Rawr.Mage - Page 55

♦ nathanbp · 09/23/09, 3:07 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Things changed in 3.2.2. Check the filters as well. If you still have an issue, we have to see your character file.

It appears to be a filter issue of some kind. The non-heroic Belt/Cord of the Biting Cold are not showing up for me unless the ALL filter is checked. The heroic versions show up fine, however. Mortalis/Blade of the Unbroken Covenant are also not showing up unless ALL is checked.

Peacemaker7 · 09/23/09, 5:49 PM

I am an Arcane mage in 3.2.2 with Engineering as a profession. Rawr 2.2.19 optimizes my enchants and selects the Hyperspeed Accelerators for my gloves.

However, even with "Options, Advanced, Reconstruct Sequence" selected, and performing an optimize, when I view the "Sequence Reconstruction", there is no colored legend entry for the Hyperspeed accelerators. I can see Icy Veins, Arcane Power, Potion of Speed, Heroism, and Talisman of Resurgence (the new Emblem Trinket), and others.

Hyperspeed Accelerators and the Talisman of Resurgence share a burst CD so they cannot be stacked. Which is better to stack with IV+AP+Heroism, hyperspeed or talisman?

Can this data be obtained from rawr, or is this a bug?

Thank you Kavan.

EDIT: Due to my current location, I manually recreated my character's gear and enchants, and did not download the character from the armory. May or may not be relevant.

Kavan · 09/23/09, 6:00 PM

This is currently not supported. The Hyperspeed Accelerators is treated in the same way as proc effects in that it is averaged, so the cooldown stacking benefits cannot be calculated. It would be possible to add support for this, but it is not high on my priority list.

yolan · 09/23/09, 10:19 PM

I am using Rawr 2.2.19 (arcane mage) and [Reign of the Unliving] is listed below [Sundial of the Exiled] and [Embrace of the Spider].

I'm almost sure it is a bug, but there is always a doubt :P

ginok · 09/23/09, 10:44 PM

are there any options I can disable so that I can actually open the arcane cycles window without rawr freezing?

Kavan · 09/23/09, 11:14 PM

For Reign of the Unliving I think the parsing must have broken and it doesn't have the proc listed. I'll check that out.

Arcane Cycles is not actually freezing, it just takes a really long time to compute.

Sancus · 09/24/09, 1:25 AM

Originally Posted by Kavan

Arcane Cycles is not actually freezing, it just takes a really long time to compute.

Rawr UI has always been pretty bad in terms of its interaction with the Arcane model. Fact of the matter is, the model has always been slow for me unless I use no advanced constraints, and enable all optimizations, but that hurts accuracy noticeably.

Rawr likes to recalculate very frequently with no UI response or display to tell you that it's in the process of calculating dps, and that there is no real way to alter any option without it immediately attempting to recalculate(this is particularly annoying when you set too many constraints, and the program is practically frozen for several minutes and you want to reduce the constraints so that you can do something -- at this point you pretty much just have to End Task it).

It would be nice if there were progress bars, and the option to only recalculate dps after several gear changes/options have been made. None of this is an issue usually when you are using the Fire model, because it is so much faster.

I realize that Rawr was designed this way to begin and that it might be really difficult to make changes of this sort, but I thought I would mention it as it is a very common problem for me when trying to do gear optimization for Arcane specs.

Kavan · 09/24/09, 4:32 AM

Actually if you're only using advanced constraints for display it'll do the calculations in background and it should be completely responsive while you wait for it to finish and you can make several option changes without having to wait.

And yea for optimal cycles those used to be almost instantaneous but now with 4 stacks AB and 4T8 the state space got complex enough that that's no longer the case, so I definitely see why you would want a progress bar. It's just a question of balancing where it is better to spend time on improvements.

Juravieal · 09/24/09, 11:07 AM

Does rawr calculate racials such as troll berserking correctly? Its not something Ive paid attention to before, but with the race change feature coming up, Im considering changing to something other than undead. I would think undead -> troll would be a dps increase, albeit a slight one, with racials. However its actually being shown as about a 8 dps loss.

Is the tiny stat difference (3 int 5 spt) the reason for this?

Peacemaker7 · 09/24/09, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Kavan

This is currently not supported. The Hyperspeed Accelerators is treated in the same way as proc effects in that it is averaged, so the cooldown stacking benefits cannot be calculated. It would be possible to add support for this, but it is not high on my priority list.

Bummer. So after some theorycrafting (/sigh), and target dummy testing (/gack), I have settled on the following use of CDs:

IV - 2.5min CD
Talisman of Resurgence - 2.0min CD
AP - 1.4min CD
Hyperspeed Accelerators - 1.0min CD

Based on CDs, I pop IV+Talisman together each time IV comes up. I pop AP+Hyperspeed together each time AP comes up. It's easy to manage, and does a good job of stacking a +damage buff with a +haste buff.

As an opener, I wait for 3 stacks of the AB debuff with a MB proc active, then I pop IV+Talisman+AP followed by Hyperspeed when available. This stacks both damage buffs with one haste buff, and it gets applied starting with the 4th AB followed by MBAM. I wonder however, if it would be better to pop IV+AP+Hyperspeed followed by Talisman when available for the opener...

Kavan · 09/24/09, 4:22 PM

Originally Posted by Juravieal

Does rawr calculate racials such as troll berserking correctly? Its not something Ive paid attention to before, but with the race change feature coming up, Im considering changing to something other than undead. I would think undead -> troll would be a dps increase, albeit a slight one, with racials. However its actually being shown as about a 8 dps loss.

Is the tiny stat difference (3 int 5 spt) the reason for this?

This is another thing that's not modeled currently. It's been on todo list for awhile but never got around to it. I'll see what I can do.

Devilspit · 09/25/09, 12:07 AM

Originally Posted by Juravieal

Does rawr calculate racials such as troll berserking correctly? Its not something Ive paid attention to before, but with the race change feature coming up, Im considering changing to something other than undead. I would think undead -> troll would be a dps increase, albeit a slight one, with racials. However its actually being shown as about a 8 dps loss.

Is the tiny stat difference (3 int 5 spt) the reason for this?

I think blood elf will actually be a better way to go personally since the racial scales with mana pool and therefore gear and not to mention its on a shorter cooldown than berserkering.

Roywyn · 09/25/09, 5:50 AM

Originally Posted by Devilspit

I think blood elf will actually be a better way to go personally since the racial scales with mana pool and therefore gear and not to mention its on a shorter cooldown than berserkering.

With 25k Mana, Arcane Torrent is 62 MP5 averaged.

Now let's see what a beast Berserking is. Mages have 20% and more Haste from Haste Rating these days. Another 20% Berserking Haste Multilpier brings you up another 24% to 44% Haste before the other Multipliers (120%*120%=144%). Another 24% Haste then is around 800 Haste Rating for 10 Seconds every 2 Minutes.

Averaging that with Napkin Math (TM) gives 67 Haste Rating on average. You'll get a good chunk more out of it by pulling some insane Trinket/Glove/Heroism/AP/IV cooldown stacking stunts.

For Arcane, 62 MP5 ~ 30 DPS while 66 Haste ~ 100 DPS and more even without cooldown stacking.

Hinalover · 09/25/09, 5:46 PM

Originally Posted by Shaitans

I've noticed a couple of defects in the rawr.mage modeling for Arcane.

First off, the level 258 version of Reign of the Dead is rated almost 300 dps below the level 245 version. This makes very little sense, but I presume that both versions of the trinket are still the BiS for Arcane mages as well?

Secondly, the Onyxia25 Netherwind Crown does not have the socket bonus in rawr that it does in the game (+9 sp).

If there is a socket bonus issue then it's most likely how wowhead and the armory distribute their information, not something that is a problem with RAWR. All you have to do is right click the cloak; click edit and add in the socket information.

Duravi · 09/25/09, 7:59 PM

First off, the level 258 version of Reign of the Dead is rated almost 300 dps below the level 245 version. This makes very little sense, but I presume that both versions of the trinket are still the BiS for Arcane mages as well?

The 245 Reign of the Dead is the only reign trinket on the list that is using the proc at the moment which is what the problem is. It was fine last version (.18) but for some reason it is messed up in this one.