Do most people in the community consider Rawr as a good, finite source? And does anyone use the optimizer? I plugged in a ton of things and tried out the optimizer, and its result was a score less than the one I had equipped, which doesn't sound optimized to me at all!
Also, it seems to like putting the same ring and trinkets into a slot when I optimize it... is there a way to avoid that? I actually just re-ran the optimizer, and it also put my hit at 11%. Shouldn't it be at 14%? I'm a BE FFB mage... and I unchecked all other raid buffs (no misery for instance). And does someone know how it utilizes T7 set bonus?
1. Yes, though nothing is finite or perfect.
2. You probably forgot to enable all the relevant gems/enchants/gear.
3. FFB is 'bugged' and gets a ghost hit of 6% from EP, which means 11% would make you hit capped for FFB, once FFB is capped hit looses a lot of value, you can see it in Item Budget in rawr.
To add another option for the leg slot: [Sorrowgrave's Breeches] drops from the first boss in heroic Utgarde Pinnacle, so it might be a bit easier to obtain than a drop from Loken. Slightly less powerfull, but we were lacking a second option for that slot here anyway.
Since [Meteorite Whetstone] is still on the list: has anyone actually tested this? The wording really does imply that it only procs from melee and ranged attacks, but I would love to be proven wrong.
Since [Meteorite Whetstone] is still on the list: has anyone actually tested this? The wording really does imply that it only procs from melee and ranged attacks, but I would love to be proven wrong.
I just tested it (tank accidently mislooted it to me the other day, haven't managed to get onto a GM to give to the proper player). Can confirm that this trinket does not proc from spells.
1) It is only as good as the data you put into it. Select no regen buffs, and you will find that it deems Intellect extremely valuable, for instance.
2) It can occasionally be quirky, yielding results that are accurate for a fight of the specific conditions listed, but far from accurate for a fight that is just slightly shorter or longer. For instance, specify a fight of exactly 8 minutes with a mana pool and regen of a specific level, and you may find that Intellect is highly valued due to it allowing you to replace a mana cooldown with a dps one. It sometimes helps to test any recommendations with a variety of fight lengths to see how robust the recommendations are. Pretty sure most of us would prefer gearing options that are widely applicable across fights from 3 to 10 minutes, rather than gear that is narrowly recommended for fights lasting 7.5 to 8 minutes.
3) I haven't found the optimizer super useful. I find rawr most helpful at identifying and quantifying options rather than dictating results. It is more useful to me to know that two different pants are roughly equal than it is to know that Pants A are 2 dps better than Pants B, even though Pants A requires 200 heroic badges and Pants B is a quest reward. DPS is only one factor. Until Rawr figures out a way to optimize based on grinding time, how long you are likely to be wearing a piece of gear, and whether scarce currency is better spent on other slots first, optimizing on dps alone doesn't help me much. Mileage may vary for others.
My recommendation is that when you get counterintuitive results, to check your buffs, try different fight lengths, look at the recommended spell rotation, etc. Sometimes Rawr will tell you something you didn't know about spell rotation options or gear. Sometimes it will just tell you that you forgot a buff or that the recommendations would be very different if the fight was 2 minutes shorter.
Do most people in the community consider Rawr as a good, finite source? And does anyone use the optimizer? I plugged in a ton of things and tried out the optimizer, and its result was a score less than the one I had equipped, which doesn't sound optimized to me at all!
Also, it seems to like putting the same ring and trinkets into a slot when I optimize it... is there a way to avoid that?
- Make sure you have checkmarks next to all of the items you wish the Optimizer to include in its optimization.
- Make sure you also have checkmarks on gems
- Make sure you have your talent tree set
- There are still several bugs in Rawr that have plagued it for quite some time. Notably, a lot of unique items do not have the unique flag on them at the moment. This is less of a bug, and more of Rawr not importing from Wowhead properly. For instance, Titanium Spellshock Ring, Northern Tears, and some trinkets, are not marked as unique, so the optimizer incorrectly uses them for both slots.
- Rawr also likes to put enchants on offhands (spell power enchants, etc.) and sometimes even puts scopes on wands.
- Pay attention to the "Meta Gem Requirements" option. If you have this selected, and you have a meta gem on your character, Rawr will put abnormally high value on items that fulfill the requirements. That is to say, items that would otherwise be worthless get "bumped up" to the top of the DPS charts because, maybe they have that last blue gem you need to activate the meta gem.
Rawr's database is also absurdly large, so editing the items (like flagging them unique) takes a while. I don't care about any non-mage items and I wish I could delete them from the database easily. Unfortunately, while there is a "delete duplicates" button, there isn't a "delete all duplicates" button. You still have to page through every item. I mean, I just don't need mail, plate, or leather items in the database, but I haven't found a way to filter these out.
I think a closely related topic to this that has some value is raid gear planning. You are starting raiding soon or are in early stages, and still have a lot of upgrades you can get from 5-man, the AH, craftables, and quests. You want to improve your gear without relying solely on raids, but...
1) You don't have an infinite amount of time or gold.
2) You don't want to blow 40 badges or 4k gold on an item that willl likely be upgraded in a week. You would instead prefer to spend currency on gear that is likely to last for a few months, or allow you to switch your DKP focus to items that are much better upgrades.
3) You realize it is a lot better to kill two birds with one stone. It is generally better to grind rep that nets you 100 dps in upgrades over three items, than it is to grind rep that nets you 40 dps in one.
I am pretty sure that we all think about constraints like this, and end up developing a loose "gear plan" that makes the most out of our time in the game. But I don't see the collective knowledge about such plans being shared anywhere.
For example, this is what I have learned so far:
A) The black duskweave bracers and robe have a nice set bonus, are cheap, and are probable upgrades to anyone not wearing T6. Easy cheap upgrades as placeholders while running five mans are nice.
B) the hat of wintry doom is a recipe commonly possessed by tailors. Totals mats ran around 700g. 90 frostweave, 12 illusion dust are needed for the tailor to make the imbued frostweave.
C) Saronite spellblade is a cheap one-hand AH upgrade available at level 77. Nice option while grinding last three levels and while grinding KT rep.
D) KT rep gets you a solid cloak, an excellent one-hand, and the head enchant. the last two at revered. It is therefore an excellent idea for all mages to prioritize grinding KT rep up to revered by wearing the tabard in 5-man runs, netting you three solid upgrades very quickly. This should be an early priority. Wyrmrest is probably next priority.
E) The heroics that seem to have the highest quantity of good mage lot are Violet Hold, Nexus, and UP.
F) The presence of many gem slots makes a few "old school" items pretty good, if you don't mind throwing three red gems into an item that will likely get replaced in a few days or a couple weeks. Spellstrike pants are competitive entry level slots with three rare red gems. 57 spell damage just from the gems.
G) Frostfire doesn't really pull away from frost until you start getting a decent number of raid buffs and you start getting some level 80 purple gear. Frost is therefore an excellent heroic spec and keeps up with frostfire better in 10-man raiding than it does in 25 man (although it drops behind in 10 mans as well pretty quick).
I am sure that others who have been at 80 for longer will have similar or better tips. One thing I haven't figured out yet is heroic badge loot prioritization. Not quite sure which items will hold up the longest into Naxx, and should therefore be my first picks.
Wow all, thanks for the replies to Rawr and such. I didn't realize a lot of stuff, and it definitely helps me understand the logic behind this tool. I wasn't ready to blindly accept its numbers without understanding a little more about it...
I actually just discovered myself (via the Rawr webpage) the ghost FFB hit. I wish there was a way to not take that into account though.. cause the FFB thread seems to suggest targeting a hit as if FFB was still on 3%, in part because of LB, Scorch, Pyroblast still getting only 3% from EP.
I also didn't know that about the 'enforce metagem requirement' -- definitely good to know. Fortunately, I never have it checked -- I seem to do well enough making my own decision as to how to fulfill those requirements. Although I guess I could try it both ways and see what results in a higher dps.
And I see now, I remembered to check all the gear and such, but I didn't check things like shoulder enchant. That probably is what's causing the difference.. so I'll be sure to try it w/ all that stuff selected now.
If I select 'unlimited mana', does the fight length make a difference anymore? I know it's purely theoretical, but I'm interested in seeing it...
I also didn't know that about the 'enforce metagem requirement' -- definitely good to know. Fortunately, I never have it checked -- I seem to do well enough making my own decision as to how to fulfill those requirements. Although I guess I could try it both ways and see what results in a higher dps.
Having it unchecked means that when you run optimizer, or when you sort items by DPS, it will ignore items that fulfill your metagem requirements. That is to say, if all of your gems are a mix of [Runed Scarlet Ruby] and [Veiled Monarch Topaz], and you have a metagem requiring two blue gems, then the optimizer is never going to accurately suggest the right balance of gems for you (because it takes into account things like socket bonuses, etc.) Naturally you could do this all in your head, but it can still throw the numbers off, and end up suggesting items that are lower DPS, but have a blue gem in them, over an item that is higher DPS, simply because you haven't made a version of that item with a blue gem.
Leaving it unchecked can be beneficial when you don't have a good sort of items socketed. However, it's probably best to check it when running the optimizer.
For the wand slot, there's a green wand that should beat all of them excepting San'lain from Dragonblight: [Wand of Blinding Light]. Good choice if you're looking for something similar to San'lain but haven't seen it drop yet.
I tripped and fell over [Leggings of Renewed Hope] this afternoon while I was tearing my hair out over getting rid of my damned [Wrynn's Leggings of Wisdom]. All the spell damage of a heroic reward with none of the stats, but the alternative was blowing a bunch of money on Duskweave that I'd probably replace by tonight. Part of a quest chain that you're going to do anyway, it's a decent stopgap.
Available at the Daerlan Jewlelry vendor for the low low price of 8500gp, and one of the best in class rings at the moment. A better investment than a Mammoth for most of us.
Total:
397 hit (Hit capped for 3% given [Elemental Precision] & just to be safe if there is no Shadow Priest or Totem, also for when they fix FFB.
0 gems - So you can gem for whatever you would like.
2 enchants - +20 hit (Enchant Gloves - Precision) +10 hit (Enchant Boots - Icewalker)
You could replace some of these enchants if you'd like, but you may lose hit cap.
You could also replace any of the +0 hit gear for other stuff of your choice (haste or crit or spell power).
To clarify, Icewalker gives 12 hit. You're thinking of surefooted which gives 10.
Excellent post though, I matched my "wish list" spreadsheet to yours and found my list almost 100% matched yours so I think we're on the right track.
Using Rawr and some wowhead, this is the set of gear I've built myself only allowing for things that can be achieved through an individual effort rather than something that would take a group and a little luck to do. It should be a really great starting-off point for people who want to get raiding.
Keep in mind however that you may encounter significant upgrades from this list from Heroics and even some Normal 5-mans; as I mentioned, this takes into account only things that can be achieved solo or with minimal help and a dose of unluckiness due to lack of good 5-man drops.
The [Mendicant's Charm] is actually a nifty item that's often overlooked since it comes from such a low level quest.
Despite the pains taken to post this however, Rawr can't be recommended highly enough; with some careful usage, it makes threads such as this one obsolete.
Last edited by clearsimpleplain : 12/06/08 at 2:48 AM.
Hey guys,
I know this thread is about the best "pre raiding gear", but was just curios as to what you guys think the best gear coming out of naxx would be? Becuase spell power has become both healing and caster gear just having trouble getting a definite list. Would aapreciate some help
I mage without a [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] is like a Mortal Strike warrior dual-wielding Daggers.
Just because it's purple doesn't mean that it's useful.
Here's what I put together pre-raid. A few pieces could be upgraded if you're willing to spend thousands of gold on crafting (namely weapon and a ring), but it didn't seem a worthwhile investment.
Head: Hat of Wintry Doom (Chaotic Skyflare, Veiled Monarch Topaz aka. orange SP/hit, Kirin Tor enchant)
Neck: Necklace of Taldaram
Shoulders: Dark Runic Mantle (Veiled Monarch Topaz, Sons of Hodir enchant when I get the rep)
Back: Deathchill Cloak (Haste enchant)
Chest: Frostfire Robe (+ all stats, 2x Veiled Monarch Topaz)
Wrist: Azure Cloth Bindings (+ spellpower)
Gloves: Frostfire Gloves (+ spellpower, Veiled Monarch Topaz)
Belt: Girdle of Bane (buckle, Glowing Twilight Opal aka. purple SP/Stam gem)
Legs: Woven Bracae Leggings (50SP/30stam enchant)
Boots: Sandals of Crimson Fury (Icewalker, Glowing Twilight Opal)
Ring1: Band of Guile (+19 SP, enchanter only)
Ring2: Ring of the Traitor King (+19 SP)
Trinket1: Sundiel of the Exiled
Trinket2: Mark of the War Prisoner
Mainhand: Flameheart Spell Scalpal (spellpower)
Offhand: Ward of the Violet Citadel
Wand: Rod of the Fallen Monarch
Very easy to put together, all of it available from heroics/faction except the shoulders (200 - 400g on the AH) and the Cloak (<500g in mats, Sirens Tear is easily farmeable at the Gorlocs in Sholazar). Took me under a week to throw it all together.
All up it gives 371 Hit, which will cap you even assuming no draenei/SP/moonkin. If you do have these buffs available you can either swap out a few pieces (if it's inconsistant) or regem for more spellpower (if it's consistant). As well as a respectable 1524SP, 27% crit chance, 219 haste rating unbuffed, the Sundial proc and a 346SP for 20 seconds clicky.
Sorry I haven't worked in links and so forth, but I'm sure you all know which item is which by now.
Available at the Daerlan Jewlelry vendor for the low low price of 8500gp, and one of the best in class rings at the moment. A better investment than a Mammoth for most of us.
The price drops to 6800gp at exalted, so it might be worth it to grind the rep first for the ring. If you're concerned about the gold that is.
Hey guys,
I know this thread is about the best "pre raiding gear", but was just curios as to what you guys think the best gear coming out of naxx would be? Becuase spell power has become both healing and caster gear just having trouble getting a definite list. Would aapreciate some help
12/01/08, 8:55 AM
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