If this is the case, that we DON'T want to clip AM casts, could we put a [nochanneling] in front of our AB's and safely be able to spam the crap put of it...or would the latency NOT allow us to even start until the client thinks the cast is over?
I don't believe anyone has done any recent testing on it, however, the generally accepted theory is that [nochanneling] waits until the client reports "nochanneling" as opposed to the cast actually having finished serverside. This means that latency would cause you to be forced to wait until the client registered the spell as finished, as opposed to when the spell was actually finished.
The whole point of using quartz is so you do not have to do this. If they have changed some basic functionality of macros, then a [nochannel] macro would work, but until then just press your next cast when the current channel is in the red. Its really not that hard once you practice it for a bit.
Quartz is best for use in conjunction with AM. If you start spamming AB again after the GCD completes for AM, you're going to clip part of your AM. With Quartz you can start spamming AB again as soon as your AM channel reaches the "red zone", thus causing the AB to be cast as soon following the AM as possible.
Just a tidbit, Pitbull4 also includes a latency zone in its unit-frame cast bar.
This is actually a problem for me. For some reason on channeled spells my latency, or "red zone", is much higher (500-700ms range). It feels like if I begin casting during these times that I'm clipping a few missiles off. Should I be holding off longer?
This is actually a problem for me. For some reason on channeled spells my latency, or "red zone", is much higher (500-700ms range). It feels like if I begin casting during these times that I'm clipping a few missiles off. Should I be holding off longer?
If you think quartz is feeding you incorrect information, then do a simple test. Go to the training dummy and use recount to test if queuing the next spell right as you enter the "red zone" causes you to clip a missile. I've never experienced a situation where Quartz was wrong.
Has anyone tested if the MS effect from Permafrost works on Anub? Is the MS effect tied to the slowing effect of frostbolt/FFB or is it independent and can stick on bosses? The wording on the talent isn't clear if it requires that the target be slowed for the MS to function.
We don't always have an MS class on our 10 man run, and I was thinking about trying out a modified FFB spec to bring 20% MS. We've had a number of 5-6% wipes that would have been kills if the 20% MS effect worked.
Please forgive me if this question has been answered properly, but the only snippets of answers I found seemed very contradictory, so I thought that asking for a summary might be beneficial.
The talent I want to ask about is "Incanter's Absorption". The basic idea - as far as I can understand it - is that you gain up to 15% of the damage you absorb as temporary spell damage buff, lasting for 10 seconds, up to a maximum cap of 5% of your health.
Now, my questions are:
1) What exactly does "absorb" mean? The amount of damage which was resisted by magic resistances? The amount of damage that is prevented by shields or wards?
2) Does the damage in itself have to be "qualified" in any way? For example, would you gain spell damage for stepping into a patch of lava under a fire ward? Or does the damage have to originate from a monster? What about Damage over Time effects?
3) In which cases does IA _not_ proc even though it is supposed to?
4) What is the best way to post-mortem view the combat logs to find out exactly what happened? (sorry, I'm a tool n00b)
For me, this talent remains very mysterious. I have created an experimental build maximizing magic protection and 3 points in IA, and was empirically able to register significant DPS increases in Onyxia encounters, for example. However, Twin Valkyres, which was once listed as an excellent IA encounter, only yielded a small benefit.
The talent I want to ask about is "Incanter's Absorption".
1. It means fully absorb or fully resist, so partially resisted damage does not count.
2. It's any damage. Popping fireward and standing in fire works. Spellstealing Runemaster's shield and standing in his death rune also works. Being immune to damage doesn't work.
3. I've not noticed any such situation.
4. You won't see the value of the procs from combat logs. You'll have to watch your spellpower in-game to see the strength of the buff.
5. Twin Valkyries should be the ultimate IA encounter since while using either essence you will be absorbing more damage per second than 5% of your health. If you aren't getting good results here, you'd have to post some logs as evidence rather than just saying "small benefit". For all we know, you might have spent the whole encounter wanding.
If this is the case, that we DON'T want to clip AM casts, could we put a [nochanneling] in front of our AB's and safely be able to spam the crap put of it...or would the latency NOT allow us to even start until the client thinks the cast is over?
Correct; using [nochanneling] will force you to wait until the client belives the channel is complete. Provided you aren't casting so early as to clip, this will be a DPS loss for any positive latency value.
Excellent questions, I have been wondering that myself. But, a little more concrete..
1. Is it good to get the Glyph of Fire Ward as minor since I use it so much due to IA? BUT will it affect Incanters Absorption in a bad way due to the spell reflect that it adds??
2. On twins - Since only light damage is "fire damage" and can be absorbed by Fire Ward, does that mean that it's better to be in the "Black" group that has black essence most of the time, since you then take damage from the white orbs (fire dmg). Because If you are on the white essence side you get damage from Black orbs and those are not fire damage? Or have I understood something wrong?
Originally Posted by Wizeowel
1. It means fully absorb or fully resist, so partially resisted damage does not count.
2. It's any damage. Popping fireward and standing in fire works. Spellstealing Runemaster's shield and standing in his death rune also works. Being immune to damage doesn't work.
3. I've not noticed any such situation.
4. You won't see the value of the procs from combat logs. You'll have to watch your spellpower in-game to see the strength of the buff.
5. Twin Valkyries should be the ultimate IA encounter since while using either essence you will be absorbing more damage per second than 5% of your health. If you aren't getting good results here, you'd have to post some logs as evidence rather than just saying "small benefit". For all we know, you might have spent the whole encounter wanding.
3) In which cases does IA _not_ proc even though it is supposed to?
Using fire ward on the first part of Heroic Beasts doesn't seem to trigger IA (I need to verify this in my combat log, but I never once saw the IA icon show up on my buff bar. Also, fire ward on the legion flame in Jaraxxus doesn't seem to trigger IA. Those are the only ones I've noticed.
Originally Posted by MentarOmega
For me, this talent remains very mysterious. I have created an experimental build maximizing magic protection and 3 points in IA, and was empirically able to register significant DPS increases in Onyxia encounters, for example. However, Twin Valkyres, which was once listed as an excellent IA encounter, only yielded a small benefit.
You are not going to notice much (if any) difference between 1/3 and 3/3 IA on Twins, due to the amount of dmg you are continually absorbing. It doesn't matter which of the twins you are on. You shouldn't be wasting a GCD on fire ward during this encounter, unless there is a serious healing problem. But you should CERTAINLY see a huge dps increase on twins as a result of IA. I generally average between 6-7k dps in ToC, but I do 10-11k dps on twins.
Excellent questions, I have been wondering that myself. But, a little more concrete..
1. Is it good to get the Glyph of Fire Ward as minor since I use it so much due to IA? BUT will it affect Incanters Absorption in a bad way due to the spell reflect that it adds??
2. On twins - Since only light damage is "fire damage" and can be absorbed by Fire Ward, does that mean that it's better to be in the "Black" group that has black essence most of the time, since you then take damage from the white orbs (fire dmg). Because If you are on the white essence side you get damage from Black orbs and those are not fire damage? Or have I understood something wrong?
Reflected damage is not absorbed, hence it will not proc IA. Negated damage (as per the Frost Warding talent) however does proc IA. Keep in mind though that generally only direct damage spells can be reflected through that glyph. The effect of that glyph is minimal, as most fire damage that you'll take will be AoE.
As for your second question - it's irrelevant which group you're in at Twins, at least for the purposes of IA. Both buffs (light or dark essence) will proc IA, for the same amount of +spelldamage. The only reason why you would want to be on the 'black' side, is that you can use Fire Ward to:
ramp up IA faster at the start of the fight;
absorb some white balls if you're having trouble avoiding them, which will help both your survivability and mana (if you have Frost Warding).
These reasons will not make or break the fight for you, but can be a small boost.
Using fire ward on the first part of Heroic Beasts doesn't seem to trigger IA (I need to verify this in my combat log, but I never once saw the IA icon show up on my buff bar. Also, fire ward on the legion flame in Jaraxxus doesn't seem to trigger IA. Those are the only ones I've noticed.
I can confirm that the fire from Gormok and Legion Flames from Jaraxxus DOES PROC IA. I found it best to actually pop Fire Ward and step into fire for a tick in both cases to proactively increase my spell power. Only do this is the fire is near you. the time spent running across the board to touch the fire will offset the spell power increase.
You can also do this with the locks hellfire on faction champs, and to a much lesser extent with the breath form Icehowl.
Excellent questions, I have been wondering that myself. But, a little more concrete..
1. Is it good to get the Glyph of Fire Ward as minor since I use it so much due to IA? BUT will it affect Incanters Absorption in a bad way due to the spell reflect that it adds??
2. On twins - Since only light damage is "fire damage" and can be absorbed by Fire Ward, does that mean that it's better to be in the "Black" group that has black essence most of the time, since you then take damage from the white orbs (fire dmg). Because If you are on the white essence side you get damage from Black orbs and those are not fire damage? Or have I understood something wrong?
1. Glyph of Fire Ward is generally accepted to be a good minor glyph to get since it is one of the few that actually has a chance to increase your dps. Personally I've never noticed my Glyph reflect anything, and I don't know whether or not it actually uses up Fire Ward when it reflects (aka you still technically 'absorb'.) This would need to be tested, but either way I don't think it's worth not getting Fire Ward because you're afraid it'll reflect instead of proc IA. EDIT: Beaten, apparently reflects don't proc absorb.
2. On twins, because there is so much damage being absorbed, you will hit the 5% HP cap pretty quickly. The only use for Fire Ward would be to mitigate some damage if you hit the wrong orbs (which you shouldn't be doing anyway), or there are some serious healing problems. IA will be up the whole fight anyway because the damage from the same essence as you (ie. the shadow dmg if you are Dark Essence) is counted as absorbed.
Generally, it is better anyway for mages to get Dark Essence, because they are usually the best DPS in this fight, and Empowered Darkness lasts 20 secs, whereas Empowered Light only lasts 15 (giving the better buff to the better DPS.)
Generally, it is better anyway for mages to get Dark Essence, because they are usually the best DPS in this fight, and Empowered Darkness lasts 20 secs, whereas Empowered Light only lasts 15 (giving the better buff to the better DPS.)
I presume that this statement could only be true if the other range DPS is on the same target as well because if mages are the only range on the dark side, I would assume that the lack of range debuffs (CoE from locks, misery from SPs, etc.) would negate the potential benefit you might see from absorbing white balls with fire ward/5 more seconds on empowered darkness.
Correct, you would want other casters on the same target to get all of the caster debuffs up. I guess your ability to do that could depend on what strat your guild is using. I didn't mean to imply that only the mages would be getting Dark Essence.
the questions regarding IA have prompted me to ask a question i've been curious about for a long time.
granted, i might be ignorant in my (lack of) understanding, but here goes:
which takes place first? the 'resist' or the 'absorb'?
in other words, do i hinder my probabilities of proc'ing IA by having high resists (including MA)? if i 'resist' something, do i lose the chance to 'absorb' it too? does one take place before the other? do they take place simultaneously? are they not related in this particular senario?
which takes place first? the 'resist' or the 'absorb'?
in other words, do i hinder my probabilities of proc'ing IA by having high resists (including MA)? if i 'resist' something, do i lose the chance to 'absorb' it too? does one take place before the other? do they take place simultaneously? are they not related in this particular senario?
As I understand it, absorbs are absorbing actual damage you would have taken. Resists represent damage that the game rolls on and decides you're not taking. The remaining unresisted damage is then absorbed by your pw:shield, ward, etc. In that sense MA is working against IA.
You are not going to notice much (if any) difference between 1/3 and 3/3 IA on Twins, due to the amount of dmg you are continually absorbing. It doesn't matter which of the twins you are on. You shouldn't be wasting a GCD on fire ward during this encounter, unless there is a serious healing problem.
One Fire Ward with Frost Warding spec'd provides ~75% of a mana gem charge during our H Twins encounter. I wouldn't go overboard and say that fire warding is useless for this fight. World of Logs - Strife of Jaedenar
One Fire Ward with Frost Warding spec'd provides ~75% of a mana gem charge during our H Twins encounter. I wouldn't go overboard and say that fire warding is useless for this fight. World of Logs - Strife of Jaedenar
Mana is never an issue on Twins. Every time you get the Empowered Buff you have a massive mana return anyway (I believe it is 20%). Fire Ward isn't useless per-se, however, its not something you should be blowing a GCD on every 30 seconds in the hopes of a 30% proc chance mana return on a fight where mana is hardly an issue.
the questions regarding IA have prompted me to ask a question i've been curious about for a long time.
granted, i might be ignorant in my (lack of) understanding, but here goes:
which takes place first? the 'resist' or the 'absorb'?
in other words, do i hinder my probabilities of proc'ing IA by having high resists (including MA)? if i 'resist' something, do i lose the chance to 'absorb' it too? does one take place before the other? do they take place simultaneously? are they not related in this particular senario?
Here is a fairly comprehensive analysis of resistance mechanics:
6. All damage reduction / amplification effects (Defensive stance, Power of Shadron) affect only the unresisted portion of damage. All effects are still multiplicative, this simply means that when reviewing logs, the resisted portion in parentheses will be a flat percent of the base damage of the spell, with no other modifications (the exception being the reduction of periodic damage from resilience - this effect is applied before the partial resist check).
It's not stated directly, but you can infer that any damage effects are calculated after the resistance is subtracted.
AoE on Anub HC 25 --- which styles do you use/recommend?
We are not far enough yet, that I could get an idea how it will turn out in the long run. Do you skill fire for lb, fire with blastwave/flamestrike combo, or stick to arcane?
AoE on Anub HC 25 --- which styles do you use/recommend?
We are not far enough yet, that I could get an idea how it will turn out in the long run. Do you skill fire for lb, fire with blastwave/flamestrike combo, or stick to arcane?
The most popular spec for Anub 25 HM is a Frostfire Bolt spec. You LB each of the adds once and then Blizzard. The adds should not live long enough for a second LB to explode on them.
Here's where I'm confused. I always believed that aoe priority went LB>FS (Rank 9)>FS (Rank 8)>Blizzard and I had managed to make the scoreboards on wowmeteronline.com using this strategy. Yet, I look at the top parses on the scoreboard on wowmeteronline.com and it seems like they only use LB+Blizz.
Now I know that some mages are forced to use only blizzard with a 2 tank strat, but still how is it getting top dps places on the scoreboards? I know RNG and gear play their part but.. is strictly using blizzard with FFB the same dps or better than using the rotation I described?
Thanks to anyone who can provide better insight on this (and perhaps back it up with numbers), maybe I've been wrong all this time.
Edit: I am of course referring specifically to Anub 25man Heroic encounter.
Here's where I'm confused. I always believed that aoe priority went LB>FS (Rank 9)>FS (Rank 8)>Blizzard and I had managed to make the scoreboards on wowmeteronline.com using this strategy. Yet, I look at the top parses on the scoreboard on wowmeteronline.com and it seems like they only use LB+Blizz.
Now I know that some mages are forced to use only blizzard with a 2 tank strat, but still how is it getting top dps places on the scoreboards? I know RNG and gear play their part but.. is strictly using blizzard with FFB the same dps or better than using the rotation I described?
Thanks to anyone who can provide better insight on this (and perhaps back it up with numbers), maybe I've been wrong all this time.
Edit: I am of course referring specifically to Anub 25man Heroic encounter.
This is because of the FFB spec. With 20/51/0 (fireball spec), the aoe rotation is the one you refered (LB>FS (Rank 9)>FS (Rank 8)>Blizzard) but for Anub a lot of mages go with the FFB spec which has the Ice Shards 3/3 and Piercing Ice 3/3 talents, making blizard the best aoe spell. So, the proper aoe rotation would be LB -> Blizard.
I presume that this statement could only be true if the other range DPS is on the same target as well because if mages are the only range on the dark side, I would assume that the lack of range debuffs (CoE from locks, misery from SPs, etc.) would negate the potential benefit you might see from absorbing white balls with fire ward/5 more seconds on empowered darkness.
It's easily solved by making sure you have a Boomkin with the mages.
11/04/09, 6:24 PM
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