Rawr.Mage - Page 31

Hinalover · 04/28/09, 6:06 PM

Originally Posted by Pakostevens

is rawr's modeling of 4pc t8 pretty accurate atm? It seems to want me to use 2pc t7 and 3pc t8 no matter what I try, that always comes ahead.

Right now it's modeling at a 10% proc rate. until more people can get 4pc and test the proc rating, we won't know how effective the 4pc really is. Currently there has only been one mage on the forums who has gotten 4pc to give his early estimates. Even then he said that there were times in which the buff did not go away for 3-4 Pyros.

Raencloud · 04/29/09, 3:42 AM

Originally Posted by Hinalover

Right now it's modeling at a 10% proc rate. until more people can get 4pc and test the proc rating, we won't know how effective the 4pc really is. Currently there has only been one mage on the forums who has gotten 4pc to give his early estimates. Even then he said that there were times in which the buff did not go away for 3-4 Pyros.

I just completed my 4piece tonight and I'll run some tests tomorrow. I was able to do a few small tests on the target dummy as fireball spec. The first time I proc'd HS 8 times. On those 8, one time I got 1 additional Pyro, and the 2nd time I got 2 additional pyros. Unfortunately I didn't look close enough to make sure it wasn't just 2 proc's in a row, and it never happened again in the short time I looked at it.

The second test I went through an entire mana bar and didn't receive any additional Pyros. I then evocated and went through another mana bar and got 2 extras. They came relatively close together (like within 20 seconds), so I don't believe there is a GCD on it at all.

What I can tell you is that you do not "refresh" after a proc and there is no indication that the effect was triggered; HS just doesn't go away, and the timer continues (it's not reset). Tomorrow I will run some combat logs on a dummy to and get better results.

TigaFin · 04/29/09, 5:05 AM

It may be easier to test the proc rate with brain freeze (assuming it's the same probability), since you can't proc brain freeze with fireball, whereas you can proc HS with HS pyroblasts. I think the effect is quite familiar to those who played on the PTR: there was a build for about a week where everyone had a 100% chance to gain the 4 item T8 bonus (HS and BF only faded after the timer expired).

Light4 · 04/29/09, 5:13 AM

Is there a way for Rawr to model the contribution of individual talent points to dps, i.e. of talents without the maximum amount of points put in?
When I have a look at the contributions from talents the numbers displayed there are the same, regardless of the number of talent points put into it, only the green background is removed if not the meximum amount of points are put into it.

In the light of Ulduar fights and inc. damage I thought of dropping the least 3 talent points in terms of dps and put them into absorption.

Masnie · 04/29/09, 5:18 AM

Originally Posted by TigaFin

It may be easier to test the proc rate with brain freeze (assuming it's the same probability), since you can't proc brain freeze with fireball, whereas you can proc HS with HS pyroblasts.

Unless the tooltip is wrong pyroblast crits will not count towards HS: Hot Streak - Spell - World of Warcraft

dersleeper · 04/29/09, 5:26 AM

Originally Posted by Light4

Is there a way for Rawr to model the contribution of individual talent points to dps, i.e. of talents without the maximum amount of points put in?
When I have a look at the contributions from talents the numbers displayed there are the same, regardless of the number of talent points put into it, only the green background is removed if not the meximum amount of points are put into it.

If you look at the Talent page it shows the DPS value PER talent point. So it's nice and easy to compare.
What it doesn't do: Give filler or prerequisite talents (for better talents down the tree) any value.

For example:
In an arcane build you would usually put 2 points in Ice Shards. But since you don't use any frost spells in a typical boss fight the talent would have a value of 0. BUT putting points there gives you access to Icy Veins which is worth a LOT more per talent point.

• Wizeowel · 04/29/09, 6:39 AM

Kavan, if possible could you add a "Shadow Crash" option to Rawr.mage? This would be for the General Vezax fight where casters become immune to all forms of mana regen, but standing in these clouds lowers spell cost and increases dps.

Shadow Crash - Spell - World of Warcraft

Kavan · 04/29/09, 6:59 AM

Originally Posted by Wizeowel

Kavan, if possible could you add a "Shadow Crash" option to Rawr.mage? This would be for the General Vezax fight where casters become immune to all forms of mana regen, but standing in these clouds lowers spell cost and increases dps.

Shadow Crash - Spell - World of Warcraft

I was thinking of adding something like this. First I just thought of disabling mana regen, but then I wasn't sure how to handle the buff. I'm thinking of treating it as a proper buff, with you specifying its uptime (meaning how often you're able to stand in it) so that it would be able to give proper solution as to what to do in shadow crash and what outside.

I got stuck a bit on how to handle this in combination with segmentation. I guess best would be like specify exactly when it happens in the cooldown editor. I was thinking of having it split in each segment, but I think that isn't very realistic as it's not that fragmented. I think I'll just let it stack shadow crash with other buffs optimally, because that's easiest for me to implement. Obviously this isn't realistic as you can't choose when you get the buff, so the alternative is to go with the cooldown editor.

Also do we know whether the mana cost reduction from it is on base mana or on final cost?

jula · 04/29/09, 7:36 AM

In "Stats" tab, under "Spell Info" i see a list of spells and their dps, such as "Living bomb 8500 dps*". Mousing over the "*" opens a tooltip of additional information. This tooltip writes "... 2200-2200 hit, 5700-5700 crit, 7700 dot, 1.20 amplify, 62.5% crit rate, 99.9% hit rate, 2.58 crit multiplier".
Does this "7700 dot" include dot crits in it?
What is "1.2 amplify" and what is "2.58 crit multiplier" ?
I'm trying to find out the average damage of a single living bomb.

• Wizeowel · 04/29/09, 9:16 AM

Originally Posted by Kavan

I wasn't sure how to handle the buff. I'm thinking of treating it as a proper buff, with you specifying its uptime (meaning how often you're able to stand in it) so that it would be able to give proper solution as to what to do in shadow crash and what outside.

... Obviously this isn't realistic as you can't choose when you get the buff ...

Also do we know whether the mana cost reduction from it is on base mana or on final cost?

To answer the first part: I don't cast at all if I'm not in shadow crash. Even to the extent that I'll cancel a cast if the buff is about to fade. Basically your casting time is limited to your starting mana, and how many (if any) saronite vapours you take. Perhaps it's easiest to make it simple in Rawr: if you check the 'shadow crash' box, then it would calculate how much damage you can do with just your mana pool, and presuming the haste+damage buffs are up 100%. Then the player himself can judge how many vapours he'll need.

The second part: yes you can choose when to get the buff. The crash is like the orbs at void reaver in SSC. Bigwigs will make someone yell 'crash on me' and the crash will arc slowly through the air, giving players enough time to move away from the damage, but also indicating the exact spot where the next buff is available. So if you time it right, you can get 18-19 seconds of the 20 second duration.

The last part, I don't honestly know. Maybe someone has some WWS to show, where they know they ended on zero mana, we could perhaps extrapolate mana usage from the amount of casts they did. Not very exact though.

Maje · 04/29/09, 9:31 AM

I'll check how the mana cost reduction is applied next time we're on him. And I agree with Wizeowel, you don't want to cast outside of the crashes at all except for the edge case when he's about to die and no crashes are available and you aren't oom.

Rawr modeling it would help answer the question of what spec would you want to be if you're doing hard mode and limited to initial mana with 0 regens.

Laekoth · 04/29/09, 10:13 AM

As far as the shadow crash theorycrafting, all i would want to get out of that is to know if the optimal rotation would change with the 70% mana reduction. I feel any further options (as previously mentioned) in rawr would be unnecessary. The only reason i could think it might change is how that 70% mana reduction is calculated with other mana reduction talents and ab stacking.

On a side note, i have found the trinket [Pandora's Plea] to be very highly rated according to rawr. At first i had assumed it was a mana related issue but i'm not sure now. Has anyone else found this trinket to be ranked highly by rawr, or done other theorycrafting on it? I haven't seen any posts about it.

Pakostevens · 04/29/09, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Hinalover

Right now it's modeling at a 10% proc rate. until more people can get 4pc and test the proc rating, we won't know how effective the 4pc really is. Currently there has only been one mage on the forums who has gotten 4pc to give his early estimates. Even then he said that there were times in which the buff did not go away for 3-4 Pyros.

Wow Web Stats
short test i did this morning. 19 hot streaks & 25 pyro's.

There really doesn't seem to be any internal cooldown to this so it is very rng. The biggest streak i had last night was 4 pyros from 1 hot streak, but the majority of them were just 1 extra pyro.

http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat...4188#damageout - 15 HS & 20 pyros
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat...4213#damageout - 12 HS & 15 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 27 HS & 34 pyros
http://www.wowmeteronline.com/combat...4323#damageout - 13 HS & 20 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 23 HS & 27 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 23 HS & 28 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 27 HS & 34 pyros
total for the whole night
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 266 HS & 309 pyros
But you have to take into account some of these hotstreaks couldnt be used because they proc'd just as the mob died. We also had horrible horrible lag throughout most of the night, I remember razorscale and hodir barely being playable.

Pakostevens · 04/29/09, 11:23 AM

delete plz

Hinalover · 04/29/09, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by Pakostevens

Wow Web Stats
short test i did this morning. 19 hot streaks & 25 pyro's.

There really doesn't seem to be any internal cooldown to this so it is very rng. The biggest streak i had last night was 4 pyros from 1 hot streak, but the majority of them were just 1 extra pyro.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 15 HS & 20 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 12 HS & 15 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 27 HS & 34 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 13 HS & 20 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 23 HS & 27 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 23 HS & 28 pyros
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 27 HS & 34 pyros
total for the whole night
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 266 HS & 309 pyros
But you have to take into account some of these hotstreaks couldnt be used because they proc'd just as the mob died. We also had horrible horrible lag throughout most of the night, I remember razorscale and hodir barely being playable.

So according to those, it's more of a 21-50% chance of proccing. I'd say setting the proc rate at 25-30% would be reasonable. Given that your allowed 1-4 extra Pyros.