This would imply that your Mana Gem is off its cooldown, but there is no reason to use Evocation if your Mana Gem is available. A Mana Gem with 2 piece T7 is restoring 4662 - 4900 mana. If you start with a mana pool of 17,000, the earliest you should use your mana gem is 12,100, whereas the earliest I would use evocation is when I've reached zero mana.
There have been instances where I've needed to use Evocation for snap mana. I recently replaced the evocation glyph though (because I was an idiot and didnt have the molten armor one), and that glyph kept me alive on Mother Shahraz with no shadow resist gear, haha. I also dont have two pieces of T7 yet, so I dont get the best bonus. Along with that, I make sure I have all 3 mana gems going into a boss fight and worst case is I use a mana pot if I'm scrapping for mana if cooldowns are active.
This would imply that your Mana Gem is off its cooldown, but there is no reason to use Evocation if your Mana Gem is available. A Mana Gem with 2 piece T7 is restoring 4662 - 4900 mana. If you start with a mana pool of 17,000, the earliest you should use your mana gem is 12,100, whereas the earliest I would use evocation is when I've reached zero mana.
The only exception to that I have run across is Kel. Get mana bombed a few times, and lose a few people early on, and its perfectly possible to need and use three gems, a mana pot, and two evocs. Given that, I have taken to evocating early if I get an early mana bomb, allowing for the cooldown to come back up if the fight gets protracted. Have run OOM too many times on this fight...
The question I'd ask in regards to using mana gems is this: the vast majority of current fights are short enough that mana is a non-factor, so why are you using mana gems reactively? I've got mine macro'ed with my other trinkets and (assuming the fight is even 2min+), I pop my first one around 5s into the fight. Except for really crappy luck with Mana Bombs on K'T, the only fight long enough to really push us for mana right now is Sarth+3, which is also the only fight I ever reliably use Evo on. Beyond that I use my gems purely as offensive cooldown.
4900ish here so it is doable with a synergistic raid comp.
On a fight like Patchwerk, where every dps member can concentrate 100% on their rotations without moving, running out of fires, random AoE, etc. etc., people who ask why their dps is too low should look at these 4 factors: Gear, raid setup, fight duration (thus the dps output of your other raid members) and most undeniably, luck.
I was able to put out 5,554 DPS this week, here is the WWS link - Wow Web Stats
I believe that I could have upped my DPS by using Combustion in the sub 35% range, I used it at the start as opposed to stacking the cooldowns for the sub 35%. I also had a Hot Streak proc right as Patchwerk died, thus missing the opportunity to use all 15 of the procs.
After the raid I made a Titanium Spellshock Ring, as well as turned in the T7.5 helm token. I believe that I was at ~2300 spellpower fully buffed.
Sounds like far too much work to me. We just alternate raid nights on who does scorch.
Our approach is that whomever twitches first applies the scorch. I don't know if the other mages are using addons or just watching the debuff but we let it tick down pretty far before someone restores it.
I can usually tell if the other mage is dead just by the fact that I'm always hitting my discomfort zone first and having to reapply scorch. Usually it's about half and half who actually does it which means our zones are similar and it's a matter of who is in the middle of casting or not when it winds down too low.
One thing I look at in the WWS stats is who is scorching and how often. If one person is doing it all in a given fight, they're usually scorching too soon or have chosen a different rotation (a 1.5s or instant rotation) due to fight dynamics (trying to avoid interrupts, be more mobile etc) while the other has stuck with a standard frostfire rotation.
If there is a frost mage in the raid I don't bother scorching unless I'm pretty sure he's dead or is focusing on another target.
That's also quite a good example of the volatility of the spec - 67% crit rate on FFB for that Patch parse, compared to 33% on Grand Widow.
Thats exactly what right now makes me question a lot of stuff... i mean one week i can do 6k dps on patchwerk and 2 days after that with same gear and same raid buffs/debuffs i barely got to 5k
I know that RNG factor is part of being a mage and especially this kind of specs but a difference of 1k dps seems a little too much.
Thats exactly what right now makes me question a lot of stuff... i mean one week i can do 6k dps on patchwerk and 2 days after that with same gear and same raid buffs/debuffs i barely got to 5k
I know that RNG factor is part of being a mage and especially this kind of specs but a difference of 1k dps seems a little too much.
You are failing to blow your cooldowns twice on this fight which should be happening. Once at the beginning and a second time synced with Bloodlust. You'll experience much better numbers this way.
That is true, thanks. Regardless, i failed on both and got 1k dps difference, thats what bothers me i guess is just luck. Seems like theres no way to reduce the margin.
You are failing to blow your cooldowns twice on this fight which should be happening. Once at the beginning and a second time synced with Bloodlust. You'll experience much better numbers this way.
He is correct, but readers should take heed that some guilds' RDPS is higher and therefore does not allow for a 2nd set:
with regards to blowing the cd's both the above fights were around the 3 minute mark, and with combustion at 3 minutes and IV at 2.4 minute cooldowns, would it not be better to save them both for ~35% if not only for MoltenFury but the general raid rule as thats when heroism/bloodlust pops up?
how do you decide which way to go with it? popping all your cd's at the verystart then not getting them till way past the MF threshhold would see a big drop in overall dps?
how do people approach each fight? if your raiding with the same selection of people i suppose u get to grips with the fight length, but our guild is larger and raid dps can fluctuate up or down. i suppose the rule of thumb would be ifin doubt save combustion for the "execute" (and "use" trinket/mana gem combo) and maybe try to squeeze in 2 IV?
anyway im asking (and re-repeating) all these questions as ive only just solved a l2p issue of my own :P a mage of similar stats always has an edge over single target dps in naxx, and paying attention to the meters i start off on top but he sneaks it back at the end and im putting that down to proper use of MF phase. (i know i know, basic talent, but been playing a mage for 3 or so years now and always had that talent so totally forgot about it) so now just hunting for clarification of basic practice, as id usually burn all my cd's at the start giving me a headstart but either not popping them again at the end or forgetting about them :s
It's tough to guess on the first fight of the night with some unknowns in the group, but generally, yes, if the fight is <3 minutes, you will want to save your combustion and icy veins cooldowns for the bloodlust. You can usually swing using a mana gem at the beginning, though.
Looking at the WWS, the things that stand out to me are that on a 3'16" fight, he got in 10 more FFBs and 2 more Pyros than you. This is likely due to him having about 5% more haste than you. However, make sure you aren't waiting at the end of a cast and are chain-casting constantly on a fight like this.
Additionally, he has an active trinket while you do not. This allows him to more effectively stack cooldowns inside of Molten Fury range.
thanks for the reply and yes i noticed that to, my "presence" always seems to be lower than everyone else too, but id say im pretty quick off the mark at the beginning of boss fights and move a minimal amount as possible, i do feel i am constantly chain casting, but fps and ms isnt the best in the world so if anyone uses a add-on that helps id gladly check it out
ive since upgraded my darkmoon card: crusade (which i was using on that wws) with the forge ember which i think was significantly hindering my dps as now when playing i feel that im very rarely without one of the 2 buffs (from sundial or ember), and quite occasional carrying them both
what "method" do people use to decide their cd route pre-fight? do people have a list of average fight times for their raid group for every boss? or people generally just get to learn the general length of fights? i mean i have agood enough memory to remember every tactic and identify when an over average amount of movement is required or when i getto just stand a nuke, and special events during a fight that may decide where i use my cd's but i dont think i can ever remember the average length of every fight
I generally have an idea how a fight is going to go before we start (at least for everything in Naxx) and I adjust on the fly if it goes bad.
Patchwerk: If your guild is taking more than 2:40 to kill him, do a full cooldown burn at the start complete with MIs (the hateful mechanic should be enough to keep the tanks above you by the time the MI fades). Another at Bloodlust (30% or so). If your guild is faster, skip the first one.
Grobbulus, Gluth, Razuvious, Anu'Rekhan, Grand Widow: Same as patches but you may need a tick or two of invis coming off the first MI.
Loatheb: I burn 1 after the 1st spore and another at BL.
Thaddius: Usually, I can get one in on the first shift, one in during the bloodlust, and a mana gem/active trinket in the middle. If your guild is fast enough, you'd probably only get the first and last.
4 Horsemen: Usually 1 at the start and 1 when we get the Thane back but this encounter varies greatly by guild.
Noth: I try to time them to go after a curse but with enough time before a teleport because I'm usually on decursing duty.
Gothik: I just burn one as soon as he comes down as the encounter is on ez-mode at that point.
Maexxna: Invis can get squirrley on this fight so I generally let the tank build some threat before I drop the 1st one. 2nd for BL/Enrage, obviously.
Heigan: Don't even ask me. My guild still insists on tanking him on the platform and having the casters/healers do the dance the whole fight.
I'll try and be clear here. The purpose of these forums is not to QQ about stuff. Maybe if the whine is legitimate I might understand, but this is definitely not the case. If you want to whine/QQ, do it on wow forums. What matters in the end is: is your dps competitive? And you know what, at both 5k and 6k it is. And not to mention, if you had had 5k dps on that 6k parse, you would still have had the first spot. So you better not QQ because it does pisses me off a lot more than you might realize.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
Can we qq about ffb specs going extinct? if those numbers are correct, fireball is back. I like the dps increase and the slightly more consistent damage, but it seems inconvient to need to rely on another debuff for a huge chunk of our output. But at the end of the day, the numbers always win.
FFB is not going extinct. Remember that FFB was originally conceived to work around the problem of frost/fire immune bosses. Even if FB is back in force, which personally I'd prefer, FFB will maintain it's status as an alternative and a work-around to the rather ungainly 100g respec per weird boss.
Besides, even if in a Raid they're a few percent different, FFB will maintain good value for low-gear mages who could benefit from Elemental Precision until their gear stops suffering from lacking hit, and also has a good chance it'll replace FB in Brain Freeze.
What makes ffb so awesome isn't really the ffb dps itself. If you look at the numbers, even though it does have a really high crit multiplier, and even though most people will awe at the crits you do get from it, the real dps comes from hot streak and living bomb. Now what is truly awesome about ffb is the mana cost. Also, as a side effect, the spec flexibility is certainly very much welcome.
In the end, I think it would be far more proper to consider only one true spec and everything else being merely variations of the base build. As odd as it might sound, in reality the real build is living bomb/hot streak. What you get outside of that is just a filler and utility talents. The dps difference between the 18/53/0 and the 0/53/18 variants is small and mostly situational -- one excels at burst (iv), dpm and aoe whereas the other one excels at sustained dps, but at the cost of poorer dpm.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
Don't be surprised if Blizzard purposely buff Frostfire specs if they became too low, because everyone simply has to be arcane/fire if they want serious dps. No we aren't at that stage yet, even after the patch. Quite simply, FFB is just a lot of fun and quite fresh, coupled with HS. All the mages I know just love the spell and the spec. It's one of the new babies for mages this expansion and I wouldn't expect it'll be left on the wayside and relegated to a 'nobody ever uses that new spell Blizzard made, huh?' scenario. It's in their interests to make the spell/spec viable, because so many people simply find it fun and fresh.
This doesn't necessarily mean that if FFB is not the top spec it'll get buffed, however.
Personally i'm sick of seeing the old fireball/frostbolt animations. Seen them for years. I would be more partial to a fire/frost spec, at least psychologically, if Blizzard put a minor glyph out that let us alter the animations to something more exciting. (Lava burst does look really sweet.....)
Scorchio should ALWAYS be picking up any instance of Scorch and Winter's Chill. Only 1 mage needs to be keeping one of those two up. Also, there can only be 1 scorch debuff on any one mob at a time. So you can't have _your_ scorch while another mage has _their_ scorch. Scorch benefits every caster in the raid, not just the person casting it.
This is absolutely correct, and the (original) reason I wrote Scorchio! Scorchio! 2 should now pick up the Scorch and/or Winter's Chill debuff on the mob when it's cast by any mage - they don't even need to be in your party/raid - every time. The only time it may miss the very first scorch is if you're out-of-combat when it lands and your latency brings the start of combat in after that first AURA_APPLIED event is received. Subsequent scorches will be picked up though, and Scorchio! 2 will inform you of the correct stack size at that point.
<Eej> YOU"RE GONNA PULL
<Eej> IF YOU SQUEEZE OFF ANOTHER ARCANE BLAST
<Spectear> You've obviously never played with Manly.
<Spectear> That's hardly a reason to stop DPS. Very Manly Staff
When I tested a week or so back there was a new pyroblast animation as well. They are a lot more similar then they are currently. I can't imagine the reason for this, though it will be at least marginally better in pvp. Has anyone looked at FFB bolt on the PTR lately? Has it been updated?
Can we qq about ffb specs going extinct? if those numbers are correct, fireball is back. I like the dps increase and the slightly more consistent damage, but it seems inconvient to need to rely on another debuff for a huge chunk of our output. But at the end of the day, the numbers always win.
Hey guys, I am just starting to get serious about raiding and my DPS, and these forums are a great place to learn. Excuse me if I come off as somewhat newb, I am trying to de-newb myself.
Is Fireball really coming back? I have been reading around, but unable to find anything to support this.
I had a question about gear. My current armory shows my PVP gear, so here's my PvE stats:
1750 SP
290 Hit
390 Haste
Crit Forgot the rating, but about 34% with AI and Molten Armor (glyphed)
Also have 4 PC T7/7.5 and Meta Crit gem
I feel like my DPS is very low for my gear, and even compared to a mage that has a about 1.5% more crit than me, and less spell power, he is consistently out DPSing me.
My raids are horrible for casters, we always bring 4 rogues and 1 enhance shammy. Boomkin is only there about 40% of raids, and elemental shamans and shadow priests are nonexistent in my guild. I have been trying forever to recruit these classes, but with no luck.
It seems that haste is much more beneficial with the 8% extra crit from ele shaman and boomkin, but without it, crit may be better? It seems very often that we raid without ele shaman, boomkin, or SP.
Also I am trying to understand ignite munching. I currently spam FFB, queue Pyros after FFB casts when HS is up. I have been lazy with keeping up LB, but I just installed scorchio and I am getting alot better. Specifically, last night in 25 man Malygos, the other mage was outDPSing me by alot. Any tips? Thanks guys!
01/09/09, 6:02 PM
i guess is just luck. Seems like theres no way to reduce the margin.
