I have 2 Workarounds:
1. You can add the difference to each staff and then disable the staff enchant.
2. You disable the staff enchant, look at the value of Spellpower and keep that in mind when checking the dps-difference in the comparison window.

1. To much work
2. The Way I`m doing it at the Moment (i choose no enchant and calculate 38 dps to a Staff)

I don't know if this has been brought up before but thought I'd mention it. I seemed to be having issue with the upgrade list function in rawr concerning the ashen verdict rep rings. It seems to ultimately boil down to the finger slot the ring was in, but I'll try to describe what I saw as concisely as possible.

In Finger1 slot I have the Band of the Invoker equipped. In Finger2 slot I have the Ashen Band of Greater Destruction equipped. If I right click on any of the higher valued rings of the same flavor, i.e. the Ashen Band of Unmatched Destruction, and select the "Evaluate Upgrade" option the result comes back with a blank window (i.e. not an upgrade). If I select "Build Upgrade List" option from the Optimizer and let it run, none of the "Destruction" line of rings appears in the list. Conversely, if I mark a higher ring as available, again choosing the Ashen Band of Unmatched Destruction, in the equipment list and run the "Optimize" option from the Optimizer, the optimization results will recommend the higher end ring.

Now the flip side. If I switch the rings in the equipped slots making Finger1 the Ashen Band of Greater Destruction and Finger2 the Band of the Invoker, upgrades et. all work fine. Right clicking on the higher Ashen Band of Unmatched Destruction and selecting "Evaluate Upgrade" returns an upgrade score. Likewise, running the "Build Upgrade List" with this configuration will now include the other "Destruction" line rings in the results list.

I hope that is easy enough to follow to understand the behavior I'm seeing. Just wanted to pass this on because it seems like the tool may not be properly evaluating the rings depending on what slot they are in.

At the moment Rawr slightly undervalues [Dislodged Foreign Object] (and the heroic version) for fire, it seems there are more events that can trigger it than it was previously believed.

The following events also count as spell cast:
* Application/Refresh of the Pyroblast dot
* Application/Refresh of Ignite
* Application of Living Bomb (casting LB counts as two spell casts, once for the actual cast the second for "X is afflicted by")
* Gaining Clearcasting

Information gathered from parsing various WoL reports.

Maje do you think it is undervalued in your Gear Setup or in BIS Fire Setup?

Because in BIS Gear i recognized that the Haste Value is going down, Crit is shooting into the Sky`s, and Spell Power went infront of Spell Haste.

So that also means in BIS Gear Spyglass is getting better and better, and also Reign is not that bad anymore because Spell Power has a higher Rating Value as Haste.

I also tried changing DFO from "Damaging Spell Hit" to "Damage Spell Cast" to Spell Hit/Spell Cast" and and it only went up by 1 DPS. This was a little bit strange in my Opinion.

You misunderstand my meaning, the undervaluation is not due to scaling of specific stats, but rather due to the fact that not all possible events count as a trigger for the proc. Which means a lower chance for it to proc. -> lower uptime.

So to your question, no, it doesn't mean any other trinket is over/under valued and especially not due to hand waving about crit, haste or spellpower scaling.

Do you think those apply to all effects that trigger on harmful spells? How exactly did you factor out the delays between trigger and buff proc in attributing what caused the proc? It might be worth it to start a new thread dedicated to knowledge about what counts as a trigger for various effects that we know about.

Kavan, I am trying to reconcile stat weights between magegraf and rawr. Can you tell me what the values under Hot Streak utilization mean specifically, and how you calculate them?

Hot Streak Utilization was added for the purpose when they made hot streak proc from living bomb ticks. Since they retracted that change it's not really that useful. There are two fire cycle models in Rawr. One is used for all comparison calculations and uses a mainly precomputed approximation model for performance reasons that assumes all hot streak procs can be utilized. For that patch I introduced a parameter that allowed to enter hot streak utilization to modify that assumption. Another model is used in cycle anlyzer, that one uses a full blown markov model with all hot streak interaction modeled. What Hot Streak Utilization does is compute spell breakdown for both approximation model and the markov model and displays the ratio of Fireball to Pyroblast number of casts for both of them. This was then used to modify the hot streak utilization parameter in the approximation model so that both ratios matched.

The interesting part about DFO proc. is that it procs at the same time as the event that fired it, I won't go on the lim and say it behaves this way in 100% of the cases but that's what I've noticed whilst checking the logs. I'm not sure why it behaves this way but it seems to be related to what triggers it, ie. as if it didn't wait for a confirmation from the server.

Phylactery and Reign however have a delay between the event and the proc. so they are different, both require a 'damage' event to happen for them to proc while DFO requires a 'cast' though what constitutes a cast in this case is a mish mash of auras and other procs.

please delete.

Rawr also has the value of [Phylactery of the Nameless Lich] on a 90second internal cooldown, the ICD is in fact 100seconds.

I tested this by putting LB's on all the dummies and throwing pyroblasts on them whenever I could. At each proc I would have had at least 10 different dots going including ignites and I got these intervals

101 seconds
101 seconds
103 seconds
100 seconds
102 seconds

Hope this helps Sadly tho this reduces its effectiveness by ~120 dps putting the normal version below 264 muradins for the moment *cries*, luckily its getting buffed next patch

You're looking at individual cycles. That's not something you should be using for gear comparison, because they change. You want to look at your overall DPS, which is also what it compares by in the comparisons pane.

Just for clarification, can you explain that more? That cycle is the core of the arcane mage rotation. I'm not sure why I wouldn't want to optimize for that specific cycle.

Another weird thing in the mix now too...playing around further, I had reign of the dead and talisman equipped. Rawr shows dps drop of 165 dps to equip the Abyssal Rune, however, that specific cast cycle shows a dps increase of 237 dps with reign and abyssal over reign and talisman.

I may be misunderstanding the purpose of this metric based on the prior post, but by the way the numbers are looking, it looks like I should equip reign and abyssal. I guess if it could be clarified why arcane mages wouldn't want to optimize this cycle, or if they actually do, how to do it...

The cycle is just that; that cycle. Nothing more. It doesn't consider mana. It doesn't consider cooldowns. It doesn't consider special effects. It doesn't consider anything, beyond the single cycle. That's not what you care about, DPS is.

To add some additional info...I went to the training dummy, took off my main hand (to try to minimize the proc of black magic) and dpsed with talisman/reign vs. talisman/abyssal..... talisman/abyssal outperformed over the course of a complete mana cycle every time...by around 250-500 dps.... I'd really like to know how to optimize my gear based on that cycle just to test out more and get a better estimate of the gear I need for upgrades...is that even possible?

I'm really not trying to be argumentative either, I'm still learning, but when I hover over that cycle, it shows me all kinds of calculations, like MPS, TPS, cast procs/sec, dps per spell power, damage procs/sec, dots/sec, etc. for that specific cycle. It looks like those calculations are in there.

I guess I'll just throw this out and let it drop then. I know what you're saying about raid buffs changing things, but that's the best test I could set up on short notice and the differences were VERY significant over a full pool of mana...apples to apples...I thought worth more than a passing glance. Also, I would assume that most arcane mages fights consist of just that cycle over and over and over, and if there's something that boosts the cycle by 500 dps, why wouldn't I look into it at least to test? I'm assuming from your comments that there is no way to set up RAWR to find the highest number for that cycle...just thought that would be interesting to test out. I'll keep reading and trying to learn...I appreciate having a tool like this, and am just trying to figure it out more. Thanks!

Unless I'm mistaken, the cycle DPS assumes you are only casting those spells, without using any cooldowns. So only the additional intellect of [Talisman of Resurgence] counts, while the DPS value also includes its use-effect.

I just downloaded the new version of Rawr and i noticed a difference of around 2600 dps to the previous verison. Now its something around 8600 and I dont know why.

And why does it suddenly value SP much higher (suggesting me to use the Dragoneye SP Gems) then before (suggesting me to use the Dragoneye Hast Gems).

Thanky You

First of all, thank you for the amazing program. It's been used to settle many theorycrafting debates between my friends and I.

For the purposes that I use Rawr, everything seems to work perfectly, although I did notice something that raised a question. When I go to compare "Current Gear/Enchants/Buffs" it is showing me that Potion of Speed accounts for 0.00 DPS. Can anyone explain why this is?

I apologize if I overlooked something incredibly simple.

Mage module currently doesn't use the potions from the Buffs tab since it's using a different semantic (consider using this potion vs use this potion) which is why the value in that chart is zero.

Is there a way to change glyphs manually in the program? Looking to change the fireball one to the 3.3.3 version.