Rawr.Mage - Page 49

Korey · 08/24/09, 6:20 AM

Originally Posted by Kavan

It's possible to model it (at least approximately), I'll try to get something in.

Similar if people find some other effects missing just bring it up, chances are good that I just haven't seen the effect yet and so haven't implemented it.

Hey Kavan, I believe that some trinkets are modeled slightly wrong in the current version of Rawr. There was some discussion on how to manually model [Abyssal Rune] over at http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t30655-w...8/#post1352496.

Trinkets such as [Sundial of the Exiled], [Abyssal Rune], and [Flare of the Heavens] in Rawr are by default triggered by "DamageSpellHit" when they should be triggered by "DamageSpellCast." I just did some tests on dummies and you can proc Sundial even when you miss.

Hinalover · 08/24/09, 1:12 PM

Originally Posted by Korey

Hey Kavan, I believe that some trinkets are modeled slightly wrong in the current version of Rawr. There was some discussion on how to manually model [Abyssal Rune] over at http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t30655-w...8/#post1352496.

Trinkets such as [Sundial of the Exiled], [Abyssal Rune], and [Flare of the Heavens] in Rawr are by default triggered by "DamageSpellHit" when they should be triggered by "DamageSpellCast." I just did some tests on dummies and you can proc Sundial even when you miss.

Yea I can see where to easily fix the Sundial and Flare changes. It's in the SpecialEffects.cs file

else if ((match = Regex.Match(line, @"Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by (?<spellPower>\d+) for (?<duration>\d+) sec.")).Success)
            {
                int spellPower = int.Parse(match.Groups["spellPower"].Value);
                // Sundial of the Exiled (NOT FOR HEALERS) / Flare of the Heavens
                stats.SpellPowerFor10SecOnHit_10_45 += spellPower;
                stats.AddSpecialEffect(new SpecialEffect(Trigger.DamageSpellHit, new Stats() { SpellPower = spellPower }, int.Parse(match.Groups["duration"].Value), 45, 0.1f));
            }

Maje · 08/24/09, 6:24 PM

Truth be told there shouldn't be much difference if at all, unless you're undercapped and even then the reduction in trinket strength is the least of your worries.

jaxdahl · 08/24/09, 7:42 PM

Originally Posted by Korey

Trinkets such as [Sundial of the Exiled], [Abyssal Rune], and [Flare of the Heavens] in Rawr are by default triggered by "DamageSpellHit" when they should be triggered by "DamageSpellCast." I just did some tests on dummies and you can proc Sundial even when you miss.

Be careful with the testing you do. Use something like Arcane Explosion away from a dummy to see if the trinket procs off purely casting a spell. Stand as far away from the dummy and cast fireball or frostfire bolt to see if the trinket procs when you cast it or when it lands on the dummy. Wear zero hit gear and cast on a boss level dummy to see if misses can still proc it. Abyssal Rune does NOT proc off casts, it procced when the fireball landed on the dummy. I did not have enough time to see if it procced off misses.

Korey · 08/24/09, 11:17 PM

Originally Posted by jaxdahl

Be careful with the testing you do. Use something like Arcane Explosion away from a dummy to see if the trinket procs off purely casting a spell. Stand as far away from the dummy and cast fireball or frostfire bolt to see if the trinket procs when you cast it or when it lands on the dummy. Wear zero hit gear and cast on a boss level dummy to see if misses can still proc it. Abyssal Rune does NOT proc off casts, it procced when the fireball landed on the dummy. I did not have enough time to see if it procced off misses.

Thank you for the testing tips. I did some more testing...and things are now slightly more complicated.

You'll notice that [Sundial of the Exiled] and [Abyssal Rune] are worded differently even though everyone assumes they are the same thing.

Summary:

[Sundial of the Exiled] procs immediately on cast
[Abyssal Rune] procs after the spell hits, and (apparently) will not proc on misses

Tests:

Arcane Explosion away from any targets: only Sundial procs.
Travel time test (Ice Lance): Sundial always procs immediately while the spell is in the air (http://i29.tinypic.com/kbahhs.jpg), Abyssal Rune always procs after the spell hits. A sample combat log where both trinkets proc off the same spell looks like this: http://i26.tinypic.com/2igj80y.jpg
Miss test: After a few hundred ice lances, Sundial did proc before a miss (http://i32.tinypic.com/2hmdjwi.jpg). Abyssal Rune never procced on a miss.

Tipsey · 08/24/09, 11:41 PM

I was just playing around in Rawr and noticed some odd behviour with something there.

I was looking at the DPS value of chest enchants in relation to 1/2/3 points Student of the Mind.

With the BiS gear setup it went something like

1 point SotM: 15 spirit = 20.81 (876 total spirit)
2 points SoTM: 15 spirit = 23.43 (902 total spirit)
3 points SoTM: 15 spirit = 23.45 (927 total spirit)

I find it very odd that the same 3% increase in total spirit would have such a large discrepancy in DPS gains.

Astrylian · 08/25/09, 12:00 AM

Why? Easy explanation. You can use the mana from the first 2 points worth of spirit, but only the (miniscule) crit from the 3rd.

Hinalover · 08/25/09, 12:54 AM

Well, Kaven has changed the procs for the two trinkets in Change Set 36255. So it will be up in the next build.

Tipsey · 08/25/09, 12:57 AM

I don't think that is the reason at all actually.

After playing around with it some more I noticed that switching out a spirit item for a non-spirit item reversed the order in which rawr showed a big gain from points in SoTM.

1 point SotM: 15 spirit = 20.76 (811 total spirit)
2 points SoTM: 15 spirit = 20.84 (835 total spirit)
3 points SoTM: 15 spirit = 24.70 (858 total spirit)

After some more observation the behaviour seems to be that the dps gain is being attributed to gain an entire new percent of crit. The corresponding numbers Rawr listed for crit overall were:

First Setup Second Setup
1 point SotM: 62.74% 62.61%
2 points SoTM: 63.13% 62.98%
3 points SoTM: 63.52% 63.33%

Astrylian · 08/25/09, 1:09 AM

Originally Posted by Tipsey

I don't think that is the reason at all actually.

After playing around with it some more I noticed that switching out a spirit item for a non-spirit item reversed the order in which rawr showed a big gain from points in SoTM.

1 point SotM: 15 spirit = 20.76 (811 total spirit)
2 points SoTM: 15 spirit = 20.84 (835 total spirit)
3 points SoTM: 15 spirit = 24.70 (858 total spirit)

After some more observation the behaviour seems to be that the dps gain is being attributed to gain an entire new percent of crit. The corresponding numbers Rawr listed for crit overall were:

First Setup Second Setup
1 point SotM: 62.74% 62.61%
2 points SoTM: 63.13% 62.98%
3 points SoTM: 63.52% 63.33%

I don't see a whole % difference in any of those %s you listed. Regardless, keep in mind that:
A) See the warning on the Relative Stat Values chart. It isn't joking. Really. No, really. We mean it.
B) % multipliers to stats interact in somewhat unexpected ways. Each point of SotM provides different %s of Spirit. You get a % multiplier from race, and/or buffs, which rounds somewhat oddly sometimes.

Kavan has done extensive work to get the stat multipliers/rounding to get it exactly right on. If you have actual data to show that it's not working correctly, we'd love to hear it.

Tipsey · 08/25/09, 2:10 AM

I'm sorry if you thought I was saying it was working incorrectly.

What I meant by "the dps gain is being attributed to gain an entire new percent of crit", is that the gain was only noticeable when the actual crit rate moved from 62.xx to 63.xx.

Which lead me to believe that the Chest enchant thinks that it is the entire reason that the crit percentage changed.

Dulahey · 08/26/09, 10:52 PM

Is there an easy explanation or link someone can give me to update rawr to the newest version? (3.2.2 on PTR)

Astrylian · 08/26/09, 10:57 PM

Just wait for the next release of Rawr, should be in a few days.

(You could also compile it yourself from source, but that's not for the average user)

Dulahey · 08/26/09, 11:01 PM

Okay, I didn't know compiling was involved. I'll just wait. Thanks for response.

Drakonikamage · 08/28/09, 11:26 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Just wait for the next release of Rawr, should be in a few days.

(You could also compile it yourself from source, but that's not for the average user)

do you give us the full code of a new program or do you give us a patch with which we have to alter the code of the original program? (if i have it totally wrong and proove my noobishness pls don`t be to hard on me for that

)