemisation.
Sorry for my Bad English
In Naxx 10 and 25 there are many Spelldamage + Crit Items. And as long as i see in the First Post from the Mage Informational Thread, FFB Specc´s seems to scale very Good with +Crit.
But why is on this Items so many Spirit and MP5. I always have a Bad Feeling to grap this Items and let me always think to get eventually the Damage+Haste Items.
So .. wich ones should i take ??
Help :P

Many Thanks in advance and gratz to everyone that can read my bad Text ^^

Last edited by dmxcom : 11/21/08 at 4:50 AM.

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Old 11/21/08, 5:02 AM   #71
Swindley
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
About hand mounted rocket launcher

I've been searching abit, but couldnt find the answer. Noticed the question was already asked in the profession thread, but no conclusions.

Simple question, does the engineering hand mounted rocket launcher benefit from mage talents? Would it cause ignite? I'm asking here because it's specificly related to mages and this enchant, concidering all the firedmg boosting talents we have.

I know it might not be an optimal enchant compared to regular hand enchant, since it causes a GCD, but I like it and I think it's fun! Fire talents would just help it not suck so bad.

So, any firemages tested this yet?

Last edited by Swindley : 11/21/08 at 8:11 AM.

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Old 11/21/08, 10:01 AM   #72
Gleeful
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Magtheridon
Anyone know if glyph of arcane intellect works for Dalaran Intellect / Brilliance?

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Old 11/21/08, 11:50 AM   #73
Chentoka
Glass Joe
 
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Troll Mage
 
Al'Akir (EU)
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
I hate to break it to you, but you're totally off. Check the first page of the Mage WotLK thread.
3/3.5 on the direct hit, 0 on the DoT.
Originally Posted by 3.0.3 patch notes
Frostfire Bolt: The periodic damage effect from Rank 2 of this spell now benefits from spell power gains
Apologies for picking at this further; I had checked the wotlk thread first but assumed FFB hadn't been updated for 3.0.3 yet. I don't know who to believe anymore!

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Old 11/21/08, 2:22 PM   #74
 Seonid
Commander Nexus
 
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Human Mage
 
Anachronos (EU)
Originally Posted by Gleeful View Post
Anyone know if glyph of arcane intellect works for Dalaran Intellect / Brilliance?
It does, yes.

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Old 11/21/08, 3:34 PM   #75
DeimosXI
Glass Joe
 
Djmessiah
Blood Elf Mage
 
Aman'Thul
Originally Posted by dmxcom View Post
Hello. I am a long time Reader on this Forums. But now i have a Question to Blizz´s Itemisation.
Sorry for my Bad English
In Naxx 10 and 25 there are many Spelldamage + Crit Items. And as long as i see in the First Post from the Mage Informational Thread, FFB Specc´s seems to scale very Good with +Crit.
But why is on this Items so many Spirit and MP5. I always have a Bad Feeling to grap this Items and let me always think to get eventually the Damage+Haste Items.
So .. wich ones should i take ??
Help :P

Many Thanks in advance and gratz to everyone that can read my bad Text ^^
The cloth Spirit and + MP5 items would be aimed at priests as healing gear. A mage should never be stacking MP5 or spirit for mana gains in any case, intellect is your friend.

Pass up the spi/mp5 gear and go for maximum spell damage, hit to cap, haste, crit and int.

Edit: Personally I would take haste over crit if you're left with a decent amount of mana on most encounters, if you struggle for mana, take crit over haste.

Last edited by DeimosXI : 11/21/08 at 4:04 PM.

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