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Old 02/10/09, 5:18 PM   #826
Lons
Banned
 
Human Mage
 
Draenor
I use Scorchio for my Scorch and Living bomb timers and power auras for my Hot Streak procs and when I spec arcane my Missile Barrage Procs. I set up my power auras to put a huge red pulsing center thing on my character with a timer and my Missile Barrage is just a blue version of the same for when I respec.

Scorchio has both a visual bar and timer that shows stacks of scorch and living bomb timer. Although Xperl shows my debuffs are big buffs which helps a lot as well. Just a lot to keep up with for sure.

Does Burnout do that? If so that would be nice to do it all in one mod.

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Old 02/10/09, 5:25 PM   #827
belalrone
Banned
 
Gnome Mage
 
Stormrage
eventalert works awesome for procs for different builds/classes. Its at curse.

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Old 02/10/09, 5:37 PM   #828
baldween
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Fenris
If only burnout tracked polymorph...

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Old 02/10/09, 6:32 PM   #829
Meadrea
Glass Joe
 
Meadrea's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Ravencrest
I'm pretty new to the site as far as posting, but I've been playing WoW for about two years and used to consider myself a pretty decent mage in TBC... so /wave @ fellow mages.

I'm pretty cookie cutter atm, 0/53/18, and I love the Fire FFB spec, I just don't think I'm doing the damage I should be. If you armory Meadrea (the only one there) you can see my spec and gear. I have the Molten Armor, FFB, and Imp Scorch glyphs. I use the Scorch > LB > FFB > Hot Streak rotation, and talking with my mage friend I'm not sure what I could do differently to compete, but I am constantly being out-dps'd by most of my raid. I do ~3250 on Patchwerk with full raid buffs.

I'm just wondering what I might be doing differently or if this is sufficient for where I am gearwise. Any input or questions are welcome... and my apologies if this is in the wrong place.

Last edited by Meadrea : 02/11/09 at 10:28 AM.

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Old 02/10/09, 6:41 PM   #830
 nathanbp
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Mage
 
Aegwynn
Originally Posted by Meadrea View Post
I'm pretty new to the site as far as posting, but I've been playing WoW for about two years and used to consider myself a pretty decent mage in TBC... so /wave @ fellow mages.

I'm pretty cookie cutter atm, 0/53/18, and I love the Fire FFB spec, I just don't think I'm doing the damage I should be. If you armory Meadrea (the only one there) you can see my spec and gear. I have the Molten Armor, FFB, and Imp Scorch glyphs. I use the Scorch > LB > FFB > Hot Streak rotation, and talking with my mage friend I'm not sure what I could do differently to compete, but I am constantly being out-dps'd by most of my raid. I do ~3250 on Patchwerk with full raid buffs.

I'm just wondering what I might be doing differently or if this is sufficient for where I am gearwise. Any input or questions are welcome... and my apologies if this is in the wrong place.

~ Mea
You are waaaaay over the hit cap. You should gear for 10% assuming there's a Shadow Priest (Misery) or Moonkin (IFF) in the raid and that you're a group with a Dreanai for another 1%. Much beyond that is hard to say without a WoW Web Stats or similar parse.

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Old 02/10/09, 6:54 PM   #831
Smizzle
Glass Joe
 
Murloc Mage
 
Elune
Originally Posted by Lons View Post
I use Scorchio for my Scorch and Living bomb timers and power auras for my Hot Streak procs and when I spec arcane my Missile Barrage Procs. I set up my power auras to put a huge red pulsing center thing on my character with a timer and my Missile Barrage is just a blue version of the same for when I respec.

Scorchio has both a visual bar and timer that shows stacks of scorch and living bomb timer. Although Xperl shows my debuffs are big buffs which helps a lot as well. Just a lot to keep up with for sure.

Does Burnout do that? If so that would be nice to do it all in one mod.
Burnout has timers for Scorch on your current target, Living Bomb and Hotstreak. When you switch targets it will automatically show the Scorch debuff timer for your new target, regardless of who applied it. If you are Fireball/FFB spec, you can replace both Scorchio and Power Auras with Burnout.

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Old 02/10/09, 7:06 PM   #832
Kaymar
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Meadrea View Post
I'm pretty new to the site as far as posting, but I've been playing WoW for about two years and used to consider myself a pretty decent mage in TBC... so /wave @ fellow mages.

I'm pretty cookie cutter atm, 0/53/18, and I love the Fire FFB spec, I just don't think I'm doing the damage I should be. If you armory Meadrea (the only one there) you can see my spec and gear. I have the Molten Armor, FFB, and Imp Scorch glyphs. I use the Scorch > LB > FFB > Hot Streak rotation, and talking with my mage friend I'm not sure what I could do differently to compete, but I am constantly being out-dps'd by most of my raid. I do ~3250 on Patchwerk with full raid buffs.

I'm just wondering what I might be doing differently or if this is sufficient for where I am gearwise. Any input or questions are welcome... and my apologies if this is in the wrong place.

~ Mea
Swap out all your SP/Hit gems for SP/Crit. Swap the SP/Stam gem on your belt for pure SP -- you can afford to lose the socket bonus. Replace the Hit gem on the belt with SP/Crit. That will give you an immediate boost.

Beyond that, it's really just a matter of gear upgrades. Check the first post of the Optimal Gear Sets thread to see the best-in-slot set for FFB mages. I'd concentrate on upgrading your wand first; there are several in Naxx 25 that will help you out. I'll also recommend starting the long gold farm for the Signet of the Kirin Tor. The 6800 gold is worth the effort.

Good luck!

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Old 02/10/09, 9:22 PM   #833
Volarun
Glass Joe
 
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Blood Elf Mage
 
Deathwing
Originally Posted by Kaymar View Post
Swap out all your SP/Hit gems for SP/Crit. Swap the SP/Stam gem on your belt for pure SP -- you can afford to lose the socket bonus. Replace the Hit gem on the belt with SP/Crit. That will give you an immediate boost.

Beyond that, it's really just a matter of gear upgrades. Check the first post of the Optimal Gear Sets thread to see the best-in-slot set for FFB mages. I'd concentrate on upgrading your wand first; there are several in Naxx 25 that will help you out. I'll also recommend starting the long gold farm for the Signet of the Kirin Tor. The 6800 gold is worth the effort.

Good luck!
He needs that second Blue gem for his meta, but otherwise he can afford to lose a lot of hit unless he doesn't have a hit buff in his raid all the time.

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Old 02/10/09, 9:39 PM   #834
Salus
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Hyjal
Or switch to fireball instead of FfB, should be a definite DPS gain unless there is a DK running razorice (in which case it's a little more nebulous).

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Old 02/11/09, 1:14 AM   #835
 ash2ash
Operation Asian
 
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Undead Mage
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by Meadrea View Post
I'm pretty new to the site as far as posting, but I've been playing WoW for about two years and used to consider myself a pretty decent mage in TBC... so /wave @ fellow mages.

I'm pretty cookie cutter atm, 0/53/18, and I love the Fire FFB spec, I just don't think I'm doing the damage I should be. If you armory Meadrea (the only one there) you can see my spec and gear. I have the Molten Armor, FFB, and Imp Scorch glyphs. I use the Scorch > LB > FFB > Hot Streak rotation, and talking with my mage friend I'm not sure what I could do differently to compete, but I am constantly being out-dps'd by most of my raid. I do ~3250 on Patchwerk with full raid buffs.

I'm just wondering what I might be doing differently or if this is sufficient for where I am gearwise. Any input or questions are welcome... and my apologies if this is in the wrong place.

~ Mea
I think your gear is not holding you back since you seem pretty decked out. Your hit is too high, but I'm guessing based on your dps that rotation is your issue. Keep in mind with FFB it's not a rotation per se but a priority queue. Scorch > LB > Hot Streak > FFB. But that doesn't mean you should stop casting a spell in order to meet your priorities (except possibly scorch - sacrificing personal dps for raid dps) If you miss a hot streak proc and start casting FFB, wait until the FFB cast is done to cast the hotstreak pyro.

Also, if you are doing something like casting scorches to avoid ignite munching, you're probably losing dps. The only time I actively worry about ignite munching is when I have < 1 sec on living bomb or scorch and I have a hotstreak pyro, I will save the pyro until after I cast the living bomb/scorch, otherwise, I'll cast it at the tail end of a FFB and risk losing an ignite.

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Old 02/11/09, 2:30 AM   #836
Meadrea
Glass Joe
 
Meadrea's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Ravencrest
Thanks for the feedback all. After double checking my raid roster I regemmed for crit tonight, saw an improvement on the target dummy (2800 self buffed only), but I'll know more after tomorrow night's raid. I don't worry about ignite munching, I was missing hot streaks but I picked up Scorchio 2. I agree with you, Lapsed, about the priority of an FFB rotation, and I do keep to it. I rarely stop casts to pick up a proc, and generally I don't forget to scorch. I do have a problem with overcompensating and using scorch too often, which I know is likely to lower my dps, which is also part of the reason for picking up scorchio.

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Old 02/11/09, 2:53 AM   #837
Arantes
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Meadrea View Post
Thanks for the feedback all. After double checking my raid roster I regemmed for crit tonight, saw an improvement on the target dummy (2800 self buffed only), but I'll know more after tomorrow night's raid. I don't worry about ignite munching, I was missing hot streaks but I picked up Scorchio 2. I agree with you, Lapsed, about the priority of an FFB rotation, and I do keep to it. I rarely stop casts to pick up a proc, and generally I don't forget to scorch. I do have a problem with overcompensating and using scorch too often, which I know is likely to lower my dps, which is also part of the reason for picking up scorchio.
You'll see an even greater improvement gemming for spellpower, you should not gem for crit at all.

Instant Pyros are, I believe, the highest DPS item in an FFB rotation, so it's definitely important not to miss them, however damage-wise they only account for up to 15% of my damage on a straight DPS fight (when I'm specced FFB).

Really the biggest thing you can do is regem to get down to the hit you need - as you have done, but increase your SP in doing so. No matter the spec, SP will return more than crit in your gemming.

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Old 02/11/09, 8:48 AM   #838
Gediablo
Piston Honda
 
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Human Mage
 
Ravencrest (EU)
Originally Posted by Lons View Post
I use Scorchio for my Scorch and Living bomb timers and power auras for my Hot Streak procs and when I spec arcane my Missile Barrage Procs. I set up my power auras to put a huge red pulsing center thing on my character with a timer and my Missile Barrage is just a blue version of the same for when I respec.

Scorchio has both a visual bar and timer that shows stacks of scorch and living bomb timer. Although Xperl shows my debuffs are big buffs which helps a lot as well. Just a lot to keep up with for sure.

Does Burnout do that? If so that would be nice to do it all in one mod.
You can do all that in one simple mod called TellMeWhen. Track scorch debuff (with refresh updates across mages that doesn't even have the addon), track other debuffs on your target like Living Bomb, and track when you get some buff (like Missile Barrage or HotStreak). The way TellMeWhen announces it is by showing an icon on your screen (with a timer on if you want that too). What addon is best for tracking buffs and debuffs is a matter of taste.

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Old 02/11/09, 10:25 AM   #839
Enthorn
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Mage
 
Dunemaul
Originally Posted by Arantes View Post
You'll see an even greater improvement gemming for spellpower, you should not gem for crit at all.
I understand what you're saying, in that nearly all of Meadra's gems are [Potent Monarch Topaz], and a few of them should be [Runed Scarlet Ruby], but this has nothing to do with never gemming for crit, which is just blatantly false. Even in your own gear you have one [Potent Monarch Topaz] (and two cases where, for whatever reason, you've passed up a great socket bonus due to solely gemming with [Runed Scarlet Ruby]).

11.7 Spell Power: 18.22 DPS / 10 Crit Rating: 14.27 DPS / 10 Haste Rating: 12.99 DPS

Naturally, those numbers are going to vary between each character based on a wide array of buffs, gear, and levels of each. But it's no secret to anyone who has used Rawr that Frostfire favors [Potent Monarch Topaz], Fireball favors [Reckless Monarch Topaz], and neither favors [Runed Scarlet Ruby] exclusively. Nonetheless, those numbers tell us that...

One [Runed Scarlet Ruby] will give you 29.58 DPS.
One [Potent Monarch Topaz] + 4 haste will give you 30.627 DPS (14.015 + 11.416 + 5.196 DPS).

This difference, of course, gets higher as the socket bonus increases. The socket bonus of [Valorous Frostfire Shoulderpads] isn't nearly as beneficial as the socket bonuses of [Gothik's Cowl] or [Valorous Frostfire Robe].

In any event, running Rawr will show you a complete breakdown of spell power vs crit vs haste and whether it's better to ignore a socket bonus (and in most every case it isn't).

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Old 02/11/09, 3:33 PM   #840
solbergb
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Meadrea View Post
. I rarely stop casts to pick up a proc, and generally I don't forget to scorch. I do have a problem with overcompensating and using scorch too often, which I know is likely to lower my dps, which is also part of the reason for picking up scorchio.
I got smacked down here for scorching too often back when I started, and when I ran the math I saw why..and it gets worse as your gear gets better.

Scorchio will help with that. Also with the glyph, the consequences of a scorch dropping is not nearly as severe as it was in BC...there will be 2-4 seconds where the raid loses 4%-10% crit, so if you do drop it by cutting it too fine, you can recover pretty quick. If you scorch too early you guaranteed lose dps. If you risk your comfort zone scorching later, you'll usually get it right and every time you DO get it right, you guaranteed gain dps.

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Old 02/11/09, 7:01 PM   #841
Arantes
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Cenarion Circle
Originally Posted by Enthorn View Post
I understand what you're saying, in that nearly all of Meadra's gems are [Potent Monarch Topaz], and a few of them should be [Runed Scarlet Ruby], but this has nothing to do with never gemming for crit, which is just blatantly false. Even in your own gear you have one [Potent Monarch Topaz] (and two cases where, for whatever reason, you've passed up a great socket bonus due to solely gemming with [Runed Scarlet Ruby]).
You're right, I over-generalized and misspoke.

All the Scarlet Rubies I currently have that don't match the socket color are there because of Rawr, although I have stubbornly not changed blue sockets to a different purple gem now that I'm arcane even though Rawr suggests something besides Glowing Twilight Opals. So I do follow Rawr for the most part and for whatever reason most of my yellow sockets are better off red.

EDIT - I also assumed Crit gems meant +16 crit yellows, when I should have just looked instead,

Last edited by Arantes : 02/11/09 at 8:14 PM.

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Old 02/12/09, 11:42 AM   #842
Lasthiel
Glass Joe
 
Lasthiel's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Shadowmoon
Originally Posted by Lons View Post
I use Scorchio for my Scorch and Living bomb timers and power auras for my Hot Streak procs and when I spec arcane my Missile Barrage Procs. I set up my power auras to put a huge red pulsing center thing on my character with a timer and my Missile Barrage is just a blue version of the same for when I respec.

Scorchio has both a visual bar and timer that shows stacks of scorch and living bomb timer. Although Xperl shows my debuffs are big buffs which helps a lot as well. Just a lot to keep up with for sure.

Does Burnout do that? If so that would be nice to do it all in one mod.
I don't see why you would need to track anyone else's debuffs, unless you have some odd raid leading style. I use Elkano's BuffBars to handle hot streak and missile barrage procs. I find it to be an alternative solution then adding more addons. Not to mention Elkano's Buffbars is a low resource addon. Assuming of course you use Elkano's Buffbars from the get go.

Secondly I use xperl with my own twist. I don't use the debuff feature at all on targets. I do however have Elkano's Buffbars altered to include target buffs. It also works nicely if you have a class that requires you to watch debuffs. Such as a shadow priest or warlock.

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Old 02/12/09, 11:56 AM   #843
TheSecretArts
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Korgath
Originally Posted by Lons View Post
I use Scorchio for my Scorch and Living bomb timers and power auras for my Hot Streak procs and when I spec arcane my Missile Barrage Procs. I set up my power auras to put a huge red pulsing center thing on my character with a timer and my Missile Barrage is just a blue version of the same for when I respec.

Scorchio has both a visual bar and timer that shows stacks of scorch and living bomb timer. Although Xperl shows my debuffs are big buffs which helps a lot as well. Just a lot to keep up with for sure.

Does Burnout do that? If so that would be nice to do it all in one mod.
I actually use a mixture of Scorchio and Xperl, because I just find it convenient because I can track my debuffs on multiple targets, and I can watch the debuffs on my main target depending on the cetuation. I don't personally use power auras (probably because any more addons and my computer would implode), I use a lightweight addon "MageHelper" which when Missile Barage, Hot Streak, or Brain Freeze procs it does colored fade-in, fade-out, kindof similiar to a flash just not as noticable, and plays a sound that i think is someone whispering the name of the buff (needs confirmation). Though sometimes I do admit MageHelper isn't too reliable because sometimes the effect can be overlooked because it isn't very flamboyent, and it does lack customizability. Though I would HIGHLY reccomend Scorchio to anyone who has issues with maintaining optimal Scorch usage and LB uptime, and even if you don't need help with scorch / LB, I would recommend it just for its usefulness.

Last edited by TheSecretArts : 02/12/09 at 11:57 AM. Reason: I said some useless comment.

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Old 02/12/09, 12:13 PM   #844
Inoko
Piston Honda
 
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Goblin Mage
 
Zul'Jin
I think the conclusion(s) we can all draw from this are:

1) There are mods that can track your buffs and debuffs
2) Different people use different mods.
3) Perhaps a mage UI thread would reduce clutter inside the other threads?

This may or may not be a signature.
You may or may not be wrong.

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Old 02/13/09, 4:12 AM   #845
poof312
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Cenarion Circle
I disagree with your remark about 'no good reason to use hot streak right away'. Using hot streak right away is a good idea to avoid overlapping procs. Oftentimes when I ignore it I'll overwrite the timer and lose an instant pyroblast.

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Old 02/13/09, 5:42 AM   #846
Shurik
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Aegwynn (EU)
For me at least I am quite comfortable with not using Hot Streak right away in certain situations. I am not sure about how much travel time is affected by range, but for me the following still works:

FB crit, FB crit -> HS while casting FB, LB (crit) going off while casting FB

Now I have two GCDs to use, either PB (what probably most people are going to choose) or refreshing LB. Concidering having 3 crits in a row already I am going to waste a HS if my FB I am casting is going to be a crit. However, standing at max Scorch range I still manage to refresh LB during the FB's travel time and loosing my PB right away. If the FB is a crit, I gain another HS immediatly after loosing that PB and can cast another right after the GCD is off.

I guess this is pretty affected by latency and probably also by range. An exception is of course if there are adds next to the boss and LB might trigger the second HS anyway. In that case you are either a fortune teller or have combustion up and stop casting your FB for PB or there was simply nothing you could do.

Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire.
- Arnold H. Glasow

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Old 02/13/09, 7:04 AM   #847
Zaldinar
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Mage
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by Shurik View Post
FB crit, FB crit -> HS while casting FB, LB (crit) going off while casting FB

Now I have two GCDs to use, either PB (what probably most people are going to choose) or refreshing LB. Concidering having 3 crits in a row already I am going to waste a HS if my FB I am casting is going to be a crit. However, standing at max Scorch range I still manage to refresh LB during the FB's travel time and loosing my PB right away. If the FB is a crit, I gain another HS immediatly after loosing that PB and can cast another right after the GCD is off.

The only way you'll lose the original HS proc is if all four are crits and you didnt precast correctly.

FB Crit->FB Crit->FB Crit->HS Pyro->FB Crit yields another proc, as would FB Crit->FB Crit->LB Crit->HS Pyro->FB Crit.

In your case, if we did FB Crit->FB Crit->LB Crit->FB Crit + HS Pyro, as long as you precast the HS Pyro on the last FB you would be fine, since it would consume the HS buff on Pyro cast, and add the new one on the FBs land. You even could probably wait a tick, but precasting makes it much more likely to succeed.

To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://zaldinar.wordpress.com/
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.

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Old 02/13/09, 7:31 AM   #848
Shurik
Von Kaiser
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Aegwynn (EU)
Either you didn't understand me or it is me who doesn't get the point.

All I'm trying to say is, that you do not lose your HS if you cast recast LB after a "FB crit, FB crit, LB crit" combo if you cast PB immediatly after the LB GCD wears off. By this you gain one GCD LB uptime (not very much, I know). If you have some serious lagg issues or have to stand close to the mob (ie Malygos or Thaddius) you should not take the risk of losing one HS and cast PB before refreshing LB.

Success isn't a result of spontaneous combustion. You must set yourself on fire.
- Arnold H. Glasow

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Old 02/13/09, 12:08 PM   #849
Solisa
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Mage
 
Lightning's Blade
Originally Posted by Shurik View Post
Either you didn't understand me or it is me who doesn't get the point.

All I'm trying to say is, that you do not lose your HS if you cast recast LB after a "FB crit, FB crit, LB crit" combo if you cast PB immediatly after the LB GCD wears off. By this you gain one GCD LB uptime (not very much, I know). If you have some serious lagg issues or have to stand close to the mob (ie Malygos or Thaddius) you should not take the risk of losing one HS and cast PB before refreshing LB.
I can confirm what he is saying, that you can get back to back HS procs (i.e., two GCDs spent on instant pyro-ing) if the stars align properly. It can also be done with scorch.

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Old 02/13/09, 12:59 PM   #850
Enthorn
Don Flamenco
 
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Undead Mage
 
Dunemaul
Well, of course you can get back to back Hot Streaks. A typical sequence, assuming all crits, for back to back would be:

Frostfire -> Frostfire -> (Hot Streak) -> Frostfire -> Living Bomb detonates -> Pyroblast -> Hot Streak

Your first Hot Streak comes from the two frostfire bolts that land, and thus you are in your casting of your third frostfire bolt. So typically you would use the Hot Streak proc after the third frostfire. Your second Hot Streak will come during the global cooldown of your first Pyroblast (assuming a 1 second travel time on the third Frostfire Bolt, and a 1.5 second GCD on the Pyroblast). Hence, back to back.

There's no real reason to not immediately cast that Pyroblast, save for two rules: You want to have 100% uptime on Scorch debuff, and you want to have near 100% uptime on Living Bomb (which is nigh impossible, but then, every writer knows that any work is never 100% complete, but still tries to approach it, ever bordering on 99%). I guess you could save it if you're about to use a mana gem, as well.

As for having a Hot Streak buff overwrite itself... it's quite difficult. It's typically a result of: lag, travel time (being too close to the boss), or carelessness. But then, other things can come into the picture as well. You would, realistically, have to do something like three Frostfire Bolt crits in a row without having used your Pyroblast from the first two. And your intentions are to do:

Frostfire -> Frostfire -> Hot Streak -> Frostfire -> Frostfire -> Pyroblast -> Hot Streak -> Pyroblast

But it ends up:

Frostfire -> Frostfire -> Hot Streak -> Frostfire -> (Living Bomb -> Hot Streak) -> Frostfire -> Pyroblast

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