inksy

By chance is your only source of replenishment the Shadow Priests whom are mind controlling that fight?

 

Althea

I dont know if this is a "simple" question, so i post it here

Yesterday with my guild we was facing Thaddius in Nax25, but we had in raid some new players with blue gear that was not providing a huge dps. Unfortunately we didn't had a Shaman, so we was missing Heroism.

My question is: i am a frostfire mage geared with Nax10 items and some Nax25 things (we started Nax25 short time ago), actually i am one of the main dps in my guild, and i whould like to know if, in Thaddius fight or in general, bringing my Resto Shaman with Heroism in raid instead of my Mage, will grant more overall dps for the raid, or if it's better to keep my Mage

I was trying to figure out some numbers, but i am not good in math

Thanks

 

Magelove

You need to look at your raid composition to decide whether a heroism will be of a decent benefit. The haste boost scales better for casters such as mages more than it does for melee classes. Sign up to wow web stats and take a look at the readings it takes, it will help your research a lot. Without more information of your raiding party, its hard to determine what you need to improve.

 

Sinless

If we roughly assume all the dps in raid benefits from heroism equally and uniformly (meaning every class gets a 30% DPS increase for 40 seconds) and the fight lasts for 5 minutes, this means your average raid dps has increased roughly by 30% * 40 / 300 = 4%.

You said you are one of the main dps in the guild, which means you are probably doing way more than 4% of the raid dps. In this case, a rough comparison shows that you are much better off bringing your mage. This assumes, of course, that noone is dying due to lack of heals.

 

Luciferuru

Hello There

Sorry for My English, I am French

I would like to ask You how do you consider the Frosfire with Arcane ?

Which One is more powerfull ?

When i saw the optimal sets for The FFB, Why do you put more haste than critik ?

Can you check my character and give me some advise please ?

 

Callix

Frostfire's average DPS is lower than Arcane's or the Fireball spec, but it has far fewer mana issues. Also, Arcane is a much smoother spec, so don't expect it to beat your best day as FFB. For the crit vs haste issue, there is always a balance between the two, and current itemisation is also a factor. Gear optimisers do the best with the available gear, but if a lot of the crit gear has excessive spirit, it's better to have more haste/SP than crit/spirit.

As to your gear, I'd reccomend using Rawr to find out if you are using your optimal gear. A quick suggestion would be to use SP/Spirit gems for your meta requirement, as with Pyromaniac Spirit is better. Secondly, I'd consider some green gems in yellow sockets to use more Runed Scarlet Rubies, as one Ruby has more spell power than two hybrid gems including spell power. Gemming your hat and shoulders with green gems and your gloves and belt buckle with runed scarlet rubies should be a straight +2 spell power. It isn't much, but it's something.

 

Lucai

So on the PTR right now it seems that Glyph of LB is not procing HS or Ignite and isn't affected/affecting Combustion or Burnout. Which I believe puts molten armor ahead still.

 

dmxcom

We are atm on PTR on Mirmiron. And i think the Hotstreak Buff dowsnt go away after the 1st Pyro.
It seems that i can cast Instant Pyro the hole lenght of the Hot Streak Buff.

Bug or intended ?

 

Brimn

if it proc'd HS then we'd have some interesting numbers because of stringing together crits. Whether it would completely devastate HS or not is yet to be seen. Ignite, if I'm not mistaken, DOES NOT stack or show up as a separate DoT.

Does anyone know if the higher tick of Ignite stays on the target?

 

solbergb

It may not replace the molten armor glyph but it could well replace the scorch glyph.

Scorch glyph on bosses = 3 less castings of scorch over entire fight. It's more helpful on things that die sooner, but by definition a living bomb glyph is going to be combined with an assumption about the target being durable enough to make it to the explosion time. On most bosses I'd guess a dps increase for the LB glyph over scorch glyph if you aren't the kind of guy who will either lose the stack or cast scorch too early out of paranoia about losing stack because you can't restore it as fast as with glyph.

 

Callix

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't Ignite roll the damage, like a warrior's Deep Wounds? If this is the case, a LB crit would increase the Ignite damage, rather than be lost/overwrite it.

 

Brimn

I'm really not sure. I only went Fireball spec a few days ago. I've been arcane for a long time now. I don't know how LB works. I'll definitely have to test it out.

 

Morthoul

Ignite rolls in the same way as Deep Wounds. Ignite is the original version of this mechanic, which has worked since the end of vanilla WoW. Deep Wounds is a copy of it.

 

Enthorn

Ignite damage rolls, but in no way does it increase in damage anymore. There is no benefit for keeping an ignite stack rolling, and in fact, if anything, I'd rather not keep it rolling, because it just means that when an ignite tick does get lost, the damage amount is significantly higher than if it had been from a single spell. And as for ignite "working," well, yes, it works as intended as far as calculating the damage it should be doing. But it doesn't work in the sense that it always accurately does that damage. It's a combination of the mechanics of ignite and latency.

 

Zaldinar

World of Warcraft - English (NA) Forums -> 2.1 ignite Mechanics

Ignites bank of damage is increased every time you crit yes, without one of the two bugs with it changing its bank value incorrectly it will always provide you a 40% bonus on your end crit damage. The concern with LB generating ignites is that you're pretty much doubling your damage events in a given time period (DoT every 3 seconds mimics 3 second nukes ignoring haste), and since Ignite ticks on a 2 second period, you run into the potential high-crit scenario of pushing your ignite damage back further and further waiting for a tick to happen since the timer restarts after each crit. That and more damage events means more potential for bugs, which can be good or bad, but in either event are annoying.

To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...icId=109841969
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.

 

Sinless

This is another question that can safely be answered with PvP in mind.

Definitely a bug. Even though that wouldn't be a terribly huge PvE dps increase.

 

Hotan

I did some extensive testing of the LB Glyph on the PTR. Here are the WWS logs, you have to actually look at the log data to figure it out, since WWS doesn't recognize DoT Crits properly. Wow Web Stats. Sorry for the messy log parse in (D) and possibly some of the others, people wouldn't leave me alone in Darnassus, just sort by my PTR name, Pyrogenics.

You'll notice I didn't really check percent modifiers. They are quite simple and don't require significant testing. Really it's only crit rates that need testing, and i figured why not also test ignite, CSD and 4P T7 while I am at it.

Things effected by LB Glyph:
4P T7 - Shown in all
Chaotic Skyflare Diamond - Shown in all
Critical Mass - Shown in (C)

Things not effected by LB Glyph:
Hot Streak - Shown in all
Master of Elements - Shown in all
World in Flames - Shown in (C)
Ignite - Shown in (D)
Combustion (in any way shape or form) - Shown in (D)
Burnout (really...really...) - Shown in (D)

(A)
Spec in CODENo Proc based gear (deathchill or trinkets)
4P T7 and CSD both present
1847 Spellpower
20.31% fire crit (Pyromaniac)
17.31% spell crit

736 LB DoT Hit
1157 LB DoT crit
142/500 LB DoT crits = 23.7%

(B)
Naked
Zero Spellpower
5.07% fire crit (Pyromaniac)
2.07% spell crit

355 LB DoT hit
533 LB DoT crit
29/600 LB DoT crits = 4.8%


(C)
No Proc based gear (deathchill or trinkets)
4P T7 and CSD both present
1847 Spellpower
26.31% fire crit (Pyromaniac + Critical Mass)
17.31% spell crit
+6 "LB" crit from World in Flames

736 LB DoT Hit
1157 LB DoT Crit
151/600 LB DoT Crits = 25.2%


(D) This one is mostly just combustion testing, but the start of the log has some other stuff.
No Proc based gear (deathchill or trinkets)
4P T7 and CSD both present
1847 Spellpower
26.31% fire crit (Pyromaniac + Critical Mass)
17.31% spell crit
+6 "LB" crit from World in Flames
+"10" crit from scorch debuff
4x Combustion (For the bulk of the testing)

736 LB DoT Hit
1157 LB DoT Crit
23/84 LB DoT Crits = 27.4%

 

brutalmagics

Is it really wise to have this talent? I mean we are squishy as it is, do we really want to chance getting hit that hard? I understand the idea about being ranged I shouldn't get hit that much, but when I do it hurts. Is the extra damge really worth that chance of getting one shotted and then be dead?

 

Pheroz

When was the last time you died from a hit in a raid encounter without significant overkill? In the vast majority of situations where you are killed, there is multiple thousands of overkill damage. The # of situations where the overkill is unders several hundred, where you would have lived if you didnt have the playing with fire talent, is astronomically small.

The extra damage taken doesn't effect our survivability enough to matter. It certainly doesn't effect is nearly as much as the fact that our mana gems lock us out of healthstone usage.

While its rather dumb that the talent has the drawback (even though it makes sense flavorwise), the drawback is negligible for PVE raiding siutations.

 

Docjowles

Basically this. Barring a few very specific encounters like your first Naj'entus pulls, the entire raid isn't routinely in danger of being one shot unless you're asleep and standing in fire. Doing 3% more damage on every cast hugely outweighs the rare situation where you get hit for 20,000 damage and survive with 200 HP left because you didn't take Playing With Fire.

Manly joked once that he'd spec all 71 points into Playing With Fire if he could... except I am not sure it was a joke

 

brutalmagics

Thank you.
I have myself been one or 2 shotted a few times already, and if I got hit with 20K Damage I would die right now.
As you will see here I chose to opt out of Health for other gains: The World of Warcraft Armory, but I do understand the logic.

 

odyz

Deleted.

 

shivenz

Although I did read a lot of this thread, I am not sure if I am bringing up an old topic or not. I saw in the initial post that this was still up for discussion, so hopefully I'm not beating a dead horse.

Anyways, my question is in regards to refreshing LB vs. HS Pyro. Logically, you should refresh LB first and then do Pyro, however, on occasion, an airborne FFB will refresh the HS while you are waiting for LB GCD. This is a lost HS Pyro when you could've done HS Pyro > LB > HS Pyro. This did not used to be an issue until recently, now that I'm critting in the 55-65% range. I was wondering at what crit% the cutoff is to switch from LB > HS Pyro to HS Pyro > LB.

 

Hotan

shivenz, that is a tough question, but one thing to keep in mind is watching whether or not the FFB (or FB) cast while HS was up crit.

 

Charlyfox

Dear EJs,

This is my first post here so I’d likle to thanks every contributor of this outstanding forum. I’ll add that being French I am not a native English speaker and beg for your lenience concerning my English.

Context of my question:

1) I am the scorch bitch of the raid.
2) From readings here I assume that letting the scorch debuff drop will loose more overall raid dps than any personal gains I could make so I need to keep it up all time.

Motivation of my question:

Given the big dps difference between scorch and ffb, and the fact that the scorch debuff has a fixed duration unaffected by haste, I believe that there exist some haste break point where haste doesn t scale dps linearly:

Basically where you can include one more ffb in your scorche debuff maintaining rotation, you change your ffb/scorch ratio and will expect a non linear gain of dps (a kind of threshold/breakpoint effect). More accurately, the percentage of time you will be dpsing using ffb vs scorche takes a step change when you fit an extra ffb in your routine.

My question is the following:

what is the right mathematical modelisation that can take provide those haste breakpoints/steps taking into account the GCD of HS pyro and LB?

I fell that using an average number of Pyro+LB will not take into account the integer/ arithmetical side of this problem…

I know simulating in rawr will give me a good result for any one gearset but please keep in mind I am looking for the haste break points.