as for the mana pot bug, if I disclose it here I assure you its getting hotfixed the same day. But its enough hint that anyone thinking about it can find it.
edit: bah screw it. its pretty well known by now.
Last edited by manly : 06/30/09 at 1:56 AM.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
Do sheeps still break randomly in raids? I have not really noticed it in Wotlk (perhaps because you almost never use polymorph these days). I remember Sunwell where it could be quite annoying and one of my fellow mages claimed they still break without damage sometimes. Or did they fix that when they got rid of 1%spellmiss cap?
I'd strongly suggest you get an addon like CCBreaker.
I used to believe sheep broke randomly. The addon tells me otherwise and lets me know who to shout at if their name keeps appearing on the list.
Naxx made people lazy, one giant AoE fest and you will find that for some its a hard habit to break (esp the melee!) so they break our sheep instead.
To save space I'll add my question here:
Of the current T7/8/9 set bonus's which are actually worth taking? Ive heard some mages say they wont take T8x4 because they feel T7x2 is a stronger bonus, Ive also looked at the T9 and am underwhelmed to say the least but my maths isnt so hot nor my theorycrafting so if someone has crunched the numbers already (or wishes to do so) I would greatly appreciate it.
Of the current T7/8/9 set bonus's which are actually worth taking? Ive heard some mages say they wont take T8x4 because they feel T7x2 is a stronger bonus, Ive also looked at the T9 and am underwhelmed to say the least but my maths isnt so hot nor my theorycrafting so if someone has crunched the numbers already (or wishes to do so) I would greatly appreciate it.
It totally depends on your spec, and your gear. Rawr will answer any questions you have and then some about t7/t8 and all other available gear. You'll find 4pc t8 is really good for fire, while 2pc t7 remains fairly solid for arcane (depending on your gear level) in general.
Once we're closer to t9 and the set bonuses are a little more solidified, I'm sure those will be worked into rawr as well, but at this point its a bit early to be worried too much about it.
Last edited by Reignman : 06/30/09 at 9:48 AM.
Reason: fixed spelling.
Hit. the biggest difference in gear requirements form FFb to FB/TTW is the hit requirement since you do not get Precision. To be raid hit capped (assuming heroic presence and a 3% hit buff) you have to hit 13% hit which is somewhere in the vicinity of 360 hit.
I see, so for me beeing horde, that hit cap would be somewhere close to 400 hit ?
And also, I remeber reading somewhere that spirit is an important factor, how much spirit should I have for fire/ttw to be superior to frostfire, asuming hit caping?
Don't worry too much about spirit. Spirit just allows for more crit % to be generated. Most Ulduar gear comes with an abundance of spirit on the gear. Just socket blue sockets with [Purified Twilight Opal] and use whatever cloth gear comes your way. The program RAWR is a good tool to help what gear you should use in order to go TtW/FB spec. Also 14% hit = 368 hit rating.
We did XT hard mode for the third time this week and yet again, my damage was terrible. I was getting beat by warlocks whom I would typically crush. As a matter fact, all 3 mages were low after getting into P2 (after heart was broken).
All ranged were on Life Spark duty and would swap between XT and the sparks. My question is, why are mages hurt by target switching (mainly targets that die quick) so much versus other classes? The only two reasons I could figure was, Ignite loss (due to mob dying before full duration) and short Molten Fury uptime. Anyone have any input?
The most likely explanation is probably Torment the Weak not being active on the sparks. Other factors could include a lack of Misery/Improved Faerie Fire, a lack of Ebon Plague/Earth and Moon/Curse of Elements, not to mention a potential lack of Improved Scorch (including the time to apply it) or Shadow Mastery.
Edit: I am assuming that you were in your Fireball spec. But, FFB could also be hampered by the other factors aside from a lack of Torment the Weak uptime.
Last edited by Nid : 07/01/09 at 7:27 PM.
Reason: Spec clarification
Because fb/ffb rely on high crit multiplier to function, which means it relies a lot on crit% debuffs. Ramp-up times will play into this (scorch/wc/isb), possibly a lack of TTW, travel times (meaning you can't fast anything towards the end of killing your target), and delayed damage through ignites.
As far as playstyle goes, I generally go for perma-LB on XT > keep scorch up on XT > (fb/ffb (maybe 2x) + scorch/fireblast on adds) > fb/ffb on XT
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
I realize that the mobs aren't fully debuffed, but I'm not the only caster for whom the mobs aren't debuffed. The warlocks are attacking the same non-debuffed mob and doing fine. Unless you are saying that FFB and Fire are drastically more dependent on buffs than a lock or ele sham. Also, we weren't buffing scorch on the mobs. perhaps a glyph of scorch would be better.
We did XT hard mode for the third time this week and yet again, my damage was terrible. I was getting beat by warlocks whom I would typically crush. As a matter fact, all 3 mages were low after getting into P2 (after heart was broken).
All ranged were on Life Spark duty and would swap between XT and the sparks. My question is, why are mages hurt by target switching (mainly targets that die quick) so much versus other classes? The only two reasons I could figure was, Ignite loss (due to mob dying before full duration) and short Molten Fury uptime. Anyone have any input?
This fight is one of the reasons that I have a focus living bomb macro along with a focus debuff tracker:
#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus,harm,exists,nodead] Living Bomb; Living Bomb
Is useful if you set XT as a focus after the heart phase.
How do you perform on XT? I use Scorchio so I always know when LB is up or down. I don't reapply it while killing the Spark though, as I feel thats the priority. This sometimes leave for a big downtime. Do you put LB up regardless of whether the Spark is spawned?
How do you perform on XT? I use Scorchio so I always know when LB is up or down. I don't reapply it while killing the Spark though, as I feel thats the priority. This sometimes leave for a big downtime. Do you put LB up regardless of whether the Spark is spawned?
Yes...
Just macro it or while casting a FB/FFB, target heart, LB, tab to/click spark, FB/FFB. I also make sure I keep scorch up on boss as no mage has scorch glyph.
Aye, I realize the importance of maintaining LB for dps, I just dont do it quite as well for this encounter since sparks seem to die a little slowly from other ranged not assisting quick enough (i try to pick up some of the slack). Next time I'll say screw it and make sure my dps is better overall.
Aye, I realize the importance of maintaining LB for dps, I just dont do it quite as well for this encounter since sparks seem to die a little slowly from other ranged not assisting quick enough (i try to pick up some of the slack). Next time I'll say screw it and make sure my dps is better overall.
hmm, I doubt this is a huge deal for your dps since you shouldn't have LB expire during every spark. Even when it does, they don't tend to live for too long unless your other ranged are completely ignoring it (in which case, you have an entirely different problem).
If it really does come down to killing a spark or making sure LB is down for a few seconds, I would recommend killing the spark. Personal DPS is great, but it doesn't mean jack if the raid wipes. In any case, this shouldn't make much of a difference to your dps anyways.
XT isn't a truly great mage fight, even if it's not terrible, but in any case, your rogues will probably be the ones raping the meter here anyways. As long as you're doing your part to burn cooldowns and kill the heart fast and take down adds quickly when they spawn, you're doing your job.
Remember, a damage meter is only a tool that reflects one aspect of people doing their job, but topping the meters doesn't always mean you're playing well.
1) On hodir HM, is 1% crit more dps than 3% haste? General question yes, but crit is just way over than usual right?
2) If we drop 2 and 4 pc t8, and gain 2 and 4 pc t9, how does the value of crit/spirit change? I'm thinking it devalues alot.
3) Is it more raid dps if the lowest dps mage gets scorches to x5 and maintains, and the higher mages never scorch, or is it better for all mages to help get to 5 and the lowest mage maintains? We have a trial mage who is scorch whore, I want to make sure my logic is correct.
4) Should I reapply living bomb, assuming the target will live for at least 12 more seconds, during heroism? What about hero + IV? Also throw in Scale of Fates clicky for the argument. Assuming regular haste like 500 from gear.
5) Under normal conditions, is it more dps to use a GCD and pop images instead of not? What about during heroism? Assume only 1 target to attack.
I believe the answer to the MI question is that you lose DPS now. The damage the images do it pretty trivial over their duration compared to what you can do with that global used on a nuke. Maybe if you can guarantee that none of the images will die and that every one of their spells will hit, but those are pretty big ifs.
When it was off the GCD it was "free" damage, now I believe the only reason to use it is for threat management.
Grammar and Spelling PSA:
Wiped- NOT Whipped - One of these is a failed attempt, the other involves something Indiana Jones would carry.
Rogue- NOT Rouge - One is a thief or trickster, the other is a type of cosmetics.
Please don't abuse ellipsis, you can safely use commas and semicolons to pause.
I believe the answer to the MI question is that you lose DPS now. The damage the images do it pretty trivial over their duration compared to what you can do with that global used on a nuke. Maybe if you can guarantee that none of the images will die and that every one of their spells will hit, but those are pretty big ifs.
When it was off the GCD it was "free" damage, now I believe the only reason to use it is for threat management.
Looking at my last log parse, my MI's were doing 360 damage per frostbolt average and 227 per fireblast. As they (combined) cast a total of 24 Frostbolts and 12 Fireblasts, that works out to 11364 damage, if they last the whole duration. Divide this by 1.5 (GCD) and you get 7576 DPCT for MI.
Ergo, if you are doing LESS than 7576 DPS, MI will be a DPS increase. Hodir is perhaps the only fight in which you can expect to be breaking 7.5k DPS with any regularity, so MI could be a DPS increase on any other fight.
The problem is that Images just don't last the full 30s. On what fights can you (reasonably) expect the images to last?
Razorscale, during burst phase.
Deconstructor, just after tantrum or on heart.
Mimiron P1 (if you don't get napalmed)
And that's pretty much it in Ulduar. (I haven't doing Vezax or Yogg yet, but I expect the images won't last long there, either.) 2.5k health really doesn't go a long way towards survivability when there's that much raid damage going on.
I believe the answer to the MI question is that you lose DPS now. The damage the images do it pretty trivial over their duration compared to what you can do with that global used on a nuke. Maybe if you can guarantee that none of the images will die and that every one of their spells will hit, but those are pretty big ifs.
When it was off the GCD it was "free" damage, now I believe the only reason to use it is for threat management.
Download a mod called Dr. Damage. At my current gear level it has a full MI at over 44k, and scales quite well if used during a SP spike. One thing I noticed as Arcane after blowing past my hit-cap, is that my MIs were consistently landing their spells (around 93% not counting hit debuff). We rely on 6% from talents (and maybe +1% from Heroic Pres) which they do not get. I suppose a fire mage would have them capped all the time. (and may have a higher damage than me due to that).
Looking at [Spell Power talent / Burnout] and [Arcane Instability / Playing with Fire] the crit multiplier and bonus damage should be equal. (~154% and +3% respectively).
Any way you slice it, you aren't going to get 45k+ from a global any other way. And there are times where my SP spikes over 4k and MI would get a huge benefit.
Last edited by Phatpharm : 07/03/09 at 4:25 AM.
Reason: grammer >.>
This fight is one of the reasons that I have a focus living bomb macro along with a focus debuff tracker:
#showtooltip
/cast [target=focus,harm,exists,nodead] Living Bomb; Living Bomb
Is useful if you set XT as a focus after the heart phase.
I like this, it's pretty clean. However, I don't think XT Hard is very tough, so this is what I do:
/targetexact life spark
/focus target
/cast fireball
/target xt-0
So that way I can watch the life spark's health in my focus frame while I never lose my target on XT. It's not pretty, in that I pyro the boss instead of the spark unless I click-target the spark, but I find that this works and I still hit like 17%-20% of my damage into the sparks. Just face yourself so that you can hit both XT and the life spark and you can just spam this macro around the time that life spark should be created without screwwing up your rotation on the boss. I generally put two in and then react based on how quickly the spark seems to be dropping.
I think your way is cleaner, but I think this works too. It's not perfect. The main thing in this fight seems to be just the nice stuff like iceblock when you're shadow bomb (out of the raid, to prevent damage), and not panicking and blinking out of range of your heals when you're the light bomb.
When in similar gear (Level that is), what differences can be listed when deciding to have a warlock go ISB for the debuff, or 1(2) mage(s) do scorch? From what I have seen, our warlock suffers around 1.5k DPS to keep the ISB up for the other casters. I am curious as to whether it is as significant a loss to the mages we have on our roster to either rotate keeping it applied, or designate a sole mage with the responsibility.
Download a mod called Dr. Damage. At my current gear level it has a full MI at over 44k, and scales quite well if used during a SP spike. One thing I noticed as Arcane after blowing past my hit-cap, is that my MIs were consistently landing their spells (around 93% not counting hit debuff). We rely on 6% from talents (and maybe +1% from Heroic Pres) which they do not get. I suppose a fire mage would have them capped all the time. (and may have a higher damage than me due to that).
Looking at [Spell Power talent / Burnout] and [Arcane Instability / Playing with Fire] the crit multiplier and bonus damage should be equal. (~154% and +3% respectively).
Any way you slice it, you aren't going to get 45k+ from a global any other way. And there are times where my SP spikes over 4k and MI would get a huge benefit.
Do you have an actual log showing that your one use of Mirror Image output 44k damage in 30 seconds? And not on a fight like Hodir/General Vezax. I have a hard time believing 44k damage came from Mirror Images. They simply do not scale like that. Their base damage is going to be around 10,000. If you pop them with procs flying and you're at ~3k SP, they may do upwards of 15k damage. In fact, from a post I made on May 31st:
I noticed even in your high parse from Hodir that MI missed 8.2% of the frost bolts, and none of the lower dps fireblasts. I only started viewing MI as a DPS spell once they stopped missing all the time (and having large SP spikes from trinkets / IA). The other factor is they won't be alive for 30 seconds on Hodir (and some other fights) with the constant AoE damage.
The 44k is a theoretical limit at peak usage and full 30sec uptime. I will try and get the coefficients the mod is using, it does seem high after combing more parses.
WWS seems to track MI in 30sec intervals, no way to know for certain the dps uptime. I will try and get some solid parses where I know they had 100% uptime. Some of the fights my hit% was great, others, like my high Hodir parse I misses 8.2% of the frost bolts :-(
45k (instead of 44k for rounding's sake) divided by 3 images is 15k per image over the 30 seconds that it's up. Looking at it as DPS: that's 500 DPS per image, or a total of 1500 DPS for the trio. In other words, your images would do more dps than some players I've run with.
Assuming the maximum critical strike of one of your (Phatpharm's) images' frostbolts/fireblasts (1400/950), and 24 Frostbolts/12 Fireblasts as a baseline, the images would then do 45k worth of damage, but only with massive buffs (like Hodir) and a 100% crit rate. Needless to say, this is extremely unlikely, and, to be honest, I would be astonished if Mirror images lasted the full duration on Hodir.
Looking at them as a DPS cooldown, divide the total damage done per activation by 1.5 seconds (one GCD) and that will give you your DPCT. Using Enthorn's numbers is a really good place to start. If this is greater than your average DPS, popping MI is a straight DPS increase.
On the flip side, though, using MI as an "ohshit" button to avoid getting stomped by the boss is also a DPS increase, as you're not face-down on the floor doing 0 DPS. It's all about how you use MI as a tool.
Mirror Images used to do 45-50k damage for their 30 second duration, but that was dramatically toned down. I used Mirror Image once on each fight for two fights tonight:
The question of their worth in DPS is relative to your other abilities. Do you have any attacks that do 14-16k damage in one GCD? Living Bomb doesn't pull that kind of DPS unless it's exploding on multiple targets. Hot Streak Pyroblast doesn't. They have the typical AoE damage reduction so they definitely survive more than they used to. Naturally, some fights they are better than others. On Auriaya they'll probably fall over dead just from the Feral Defender. Kologarn can one shot them. Some abilities, like Ignis's Flame Jets, are on cooldowns, and can easily be timed around.
06/29/09, 1:59 PM
Similar Threads
