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Old 03/07/09, 6:59 PM   #1251
epoh
Piston Honda
 
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Human Mage
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by PantheraOnca View Post
I've read many (but not all) of the pages in this thread, and did not see my question here, nor did I see it in the arcane thread:

Has anyone done any math on what levels of maximum mana (and therefore intellect), you would need to sustain a max dps Arcane rotation (AB*x mbarr) and maintain your own mana with just evocate? with evocate and replenishment?

How about the other rotations, as given in the Arcane thread?

Should I post these questions in the Arcane thread?
The reason this hasn't been posted is because there is not simple answer. There are several factors that will effect this - raid makeup, how active is replenishment (dependent on other people's crit rating, etc), how high is the raid's dps (how long the fights take), for start. I generally have around 22k mana and 650mp5 while casting during 25man raids. If we are doing well and the bosses are coming down in under 3 mins, I can do almost entirely ABspan until MB procs, making use of gems, a crazy alchemist's pot and evocate is necessary.

Honestly, another reason is that it's not really something you should worry about. You should be stacking spellpower whenever possible and then haste then crit after that. Int, spirit and mp5 are all lower down the list. It's already been shown that a tighter rotation using Molten Armor is higher dps than the alternative.
 
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Old 03/07/09, 10:06 PM   #1252
homet
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
Shadow Council
Originally Posted by epoh View Post
It's already been shown that a tighter rotation using Molten Armor is higher dps than the alternative.
While theoretically true (and plenty of us mages have been successfully pulling this off with Molten Armor) it is much more difficult to keep your mana if you do not do your rotations perfectly; you will go OOM and short of cooldowns before the fight ends. Anecdotally, I have heard and experienced shortages at between 3% and 10% of boss health. Clearly, this means we who play will need to work harder, but one can achieve near-same DPS with mage armor and a much looser rotation. This is especially true during fights whose length expands beyond 5 to 7 minutes.
 
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Old 03/07/09, 11:24 PM   #1253
Batar
Glass Joe
 
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Human Mage
 
Doomhammer
Would someone be willing to take a look at this wws parse and give me a critique. Wow Web Stats
All that i can see is that it looks like i spend alot of time not casting, i dont really know how to increase that without getting burned alive. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
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Old 03/08/09, 4:42 AM   #1254
Coilsthewarlock
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Warlock
 
Deathwing
Frost in PvP?

I see a lot of arcane mages (like myself) running around in pvp and I'd say I do alright but every time I come across a frost mage he/she seems to be doing better than me. I don't know if its just a coincidence or not. But I would like to know what is the "best" PvP spec for both battlegrounds and 2v2 for my purposes ?
 
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Old 03/08/09, 4:04 PM   #1255
Masaru
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Mage
 
Dentarg
I have a question about haste capping that I can't find a good answer on for the life of me. This might be a commonly known answer, but...

I'm currently using FFB spec. I have [Embrace of the Spider] and Hyperspeed Accelerators and it occurs to me that I've never really noticed them giving me what should be 354 (base) + 505 (Embrace) + 340 (Hyper-Speed) = 1,199 haste (36% haste?), much less when Icy Veins goes off. With all these haste mechanics, am I coming up against a cap?
 
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Old 03/08/09, 5:46 PM   #1256
BeeLz
Don Flamenco
 
Undead Mage
 
Frostmane (EU)
Originally Posted by Batar View Post
Would someone be willing to take a look at this wws parse and give me a critique. Wow Web Stats
All that i can see is that it looks like i spend alot of time not casting, i dont really know how to increase that without getting burned alive. Any advice would be appreciated.
Well if your dps time is low it's obvious that you are moving too much or ineffiecently. So all I can say is try to position yourself better, put yourself on the spot where you shouldn't get hit by 1 of the 2 firewalls, use blink for firewalls and use instants when moving.
 
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Old 03/08/09, 9:31 PM   #1257
epoh
Piston Honda
 
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Human Mage
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by homet View Post
While theoretically true (and plenty of us mages have been successfully pulling this off with Molten Armor) it is much more difficult to keep your mana if you do not do your rotations perfectly; you will go OOM and short of cooldowns before the fight ends. Anecdotally, I have heard and experienced shortages at between 3% and 10% of boss health. Clearly, this means we who play will need to work harder, but one can achieve near-same DPS with mage armor and a much looser rotation. This is especially true during fights whose length expands beyond 5 to 7 minutes.
Oh, no doubt, I personally run with glyphed mage armor because my raids can vary so much and I don't always have the external mana sources I'd need to run molten.
 
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Old 03/08/09, 11:44 PM   #1258
LiquidHAL
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Hyjal
Originally Posted by epoh View Post
Oh, no doubt, I personally run with glyphed mage armor because my raids can vary so much and I don't always have the external mana sources I'd need to run molten.
If lack of replenishment is often an issue you should probably go FFB. It's extremely mana efficient. Arcane pulls ahead of FFB under ideal conditions, but without replenish it falls behind, and without glyphed molten armor up your DPS will be way down regardless.
 
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Old 03/09/09, 5:13 AM   #1259
Vardur
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Die Nachtwache (EU)
How much better is the Molten Armor-Glyph than the Arcane Missiles-Glyph in DPS? In the last weeks i raided with the AM-Glyph.
 
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Old 03/09/09, 6:00 AM   #1260
Junlex
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Anachronos (EU)
What other glyphs are you running? For arcane the top DPS glyphs are Arcane Blast, Arcane Missiles and Molten Armor.

Edit; sorry, brainfart, corrected Arcane Blast glyph

Last edited by Junlex : 03/10/09 at 11:52 AM.
 
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Old 03/09/09, 6:09 AM   #1261
willem11
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Junlex View Post
What other glyphs are you running? For arcane the top DPS glyphs are Arcane Barrage, Arcane Missiles and Molten Armor.
arcane blast>arcane barrage
 
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Old 03/09/09, 7:59 AM   #1262
Vardur
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Die Nachtwache (EU)
Originally Posted by Junlex View Post
What other glyphs are you running? For arcane the top DPS glyphs are Arcane Barrage, Arcane Missiles and Molten Armor.
Actually I'm running on Arcane Power, Arcane Missiles and Arcane Blast on live server.
 
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Old 03/09/09, 2:07 PM   #1263
epoh
Piston Honda
 
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Human Mage
 
Kargath
Originally Posted by LiquidHAL View Post
If lack of replenishment is often an issue you should probably go FFB. It's extremely mana efficient. Arcane pulls ahead of FFB under ideal conditions, but without replenish it falls behind, and without glyphed molten armor up your DPS will be way down regardless.
My dps actually went up nearly 1k when I switched to Arcane. I haven't tried FFB again since the last patch, but that's mainly because I love arcane.
 
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Old 03/09/09, 3:12 PM   #1264
TantalusHyjal
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Hyjal
The extra three seconds that you get with Arcane Power Glyph are not worth the 2% to crit that you lose by replacing the Molten Armor Glyph.

And in the new rotation Abarr is not used as commonly as it was pre this patch, making the already better Glyph of Arcane Blast even more superior.
 
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Old 03/09/09, 7:10 PM   #1265
Duravi
Piston Honda
 
Undead Mage
 
Kil'Jaeden
I have a question about haste capping that I can't find a good answer on for the life of me. This might be a commonly known answer, but...

I'm currently using FFB spec. I have [Embrace of the Spider] and Hyperspeed Accelerators and it occurs to me that I've never really noticed them giving me what should be 354 (base) + 505 (Embrace) + 340 (Hyper-Speed) = 1,199 haste (36% haste?), much less when Icy Veins goes off. With all these haste mechanics, am I coming up against a cap?
The hard cap is the one second gcd, if having more haste reduces your cast time below that you still have to wait for gcd before your next cast. That's the easy answer.

The harder answer is that the more of one dmg stat you have the better it makes the others and the worse it becomes point for point to those others in comparison. This is why (if you dont throw in combustion cannibalizing) 200 crit and 200 dmg from wild magic ends up being better for frostfire than 500 haste, if you look at the weightings before you add the numbers in it would seem to be the opposite. But each time you add one of those points of haste in the relative value of haste to dmg/crit goes down a small amount, and adding 500 points is significant.
 
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Old 03/10/09, 11:54 AM   #1266
Junlex
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Paladin
 
Anachronos (EU)
Originally Posted by Vardur View Post
Actually I'm running on Arcane Power, Arcane Missiles and Arcane Blast on live server.
Sorry, yes, I meant Glyph of Arcane Blast rather than Arcane Barrage (which doesn't even exist on live). My mistake, corrected now. It was determined that Molten Armor is superior to the Arcane Power glyph in the Arcane thread I'm fairly sure.
 
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Old 03/10/09, 10:48 PM   #1267
Aremihc
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Mug'thol
Netherwind Presence

So, I was doing the math for Netherwind Presence, and I can't figure it out. In-game, I show a "real-world" haste of 21.13%. My paperdoll shows 16.38%(537 rating). Adding my haste and NP comes up with 22.38%, which is higher than it really is. Applying them seperate comes up with 19.23%, which is lower than actual. Applying NP to my native casts and increasing my haste by it comes up with 19.99% also lower than actual... Can someone clarify? Thanks.
 
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Old 03/11/09, 12:49 AM   #1268
 manly
Soda Popinski
 
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Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
final_cast_time = talented_cast_time / (1 + total_haste_rating / haste_rating_per_percent / 100) / netherwind_presence / wrath_of_air [/ retribution_aura or imp_moonkin_aura] [/ bloodlust or power_infusion] [/ icy veins] [/ berserking]

in other words, youre calculating haste the wrong way


Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.
 
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Old 03/11/09, 3:33 AM   #1269
jinjaka
Glass Joe
 
jinjaka
Troll Mage
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
hi mages.

I know the cap hit in spé 0/53/18 is 265.

what is the cap in spé 18/53/0 plz ??

thanks for the answers
 
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Old 03/11/09, 4:29 AM   #1270
Pye
Von Kaiser
 
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Undead Mage
 
Deathwing (EU)
Originally Posted by jinjaka View Post
hi mages.

I know the cap hit in spé 0/53/18 is 265.

what is the cap in spé 18/53/0 plz ??
No.

Originally Posted by manly View Post
%Spell Hit Rating (lvl 80)Typical casedraenai %Spell Hit with draenai
17%445.94387624hit cap16%419.71188352
14%367.24789808EP or (no EP + misery/improved faerie fire)13%341.01590536
11%288.55191992EP + misery/improved faerie fire10%262.3199272
8%209.85594176EP+AF (57/3/11) + misery/improved faerie fire7%183.62394904
1%26.23199272   
 
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Old 03/11/09, 8:38 AM   #1271
jinjaka
Glass Joe
 
jinjaka
Troll Mage
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
cap hit in spe 18/53/0 is 367 unbuff ?

outch..
 
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Old 03/11/09, 9:14 AM   #1272
Magelove
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Kilrogg (EU)
Originally Posted by jinjaka View Post
cap hit in spe 18/53/0 is 367 unbuff ?

outch..
No.

Hit cap is 445 unbuffed.

Your reading the table wrong, seen as your horde you wont gain dranei racial hit so ignore that. Also FB spec does not take Precision talent so ignore that too. You should be looking at the hit caps with misery/fairyfire depending on your raid composition.
 
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Old 03/11/09, 10:16 AM   #1273
Baruk
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Ysera (EU)
so 367 is indeed correct if you always have a spriest/oomkin

Per Aspera ad Astra
 
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Old 03/11/09, 10:29 AM   #1274
Pheroz
Don Flamenco
 
Troll Mage
 
Malfurion
Rounding is a good way to surprise yourself when the rare event happens, as its is still possible. 368 is the number needed to cap your spell hit with misery/imp FF. Just as 446 is required with no raid buffs.
 
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Old 03/11/09, 1:28 PM   #1275
Light4
Piston Honda
 
Gnome Mage
 
Der Rat von Dalaran (EU)
This, however, reduces the relative value of the last point of hit, so keep that in mind, when comparing item sets that have their weak spot in that last point.
 
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