Fire Power doesn't, but it seems that Playing with Fire does. Also on a 5 minute fight rawr seems to model the damage at around 6.5k with 8 hits where is on Algalon 5 minutes fight the damage the proc did was 52.5k on 20 hits. The crit rate (not sure what rawr uses) was around the crit rate of my spells though the sample size is to small to say for certain.

Edit: also it seems changing the fight length doesn't change the amount of damage done by the proc in rawr.

Not sure how much that'll help but with 50 procs the damage was as follows (boss):
hit: 1647(R: 364) - 2355 (avg - 2048.3 some damage was partially resisted)
crit: 2563(R: 367) - 3539 (avg - 3143.3 some damage was partially resisted)

Normal fire build, with CoE on the target.

I posted this in the item sets thread several days ago, but basically it's affected by CoE (+13% spell damage), playing with fire (+3% spell damage), and sanctified ret (+3% all damage). Crits are also affected by CSD (154.5% crits). My crit rate appears to be the expected rate based on what shows for spell (not fire) crit on the character sheet, plus debuffs like imp scorch. It is subject to the usual +3 level target spell resists as well.

I've found the problem you're having. It's just a display issue, the by spell tooltip isn't showing all the damage from the proc, I'll have it fixed. For a full raid buffed with fixed CoE I'm getting average damage at about 2700 in Rawr which seems to be in line with your data.

Yep the damage is shown properly now, only one issue due to how rawr models the proc ie. damage per crit and not every 3 crits the number of proc hits is actually multiplied by 3. Not important.

3.2.2 Combustion according to rawr is a wooping .3% dps increase, unless it's not moddeled properly; I used v.36594 .

Ok after looking at the new rawr. I noticed a option in buffs/potions. That allows you to enable "double pot trick". What is this? I have never noticed this in prior releases.

It means you pop a pot right before you enter combat so that the cooldown starts, enabling you to use a second pot later on in the fight.

This is already in Rawr. It's modeled off the data you put on the Survivability tab of the Options page. For example, put in 1500 fire DPS, with 0.5s frequency, and 1500 absorption per second to simulate Twin Val'kyr.

What I don't understand is the DPS value of 3.2.2 Combustion, I checked rawr's valuation (v36594) vs how simcraft values it (r3288). I enabled 3.2.2 in both, Rawr values combustion as around 15dps (0.1%) increase while simcraft at 100dps (1.2%).

Ok I got the absorb part working now, but is there a way to model the mana gains from using 2/2 Frost Warding and using Fire/Frost Ward to absorb dmg? I know when I did twins on 10 man earlier this week I gained over 23k mana just from using fire ward.

Well, I managed to break RAWR.

I just got [Enlightenment]. I ran the optimizer, it told me to equip it, along with changing some other gear around. I had some trouble with the enchant on it, but think I figured that out. At this point I noticed that the Off-Hand item was grayed out.

I then ran optimizer again, this time for my 10 man group (no 3% hit buff) and noticed it was having me go back to my MH OH combo. I noticed it changed my gem on my OH even though I did not select the override option. I realized I probably did not change the green diamond to a purple diamond on that item. I went to go accomplish that, but I could not (and still can not) select an OH item. Not from the drop-down, and not from clicking on that slot on the left side. The slot is empty (not filled with a grayed out item)

I removed RAWR and re-downloaded. Problem still exists.

I removed all diamonds next to [Enlightenment], equipped a sword, saved my character, exited and restarted RAWR. Still can not get OH to show.

I made sure that Offhand/Misc. Misc. is checked in Tools/Refine Types of Items Listed

I am getting an exception:

************** Exception Text **************
System.NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object.
at Rawr.Character.GetRelevantItemInstances(CharacterSlot slot)
at Rawr.ItemComparison.LoadGearBySlot(CharacterSlot slot)
at Rawr.FormMain.LoadComparisonData(String chartTag)
at Rawr.FormMain.slotToolStripMenuItem_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.RaiseEvent(Object key, EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripMenuItem.OnClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleClick(EventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.HandleMouseUp(MouseEventArgs e)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEventInteractive(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripItem.FireEvent(EventArgs e, ToolStripItemEventType met)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mea)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ScrollableControl.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStrip.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.ToolStripDropDown.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.OnMessage(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)

If I start a new character, I am able to select an OH. Error must be tied to my saved character. I guess I will need to start from scratch unless anyone can help me fix my saved character.

Please post your character file in a new issue on the Issue Tracker of the codeplex site.

Done.

Title is "Cant Select Off-Hand Item"

I am an avid user of Rawr...I really appreciate having the tool available to help me plan what I link for in raids.

Just wanted to drop a wall of text post with both a question, and a feature suggestion.

The question I have may be noobish but still...say my current baseline gearset is 1000 DPS and I am at or over the 17% hit cap. Then lets say I get a big weapon upgrade that drops my hit but raises my DPS significantly. Even after trying to close the hit gap with trinkets, gems, etc, I am still below the hit cap at 15% say, but my DPS is now 1050 say.

Basically is 1000 DPS at 17% hit > 1050 DPS at 15%? Just using round numbers not to scale on the deltas.
If Rawr is telling me my overall DPS is higher, but I am not hit capped, should I ignore Rawr in that case?

The feature suggestion that I have is building in the ability to filter gear based on raid content.
I would LOVE to have a checkbox that would filter out TOC 25man heroic loot, or Ulduar 25man heroic loot.
That way when the loot drops I can just click and see what is a good upgrade, and not visually filter heroic items.
My game plan since I have been using it is to prep ahead of the raid...this feature would save a lot of time.

Along the same vein it would be nice if faction specific loot could be filtered...thinking of TOC of course.

Thanks in advance for answers to my question, and for reading my feature suggestion.

Elrohir

The newest version already filters out faction specific, for all items that are tagged as such on wowhead. There is also already a checkbox to filter out specific raids. Click filter on the top of the right hand comparison window. From there you can uncheck the instance you dont want to see the gear from.

If Rawr says dropping below hit cap is higher DPS, then it's higher DPS. There isn't an implied "if you were hit capped you'd be doing this much DPS" at the end of that. Obviously hit is very important, but it's not a magical Jesus stat. If you're going from a horrible quest reward green to a hard mode Colosseum drop with 500 more spell power, 2% more crit and haste but 1% less hit, that's still going to be a net DPS increase.

The only other factor is "random numbers are random". If you're not capped, all the stars could align causing you to miss 20 straight spells and do shit damage. Or make you restack scorch because you missed with 2 seconds left and it fell off. At that point it's up to you to decide whether 50 more DPS on average is worth the rare but possible chance of getting boned by the RNG. If you're only 1-2% away from the cap, you can fix it easily enough with a couple [Veiled Ametrine].

I thought so even though most people treat spell hit like it is a magical jesus stat.
My example was going from T7.5 gloves to iLevel 245 gloves so yeah makes sense.

My understanding was as you describe...just increasing or decreasing your changes of getting hosed by RNG for a miss.
Until last night I had a set maxed for DPS around the one billion hit on the Intensity staff...that is a lot to overcome.

Thanks.

Elro

And those guilds would be idiots who do not understand how the game works. It is extremely likely that players who know what they are doing with their gear and who are able to use RAWR will nto be hitcapped. I don't think you understand the above comments, because you are doing exactly what folks are saying - treating hit rating as a magical jesus stat when it really, really isn't.

Hit rating before the cap is good, and it is very good value for increasing your dps, and often the best way to increase your dps. It is not by any means a stat you absolutely have to have capped, and it's often preferable to run below the hit cap thanks to the way hit is budgeted on items, and the tradeoffs for other stats.

Use RAWR, and use your brain when looking for gear. Never assume being hit capped is the best option. Hit rating is just another stat, it doesn't have magical powers, and you are doing people a huge disservice by saying they have to be hitcapped like you are doing.

If the options are being 2 hit below hit cap and gaining 9 spell power vs. using a veiled and being capped but wasting 8 hit, under most gear options the former is the better choice. Hit cap is not something special.

For mages I actually completely disagree with this. For your personal DPS, you're absolutely correct, but in many raids, mages are responsible for keeping up a Scorch stack. Even though it is not very likely that you will miss if you are just a few points below the cap, if you do, you will lose a large chunk of Raid DPS while you have to stack it back up in the middle of the fight.

On the flip side, if you're a mage who knows that you're slightly under the hit cap, so you start scorching a little bit earlier so that in case you miss you have the time to get a 2nd scorch in to keep the stack.... You're now over-scorching and losing more DPS by doing that than you gained through the 9 SP or whatever you gained.


So if you're not keeping up scorch due to locks having Imp SB, then absolutely, hit is just another stat and there is no imperative to cap it. However, if you are responsible for the scorch stack, then I very highly suggest capping your hit, even if you're "wasting" 1-8 hit rating.


Very rarely will you succeed in your boss attempt because you personally had 5-15 more DPS. But there certainly are circumstances, on a tightly tuned fight, where the scorch stack dropping will impact rDPS enough that you just miss the hard enrage.

Imagine a fight that lasts for 5 minutes, that's 300 seconds, or 100 fireballs (for the point of the thought experiment we'll ignore everything else). With a 1% miss rate you'd expect to lose one spell during that fight, for a 1% DPS loss. Sometimes you'd miss none, sometimes two, etc, but it would average out to 1% lost.


Now imagine a fight that lasts for 3 minutes, that's 180 seconds, or 60 fireballs. Consider the DPS loss of 1 spell missing in that situation, 1/60 > 1/100, each spell is more important to your average as the fight grows shorter. Extended over many fights you'd average out to the same 1% loss that you observed in a 5 minute fight, but the impact on a 3 minute fight that gets unlucky could mean you underproduce.

Now consider instead of just fireballs, you're also casting HS pyros and LBs, which if they miss are a bigger hit to your DPS than just a fireball. So if you cast 100 spells in the fight, 10 of them being LBs, if you miss one of those LBs it will be a greater than 1% loss for that particular fight.

That's what the concept of hit capping is all about, removing the potential to under perform. The same as increasing your crit is increasing your potential to over perform.

All that said, 1000 spell power vs 1% hit, take the damn spell power. But when it comes down to gemming the last few slots up, hit capping is never a bad idea. There are certain qualitative considerations that are difficult to manage in the quantitative world of theorycrafting if all you live by is the average DPS number, this is one of them.

The question isn't if hit capping is good. Obviously it is. But it is not always optimal. If you are hit capping just for the sake of hit capping, sometimes you will be doing so at the cost of some personal dps. Missing occasionally is not the end of the world, when it is made up elsewhere. That is all we are saying. You shouldn't be "laughed out of a raid" if math and computers are on your side.

Hit is not a magical Jesus stat.

If you are more concerned about keeping up a scorch stack for the benefit of raid dps, hit capping when it isn't optimal would just be another way of sacrificing your already compromised personal dps. I believe RAWR is only concerned about your personal dps, scorch duty or not.

Korey, there is a difference between "Jesus Stat" and "Qualitative difference not handled by average DPS calculations".

Imagine you are in an encounter that requires at least X health, your existing raid gear gets you to within two SP/Stam gems of that limit. So, you swap your SP/Spi gems out to meet the requirement, even though it is a DPS loss to do so. Why? to use an old Molten Core adage, dead mages do no damage. Or, you can focus on the average DPS number, and hope that you get the low end of the damage randomizer when the effect requiring X health happens.

Imagine now you are in an encounter where mana regeneration is key, you find yourself consistently just short of being able to maintain DPS through the fight. You have a blue slot in your equipment that you've been gemming straight SP into, but that has a socket bonus of 5 spirit. You gem a SP/Spi gem into it and that pushes you just over the cusp of being able to maintain your mana for the fight. Or, you stick with the straight SP gem because your average DPS number is higher with it.

Somewhere between these two ridiculous examples of qualitative vs quantitative is the situation at hand, hit.

This argument between individuals focusing on the average DPS number and individuals seeking to not miss is silly. If you aren't bothered by a miss every so often, follow the hardline average DPS guidance of the TC tools. If you are bothered by it, then maintain hit cap.

Neither is the absolute right answer since it's entirely based on your personal preference. Your super averaged out average DPS number is no more the "Jesus Value" than hit is the "Jesus Stat".