side note to blastwave on anub hm: while it would be a cute dps gain you are unable to use it because of the knockback effect. The negative points of db allready have been mentioned and i found the necessary positioning for it to be a far greater dps loss then the spell itself was a gain no to mention that it's impossible to hit all 4 adds with it when using a two tank strat
side note to blastwave on anub hm: while it would be a cute dps gain you are unable to use it because of the knockback effect. The negative points of db allready have been mentioned and i found the necessary positioning for it to be a far greater dps loss then the spell itself was a gain no to mention that it's impossible to hit all 4 adds with it when using a two tank strat
About the knockback, there is a minor glyph one can get which removes the knockback.
Using unglyphed blastwave can be a very viable strategy to reactively interrupt shadow strike because there are no diminshed returns on knockback effects that I know of.
It worked well a few tries, but we stopped using it because of the precise positioning requirement of the adds, so they do not get knocked OFF the ice (and burrow).
Unglyphed blastwave is not really helping on the big adds, but its quite a helpfull little spell on the small adds during kiting-phase. Getting them off your back for even a second or two might make the difference between having 3-4 stacks of the debuff (harmless) or potentially critical high numbers. Its not much, but its a bit of a help really. I'd definately include it in a FFB-build for Anub.
So there was some discussion about specs for Anub HM...
We tried Anub tonight using 2 tanks and 6 healers. Pretty heavy on dps. We had 4 dks and 3 mages. Two mages were FFB the third was fire.
Aoe was going down before my second round of LB would go off. Our fire mage and ffb mages were doing roughly the same AoE dps. Threat was very touchy and the FFB mages seemed to have more issues with threat.
As FFB my rotation was LBx4, Flamestrike, Blizzard. This was hasted each wave (IV one, Scale the next). Fire mage rotation was LBx4, AE, FS 9, FS 8, AE. What are the best specs and rotations depending on how long the adds live?
So there was some discussion about specs for Anub HM...
We tried Anub tonight using 2 tanks and 6 healers. Pretty heavy on dps. We had 4 dks and 3 mages. Two mages were FFB the third was fire.
Aoe was going down before my second round of LB would go off. Our fire mage and ffb mages were doing roughly the same AoE dps. Threat was very touchy and the FFB mages seemed to have more issues with threat.
As FFB my rotation was LBx4, Flamestrike, Blizzard. This was hasted each wave (IV one, Scale the next). Fire mage rotation was LBx4, AE, FS 9, FS 8, AE. What are the best specs and rotations depending on how long the adds live?
If your fire mage was doing the same dmg in aoe as your ffb mages, then your ffb mages need to step it up. If you are using 1 ice patch and 2 tanks then I found 1 round of LB + FS + Blizzard spam gave me the best results. We use 3 tanks more successfully so I was forced to drop FS due to radius limitations. Blastwave can also be used once per add set if you spec into it (remember to get the minor glyph though).
I took some time to go through our damage last night, I was one of the FFB mages.
In 28 attempts, I topped mage aoe 18 times and our fire mage beat me 9 times. I guess that's a decent ratio considering the length of our attempts. Even so, the fire mage wasn't dreadfully low on dmg, making me think that with enough mages it may be overkill to run FFB. We have 4 active mages and I think the fourth could realistically be either fire or arcane for the fight.
If your fire mage was doing the same dmg in aoe as your ffb mages, then your ffb mages need to step it up. If you are using 1 ice patch and 2 tanks then I found 1 round of LB + FS + Blizzard spam gave me the best results. We use 3 tanks more successfully so I was forced to drop FS due to radius limitations. Blastwave can also be used once per add set if you spec into it (remember to get the minor glyph though).
Pretty much agree 100% here. Basically, in the 4 globals you spent applying the second round of living bombs that didn't even go off, and when figuring latency and reaction time into the equation, you could have channeled an entire blizzard cast and have started another one, and ya, when 3 tanking it with two patches, stay away from flamestrike as focal stated.
Fire's AOE just doesn't stack up if the FFB mage is doing it right. Something that helped me a lot in order to very easily get living bombs out on the burrowers as they come in is a simple mouse-over macro (which i can post if you like, but I'm sure u can find one to suite your needs, or it's quite possible that you already are using one). It's really nice to be able to keep Anub targetted and go right back to a few FFB's on him while aggro is established by the tanks before you begin to aoe.
We are using 2 tanks total, 1 on Anub and 1 for all 4 adds. Flamestrike is very viable for this. With that, Fire's aoe is much stronger since you aren't relying completely on Blizzard/LB.
We are using 2 tanks total, 1 on Anub and 1 for all 4 adds. Flamestrike is very viable for this. With that, Fire's aoe is much stronger since you aren't relying completely on Blizzard/LB.
Fire's AoE is the worst of all the Mage raiding specs. Frostfire offers the exact same benefits as Fire's AoE but also has the added critical strike damage on Blizzard from Ice Shards and offers an extra 50% crit on Frostbite targets if you spec into Imp Blizzard and Shatter. Fire may do "fine" on Anub, but there's no reason not to be optimal.
As far as i know if you want to use the scorch glyph you should renounce to FFB or FB glyph and use LB and molten armor.
The last one grants you more dps than the FFB/ FB one.
Probably depends on your spirit for me rawr shows a little advantage for MA glyph for fireball and bigger for frostfire.
The border line seems to be around 700 spirit.
So there was some discussion about specs for Anub HM...
We tried Anub tonight using 2 tanks and 6 healers. Pretty heavy on dps. We had 4 dks and 3 mages. Two mages were FFB the third was fire.
Aoe was going down before my second round of LB would go off. Our fire mage and ffb mages were doing roughly the same AoE dps. Threat was very touchy and the FFB mages seemed to have more issues with threat.
As FFB my rotation was LBx4, Flamestrike, Blizzard. This was hasted each wave (IV one, Scale the next). Fire mage rotation was LBx4, AE, FS 9, FS 8, AE. What are the best specs and rotations depending on how long the adds live?
25man heroic? If you're using the 2 add tank strat, don't even bother using Flamestrike. There's no way it would hit all 5 targets without the tanks screwing up and bringing the adds too close together. Don't refresh LB either. Fairly certain it's better to just LB once (on boss/all 4 adds when they're running to the middle and too spread out for Blizzard to hit everything) and start chaining Blizzard once they are all within range. The AOE damage from LB off the adds won't hit all 5 targets anyway. We MD the adds when they spawn so threat isn't a problem and we start AOE asap.
I haven't found any details on Frostbite/Imp. Blizzard in the Anub fight. Has anybody tested if those talents work against the burrowers? If they work, how long does a Frostbite proc hold under constant AoE?
If for some reason it holds long enough, it could be worth it to go 3/3 Shatter and sacrifice some mana reduction for it.
Edit: Found an answer in a post in the general mage discussion thread, looks like Frostbite does work on the adds. However, do the procs last full duration (and are there diminishing returns like for stuns now)?
Its not diminishing returns, but the fact that frozen status is broken from damage. With me and another mage speced into Frostbite, imp Blizz, and Shatter, Frostbite had decent up time. It was also a noticeable DPS increase. 10% or so. Shatter does affect LB crit too, so exploding LBs on frozen targets = ignite = more damage.
I know I said it in the other thread, but it was mentioned here so I'll add it:
I found it slightly beneficial to reapply LB to Anub (but not the adds), since it will explode again while the adds are up, and hit all the adds. Hopefully frozen adds
Here is the parse from our 1st kill (last night!) I know its not a top 20 performance, but ill do better next week. Hope it helps. WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay
To add to the data a little more, here is Korva on HM Anub. He really raped those bugs.
They are definitly effected by diminishing return! We tried this a couple of weeks ago and noticed that after having an add frozen for 3 times it stopped getting frozen.
Also there was a blue post couple of weeks ago where they stated that those adds are effected by diminishing returns so you couldn't stun them till they are dead.
But since you guys are all talking about Anub HM I was wondering if anyone has evidence that proves fiery payback to be working. I would be a nice talent to negate some of the frost burst damage that is dealt in P3.
No, Ferrador. We're discussing diminishing returns with regard to root effects (i.e., frost nova, frost bite), not stuns. The blue post you're referring to addressed diminishing returns with regard to stun effects (specifically, Holy Wrath). These two effects are not the same, and root effects are not subject to diminishing returns.
Daytrader is correct about Frostbite breaking early because of damage. It has always behaved this way.
No, Ferrador. We're discussing diminishing returns with regard to root effects (i.e., frost nova, frost bite), not stuns. The blue post you're referring to addressed diminishing returns with regard to stun effects (specifically, Holy Wrath). These two effects are not the same, and root effects are not subject to diminishing returns.
Daytrader is correct about Frostbite breaking early because of damage. It has always behaved this way.
Arbitur, re-read his post. He specifically says in his post,
"They are definitly effected by diminishing return! We tried this a couple of weeks ago and noticed that after having an add frozen for 3 times it stopped getting frozen."
Whether you want to take his word for it is something else, but according to him they have DR for being frozen (tbh I didn't know there was DR for being frozen? Seems odd).
I understand what he wrote, but my point is that I believe he's conflating stuns and roots (or, to use his term, freezes). I'm having a hard time even imagining how he tested for diminishing returns on root effects with the adds, unless he used the frostbite, imp. blizzard and shatter spec. I haven't used that particular spec myself yet, but I can't imagine frostbite ceasing to proc after three effects. Maybe someone who has used the spec can chime in.
Frostbite/Shattered Barrier (aka uncontrolled roots) share diminishing returns in pvp, however unless they specifically tagged the burrowers as pvp targets (like the faction champions) they should be rerootable all the time.
Regarding Fiery Payback it does work for Penetrating Cold, some warnings are in order though; the talent is horribly bugged, the flag that makes your pyroblasts CD based isn't reset when you're above 35% so if you drop below 35% then are healed to above it your pyroblasts are still on 6s cd.
Also if you die on low percentage that same flag isn't reset, I didn't check if damage reduction is applied in those cases as well or the short cast on Pyroblasts. Even respeccing keeps that same flag on, I respecced to Fire/TTW and didn't even have the talent in any of my specs and still had the 6s cd on Fireballs. What resset it is dying (without the talent) and/or relogging.
EDIT: the damage reduction is not applied when you're above 35% and/or have no Fiery Payback even when it's bugged.
10/08/09, 10:13 AM
