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Old 01/13/09, 3:20 PM   #751
Ranch
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Chromaggus
Originally Posted by willem11 View Post
Your information is terribly outdated.

The 1% base miss chance has been removed during the 3.0 patch, you can achieve 100% hit chance now.
Only for pve.

In PVP they did not remove the 1% miss chance(bug, not addressed by Blizzard yet)

Also you cannot cap spell hit against players that have a resist talent or racial, for example gnome racial(2% arcane resist) means no matter the hit rating your arcane attacks against him cap at 97%(1% base miss). Ret pallys notoriously have 4% spell resist which cannot be overcome. (95% cap)

I hope this is fixed.

Also, smart boomkins will not put on faerie fire, the GCD is a lack of personal dps, and I think it takes 6 people benefiting for it to break even. This should probably be changed, faerie fire refreshing on starfall attacks or something.(talent suggestion)

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Old 01/13/09, 4:59 PM   #752
Gwendoline
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Nordrassil
Originally Posted by Ranch View Post
Also, smart boomkins will not put on faerie fire, the GCD is a lack of personal dps, and I think it takes 6 people benefiting for it to break even. This should probably be changed, faerie fire refreshing on starfall attacks or something.(talent suggestion)
3% hit on 6 people for it to balance a GDC every 40 sec ? I never did the math myself but i highly doubt it. also it increase crit %. It's a given that in a raid it is likely a mage will keep the +10% crit up. But if you average people's DPS in raid to be between 3000-4000 6 people hitting 3% more seems an insane number to compensate on 1 GCD of the boomkin every 40 sec.

I mean it seems to be in the ballpark of losing more than 600 DPS raid wide for 40 sec compared to 1 GDC ? 1.5 second would be a loss of about 6000 damage every 40 sec from the boomkin, ( about 130 DPS ), also it is easily reapplied when you need to move etc ( instant), it seems to me that if you actually have about 2 or 3 casters needing 3% more hit, it's already better to keep FF up.

Anyway in our raid a boomkin keep imp FF up.

Last edited by Gwendoline : 01/13/09 at 5:17 PM.

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Old 01/13/09, 6:45 PM   #753
Ranch
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Chromaggus
Originally Posted by Gwendoline View Post
3% hit on 6 people for it to balance a GDC every 40 sec ? I never did the math myself but i highly doubt it. also it increase crit %. It's a given that in a raid it is likely a mage will keep the +10% crit up. But if you average people's DPS in raid to be between 3000-4000 6 people hitting 3% more seems an insane number to compensate on 1 GCD of the boomkin every 40 sec.

I mean it seems to be in the ballpark of losing more than 600 DPS raid wide for 40 sec compared to 1 GDC ? 1.5 second would be a loss of about 6000 damage every 40 sec from the boomkin, ( about 130 DPS ), also it is easily reapplied when you need to move etc ( instant), it seems to me that if you actually have about 2 or 3 casters needing 3% more hit, it's already better to keep FF up.

Anyway in our raid a boomkin keep imp FF up.
You are right, my numbers are off. However, and I apologize for this now, but I often assume perfect group makeup and buffs and everything, especially WOTLK 25 man.

If your 25 man group does not have a shadow priest, you are missing a very important role, as you would need 2 ret paladins to keep replenish on the 20 mana users(guestimate). And ret pally dps does not compare to SP, especially AOE fights. However in Ulduar gear I fear most melee will pull ahead of all casters but Frostfire mages and maybe Afflic locks.

But this thread is not about Boomkins;

I have a not so simple question:

I have around 18% haste in a raid enviroment.
During heroism(bloodlust) and Icy veins my GCD is like 0.7, during just heroism my GCD is 0.94 or something.

#1 Should I weave in living bomb during hero+IV?
#2 Should I weave in living bomb during just hero?

Both my trinkets are proc trinkets and uncontrollable, can be ignored for this question.

I already know I should not living bomb if the target will not live for another 12 seconds.

Thinking ahead on a what-if situation: Do you think Blizzard will itemize haste later on that gives a higher % than in TBC? the realistic cap was around 25-28% haste for a mage(sunwell), I assume this will be the goal also in Icecrown gear. Or will we reach new levels?

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Old 01/14/09, 4:59 AM   #754
thunderstung
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Spirestone
I'm trying to correct my living bomb usage in raids. I've noticed that I often let LB fall off if I'm in 20 seconds of bloodlust + icy veins heaven. I assume that there's a FFB cast speed where opting to refresh LB actually becomes a DPS loss, but given the 1.0s cap I'm not sure it's attainable.

So, should I worry about refreshing LB during bloodlusted icy veins or keep spamming 1.6s FFBs?

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Old 01/14/09, 5:03 AM   #755
manly
Soda Popinski
 
manly's Avatar
 
Troll Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
I never cast LB during icy veins/lust.

<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS.
Very Manly Staff

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Old 01/14/09, 7:00 AM   #756
TyrianeKdV
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Kult der Verdammten (EU)
Concerning a 53/0/18 spec (with Ice Shards and Piercing Ice) and 3.0.8; the question arises, whether to use AB or Frostbolt on PoM.

The average damage of a single Frostbolt (without glyph) ist slightly higher than AB's (0 stacks).
However the Frostbolt benefits much more from the +30% crit provided by Arc Potency because of it's higher crit multiplier, on the other hand the AB provides the +15(20)% damage stack.

Of course this is not an issue on regular clearcasts, since one won't have 5/5 Improved Frostbolt.

So on PoM they should be quite close regarding dps. However, I am unsure which one is ahead?

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Old 01/14/09, 9:09 AM   #757
thescreensavers
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Gilneas
Originally Posted by thunderstung View Post
I'm trying to correct my living bomb usage in raids. I've noticed that I often let LB fall off if I'm in 20 seconds of bloodlust + icy veins heaven. I assume that there's a FFB cast speed where opting to refresh LB actually becomes a DPS loss, but given the 1.0s cap I'm not sure it's attainable.

So, should I worry about refreshing LB during bloodlusted icy veins or keep spamming 1.6s FFBs?

I usually slack with the LB also when Hero gets popped, manly says he does not cast it but I try to pop it again when I need to scorch, also your using Icy Vains with hero and your cast being below 2 sec cast is a dps nerf because of ignite pop IV right after hero is up. If this is wrong some one correct me.

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Old 01/14/09, 9:11 AM   #758
thescreensavers
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Gilneas
I have a simple question.

Best in slot >4pc T7 ? or is 4pc T7> Best in slots

4pc being Helm/shoulders/gloves/leggings ( if there is a better combo please say )


in terms of DPS.

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Old 01/14/09, 10:07 AM   #759
Swindley
Piston Honda
 
Human Mage
 
Frostwhisper (EU)
Originally Posted by thescreensavers View Post
I usually slack with the LB also when Hero gets popped, manly says he does not cast it but I try to pop it again when I need to scorch, also your using Icy Vains with hero and your cast being below 2 sec cast is a dps nerf because of ignite pop IV right after hero is up. If this is wrong some one correct me.
Yes this is wrong. You should stack CD's during Heroism, including icy veins. This will increase your dps because they amplify eachother. Cast time below 2 seconds is not a DPS nerf by any means.

Originally Posted by thescreensavers View Post
I have a simple question.

Best in slot >4pc T7 ? or is 4pc T7> Best in slots

4pc being Helm/shoulders/gloves/leggings ( if there is a better combo please say )

in terms of DPS.
I believe robe is a better alternative than helm for 4 piece. The best in slot indicate robe, legs, shoulders and gloves as best combination for frostfire (with gothics cowl). T7.5 helm simply sucks. However for the new fireball spec someone indicated that head might be a better item for 4 piece in combination with Heigans chest. I'm guessing it is because Fire/Arc can use the extra hit cause of no EP.

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Old 01/14/09, 12:25 PM   #760
Lije93
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Daggerspine
Long time reader, first time writer here.

I've rolled through a lot of these forums since 3.0.8 was announced, and was curious about a few things.

1) What is the recommended rotation for Arcane going to be? 1 AB -> ABarr, AM on MB proc, 3 AB -> ABarr, AM on MB proc during AP/IV/BL? Also, should I save the MB proc for when an AB charge is up (or 3 during haste buffs) or just spend the MB proc on AM asap?

2) What is the top DPS spec currently in 3.0.8? I've seen multiple posts saying Arcane will be raid viable/competitive yet again, but that Deep Fire will be able to pass FFB after the hit change and Thunderclap applying to TtW. (Assuming the mage has enough hit already to reach 17% for all specs while raid buffed.) Then I see spread sheets where arcane is ahead of both, and get confused.

SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code

It shows 57/3/11 being the top for a mage. Explanation? I think I'm getting confused somewhere.

Last edited by Lije93 : 01/14/09 at 12:32 PM.

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Old 01/14/09, 1:01 PM   #761
Ranch
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Chromaggus
To be clear, the reason I question weaving in Living Bomb during heroism and icy veins is my GCD is always under 1.0 during those, and since that is the cap, there is .2 seconds wasted for example. For extreme scenarios if my GCD was .1 seconds, if I spammed scorch I would waste .9 seconds every cast, and could not cast anything in between.

Yes this is wrong. You should stack CD's during Heroism, including icy veins. This will increase your dps because they amplify each other. Cast time below 2 seconds is not a DPS nerf by any means.
since many of us have finally replaced hex shrunken head, shifting naaru sliver and skull of guldan, the time of activated trinkets is gone. Ulduar will probably have one though. Anyway since +dmg is not on command, the math is less clear on IV and Hero benefiting each other, but you must keep in mind molten fury is basically a +dmg trinket proc, and haste benefits it so much. Also speed potions are way better than the new destruction potions.

And from a realist viewpoint, most people pop heroism when the boss is around 25-35% anyway, there won't be time for IV after heroism faded. Exception being OS 3 or 2 drakes with hero on Tenebron but whatever.

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Old 01/14/09, 1:18 PM   #762
Ranch
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Chromaggus
Originally Posted by Lije93 View Post
Then I see spread sheets where arcane is ahead of both, and get confused.

SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code

It shows 57/3/11 being the top for a mage. Explanation? I think I'm getting confused somewhere.
You must be careful with those spreadsheets. I'll explain- if you click that link, go to the bottom, and click "lootrank" for any spec really that needs hit rating. You will notice that epic hit gems are in every socket imaginable, the spreadsheet is not programmed to reach "hit cap". The gear that this simulation is running collectively has like 700 hit rating-(would make rogues cream).

You might argue that every mage spec has 3% hit now from talents, and 6% if you go arcane and 8 frost. However since FFB has a better scaling factor with spell damage, which is the obvious choice for most mage specs for gems, it would be a connection to say that 300 +damage from all this hit gems turned into +dmg gems would benefit FFB spec better than frost, arcane or fireball spec. Long sentence, wasn't sure how to cut it up.

I'm not saying arcane is not on the top, I'm just saying take that spreadsheet lightly. As a matter of fact I wish Rawr had a hit calculator which put hit gems into yellow sockets first until cap then stopped.

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Old 01/14/09, 2:06 PM   #763
Enthorn
Don Flamenco
 
Enthorn's Avatar
 
Undead Mage
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Ranch View Post
I'm not saying arcane is not on the top, I'm just saying take that spreadsheet lightly. As a matter of fact I wish Rawr had a hit calculator which put hit gems into yellow sockets first until cap then stopped.
This is easily accomplished by populating all sockets with gems. You could just use the regem option in Optimizer, but I've never understood it (is it regemming if it's checked, or not checked? I don't know!) On the first line, I enter [Runed Scarlet Ruby], [Veiled Monarch Topaz], and [Glowing Twilight Opal]. Do the same thing on the next line, but use [Potent Monarch Topaz] instead. Repeat this on the third line with [Reckless Monarch Topaz]. On the fourth line, set all gems to [Runed Scarlet Ruby].

You should be using a filtered item cache, else you will have an unbelievably high number of items.

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Old 01/14/09, 2:12 PM   #764
deadlyice
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
Moon Guard
Quick question regarding the upcoming Torment the Weak changes.

Does this mean that Judgement of the Just will also make TTW active? So, since we have a Pally tank in our raids, TTW will always be up?

Also, Does the Arcane spec become more powerful because of scaling, because 18/53/0 Frostfire build would boost Frostfire by 12% as well, wouldn't it?

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Old 01/14/09, 2:29 PM   #765
 nathanbp
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Mage
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by deadlyice View Post
Quick question regarding the upcoming Torment the Weak changes.

Does this mean that Judgement of the Just will also make TTW active? So, since we have a Pally tank in our raids, TTW will always be up?

Also, Does the Arcane spec become more powerful because of scaling, because 18/53/0 Frostfire build would boost Frostfire by 12% as well, wouldn't it?
Yes, Judgement of the Just will activate TTW.

18/53/0 Fire with TTW is a viable spec. 18/53/0 Frostfire loses out on its huge crit bonus, so is not a great spec.

Edit: Oops, I misread your 2nd question somewhat. The numbers are somewhat still up in the air, but it seems like Deep Arcane, Deep Fire/Arcane casting Fireballs, and Deep Fire/Frost casting Frostfire Bolt are all likely to be viable specs in 3.0.8. Exactly which one is the highest dps is still up for debate, in particular how good Arcane is going to be and what the exact rotation to use is. The general conclusion on Deep Fire/Arcane vs Frostfire seems to be that Fire will be slightly higher damage at the cost of somewhat worse mana efficiency and worse AOE.

Last edited by nathanbp : 01/14/09 at 2:35 PM.

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