Rawr.Mage - Page 32

Peacemaker7 · 04/29/09, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Pakostevens

Wow Web Stats

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish - 266 HS & 309 pyros
But you have to take into account some of these hotstreaks couldnt be used because they proc'd just as the mob died. We also had horrible horrible lag throughout most of the night, I remember razorscale and hodir barely being playable.

The largest sample size gives the following proc rate:

(309 - 266) / 226 = 16.2% chance

I would guess that the actual proc rate is either 15% or 20% since most abilities use multiples of 5%. An even larger sample will be needed to make a final determination.

Hinalover · 04/29/09, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker7

The largest sample size gives the following proc rate:

(309 - 266) / 226 = 16.2% chance

I would guess that the actual proc rate is either 15% or 20% since most abilities use multiples of 5%. An even larger sample will be needed to make a final determination.

However you also have to take into consideration of HS falling off before he can cast Pyroblast. He even mentioned that fights like Razor and Hodir, he was lagging so much that he missed chances to use his HS buff. So even at the minimum, 20% is probably the lowest we should rate it at.

P-ROCKS · 04/29/09, 3:38 PM

I, also, have 4 pc t8 and I believe the proc rate to be closer to 20%.

WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish 275 Pyros and 232 Hotstreaks
WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish 224 Pyros and 183 Hotstreaks

In the second report, we did our Mirmiron attempts and I did have some unused hotstreaks due to the phase transitions.

Raencloud · 04/29/09, 4:15 PM

Ok I sat at a dummy for about 2 hours today.

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WoW Meter Online - Combatlog Replay in Engrish

Both are the same report. I tried to avoid using LB so that I wouldn't run into any proc collisions (i.e. 4 procs in a row from say 3 FFB and a LB crit). I did mess up once; I proc'd HS and used 1 pyro, and then didn't have enough mana to use another even though I still had the HS buff. That should be the only skew in the data though.

Some things I noticed... there is definately no ICD, the 4p can "proc" on itself and they often times came in bunches (long streaks of no procs and then lots of them). I had up to 5 instant pyros in a row at one point. Since the "proc" doesn't reset the timer, though, you will be limited by the GCD and HS timer on how many you can use.

Just to consolidate a little:

I cast 417 Pyro's from 332 HS procs, but one of the HS's I casted a pryo and then ran out of mana to cast another, so I think we should exclude that, and go with 416 pyro / 331 HS. That puts the proc rate at 25.6% or roughly 25%.

Peacemaker7 · 04/29/09, 4:25 PM

A 25% proc rate with no ICD I strongly suspect will be better than the 2pc + 2pc bonus. If mana is an issue, dropping molten for mage armor should still be a DPS increase. I would like to see the results to confirm/deny this in rawr though.

Raencloud · 04/29/09, 4:54 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker7

A 25% proc rate with no ICD I strongly suspect will be better than the 2pc + 2pc bonus. If mana is an issue, dropping molten for mage armor should still be a DPS increase. I would like to see the results to confirm/deny this in rawr though.

I don't understand these reports that 2pc+2pc was ever optimal. Every version of Rawr has been suggesting I break my 2pc for almost any of the new items from ulduar. Really, the most useful thing about the t7 2p was the extra mana from the gem for fireball and arcane specs. 225 dmg for 15 seconds every 2 minutes isn't good enough to keep 2p of t7. Conq is already ~21-43 SP higher than previous tier for each individual piece, and that's only looking at SP upgrades and nothing else. 225 sp for 15 seconds every 2 minutes ends up being only 28.125 average SP (225 * 15/120). There may be some added benefit for being able to stack that, so some cases may have 2pt7 being better than the just 1 additional upgrade, but theres no way I can see the 2pt7 ever being better than 2 pieces of tier 8 even if there was no set bonus.

Enthorn · 04/29/09, 4:55 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker7

A 25% proc rate with no ICD I strongly suspect will be better than the 2pc + 2pc bonus. If mana is an issue, dropping molten for mage armor should still be a DPS increase. I would like to see the results to confirm/deny this in rawr though.

You would be absolutely killing yourself on single target DPS if you dropped Molten Armor. At 600 spirit, you'd be giving up 330 crit (7.19%). At 800 spirit, you'd be giving up 440 crit (9.59%). This would lower your Hot Streak procs, lower your mana return from Master of Elements (which is ahead of Mana Gems, behind Replenishment), and therefore lower the very point of using Mage Armor.

In other words, if you're using Mage Armor because you need more mana to sustain bonus Hot Streak procs, and you drop your crit rate by 7-10%, then you won't have nearly as many Hot Streak procs to start the initial Hot Streak chain, nor will as many of them be criticals, and thus your mana return will be lower (which, in a way, counters Mage Armor).

I don't have the numbers for it, but I'm going to have to say switching to Mage Armor would always be a DPS loss as far as T8 4-piece bonus is concerned.

Raencloud · 04/29/09, 5:04 PM

I wanted to clear something up about my test, because I'm afraid it's getting derailed from my comment about running out of mana. The test was done on a target dummy with no raid buffs (just mage buffs and debuffs). I don't suspect there will be much of an impact on mana at all. I haven't had a chance to go test it in an actual raid yet (I got my 4th piece on our last kill of the night Tuesday), but at least right now I haven't even had to use evocation on any fight as fireball so far (I was raiding as FFB before and there obviously isn't issues there), so I seriously doubt there is going to be mana issues from a few extra pyroblasts.

Kavan · 04/29/09, 6:04 PM

Originally Posted by Raencloud

I cast 417 Pyro's from 332 HS procs, but one of the HS's I casted a pryo and then ran out of mana to cast another, so I think we should exclude that, and go with 416 pyro / 331 HS. That puts the proc rate at 25.6% or roughly 25%.

Increase in number of Pyros is 25%, this means the proc rate is 1-1/1.25=0.2 or 20%. If you're not clear on math imagine if proc rate was 100%, then you wouldn't see 100% increase in pyros but infinite increase in pyros (or however many the HS buff duration allows). I'll get 20% proc version in next release.

Hinalover · 04/29/09, 6:15 PM

Well, I just downloaded one of the latest RAWR builds (33586, since I was getting a null value error with build 33587 when loading in the head from my saved xml file). I would like to point out that I'm basing my findings by useing the Hard-mode gear-set laid down by Enthorn in his Optimal Set thread. I'm also setting every setting exactly as he has described (including the optional settings).

Using that gear set, with 2.2.1.0, I am getting a dps of 7429.17.

After going into build 33586, I edited the SetBonus4T8ProcRate variable to 25% (from 10%) (in the CalculationOptionsMage.cs file)

The dps that comes out of the changed proc rate comes to 7599.81 dps.

That is a difference of 168.78 dps increase.

PS: My trinkets I'm using Scale of Fates (125 SP; 432 [20 Sec/2 Min] Use) and Flare of the Heavens (120 Crit Rating; 850 SP [10 Sec 10% on Damage Spell Hit/45 Sec])

PPS: Looks like Kaven changed the proc rate to 20% in build 33589

PPPS: With build 33589, using the 20% proc rate, then the dps comes to 7563.09 (Still a 133.92 dps increase)

Raencloud · 04/29/09, 7:53 PM

Originally Posted by Kavan

Increase in number of Pyros is 25%, this means the proc rate is 1-1/1.25=0.2 or 20%. If you're not clear on math imagine if proc rate was 100%, then you wouldn't see 100% increase in pyros but infinite increase in pyros (or however many the HS buff duration allows). I'll get 20% proc version in next release.

Ahh yes, I should have caught that. Also, based on what Hina is saying, the 4p might actually be better than the 2p is now, which means our set bonuses are pretty damn amazing compared to some of the others (both worth over 150 dps). That might make them hard to replace in the next tier.

Hinalover · 04/29/09, 10:17 PM

Well, If I set the set bonus to 0%, I get a dps of 7404.74

so the 4 piece is worth 158.35 dps

Kavan · 04/30/09, 5:26 PM

I've added new effect options that should let you model Shadow Crash. Disable evocation, mana gem and all mana regen buffs and set damage multiplier to 2, haste multiplier to 2, cost multiplier to 0.3 and regen multiplier to 0. Also set fight length to your estimate of total time in shadow crash, not total fight duration.

♦ nathanbp · 04/30/09, 5:30 PM

Originally Posted by Kavan

I've added new effect options that should let you model Shadow Crash. Disable evocation, mana gem and all mana regen buffs and set damage multiplier to 2, haste multiplier to 2, cost multiplier to 0.3 and regen multiplier to 0. Also set fight length to your estimate of total time in shadow crash, not total fight duration.

Does that disable Master of Elements or should we spec out of it?

Kavan · 04/30/09, 6:05 PM

Originally Posted by nathanbp

Does that disable Master of Elements or should we spec out of it?

It only disables spirit regen, so yea best to disable MoE.