Rawr.Mage - Page 56

SA-Menne · 09/28/09, 8:42 AM

Hey Peacemaker7,

i am having similar issues as engee but use scale of fates. I basically came to a similar start:

- wait for abx3 then pop ap veins trinket
- accelerators
- accelerators +ap

up to here its pretty much ideal id guess, where i struggle though is to see the optimal "cooldown rota" from there on. e.g. Should one wait for everything to become ready? or take the almost one minute loss ( so another use) of accelerators just to align it with ap? While your stacking suggestion is pretty reasonable ( and i end up doing similar) i ahve some heavy doubts about this beeing close to the ideal usage under a pw fight assumption. Its easy for most non pw style fights since they have these burst periods where you are forced to have your cds anyways so the loss of "ideal dps" is expected ( like jaraxxus) or non existent (e.g. twins : line up all cds you got for the 100 stack buff then blow them out of the water with 30k arcane missiles :! or beasts when stunned ...). nevertheless i'd still love to know the ideal stand still and nuke case so some guidance from the tool side would be very much appreciated ( wave kavan).

Kavan · 09/28/09, 3:33 PM

Well I might be inclined to adding more support for cooldown stacking, maybe even for proc effects. But it kind of depends on what this would be used for. If your main interest is in finding best way to stack cooldowns then I think this is doable. If however you want to use this for gear chart comparisons then that is not quite feasible.

The problem is that to compute accurate stacking it's important to use at least cooldown segmentation and some advanced constraints. This is especially so for an effect such as accelerators that has a very short cooldown. If this would be used for comparisons (where you wouldn't usually use advanced constraints) you'd probably get less accurate results with stacking than with averaging.

One obvious way to solve this would be to add some top level constraints that would make the comparison stacking more accurate (i.e. make the constraints more tight so as to prevent overstacking that is not possible). This however has mostly eluded me so far so if anyone has some new ideas to contribute I'd be interested in hearing about it. Absent this one possible solution for this would be to allow specifying per effect whether to use stacking or averaging for each comparisons and display/sequence reconstruction. Any suggestions on how to handle this are welcome.

Skarrd · 09/29/09, 5:05 AM

So I don't want to go ahead and call this a bug off of the two times I've seen it without rebooting rawr or anything, but I've got a saved "best in slot" setup that I mess with occasionally, and I swapped out the reign of the dead 258 trinket for embrace of the spider, and jumped up 100 dps, then the reign trinket was no longer an option for me to select to figure out wtf just happened. The item removing itself from selection also seemed to happen with Mortalis earlier when i was playing with barb of tarasque 258. Dunno if it's actually a problem or just something strange I managed to do with my loaded instance of rawr, since I can't seem to repeat it reliably. I figured I'd post about it anyway, though. Seems like since i went up dps (and moreso when I swapped in flare of the heavens for embrace) that it may not be calculating the 258 trinket as even being there, but that's pure speculation. If it weren't 5 am I'd probably be able to provide a more detailed analysis, but there it is.

Update- 258 RotD trinket doesn't have the pillar proc listed, and is way way down on the trinket dps list because of it. I'm using rawr 2.2.19. Still no idea where Mortalis has gone, but it's not like I'm ever getting one anyway.

Juravieal · 09/29/09, 7:33 PM

There are problems with some of the trinket values in .19. It was stated earlier in the thread due to something about new armory parsing. It is fixed in the .20 version if you can compile your own, otherwise you'll see the changes on the next release you download.

jogjog · 09/30/09, 9:22 AM

hi kavan, could you add something like "target Resilience " in "options"-->"fight" ?

Duravi · 10/01/09, 2:54 PM

In version .19 I can't find Sandals of the Mourning Widow (or the alliance version of it), these were in .18 for some reason they are not included in the item list anymore.

Azolin · 10/01/09, 3:10 PM

Not sure if this is the right thread to post in but,

I need help/advice in regards to a problem(rawr related)

I'm no pro, but i'm under the impression that hit rating, just increases the chance of u hitting your target and that it has a cap.

I've been using rawr for about a month and generally stick to the gears suggested for my optimization choices.

Points to note (my Main Spec - Arcane, Off Spec - Frost)

Arcane is hit capped(210)
Frost is purely for PvE so im not bothering about hit.

Observed this on a few occasions, but am only posting now due to my getting a new item.(Do not want to make a wrong item choice.)

For some reason, rawr is rating my gear setup to do higher dps when its slotted in mostly +sp +hit gems.

This is even when i'm already hit capped even without those gems.

I've tried substituting the +sp +hit gems with the +sp +haste gems on rawr seeing that they add the exact same amount of sp.

But rawr still suggests using the +hit gems and reads the output as giving higher dps. (This is for both my hit capped arcane, and my PvE frost)

Should'nt gearing up haste for arcane or frost, provide a better dps boost as compared to hit, since i'm capped.

Hope someone can explain to me whats wrong.

Kajall · 10/01/09, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Azolin

Not sure if this is the right thread to post in but,

I need help/advice in regards to a problem(rawr related)

I'm no pro, but i'm under the impression that hit rating, just increases the chance of u hitting your target and that it has a cap.

I've been using rawr for about a month and generally stick to the gears suggested for my optimization choices.

Points to note (my Main Spec - Arcane, Off Spec - Frost)

Arcane is hit capped(210)
Frost is purely for PvE so im not bothering about hit.

Observed this on a few occasions, but am only posting now due to my getting a new item.(Do not want to make a wrong item choice.)

For some reason, rawr is rating my gear setup to do higher dps when its slotted in mostly +sp +hit gems.

This is even when i'm already hit capped even without those gems.

I've tried substituting the +sp +hit gems with the +sp +haste gems on rawr seeing that they add the exact same amount of sp.

But rawr still suggests using the +hit gems and reads the output as giving higher dps. (This is for both my hit capped arcane, and my PvE frost)

Should'nt gearing up haste for arcane or frost, provide a better dps boost as compared to hit, since i'm capped.

Hope someone can explain to me whats wrong.

You have to go into the buffs section and make sure that you're selecting that you're getting the Draenei racial hit aura and the 3% hit debuff from Spriest/Moonkin. It's most likely that one of these is not selected and thus RAWR thinks you're under the cap.

Astrylian · 10/01/09, 4:57 PM

For any 'can't find the item' issues, try checking the ALL filter.

Feylna · 10/01/09, 5:48 PM

Originally Posted by Kajall

You have to go into the buffs section and make sure that you're selecting that you're getting the Draenei racial hit aura and the 3% hit debuff from Spriest/Moonkin. It's most likely that one of these is not selected and thus RAWR thinks you're under the cap.

This is correct. You should also make sure that Rawr has the correct talent spec for you. Make sure it has the +hit talents selected.

Kevii · 10/02/09, 7:11 PM

Originally Posted by Feylna

This is correct. You should also make sure that Rawr has the correct talent spec for you. Make sure it has the +hit talents selected.

With the talents + misery the hit cap should be 9%, however even I get the same problem where I have all talents and on top of that unless I have misery checked i am not hit capped with 272 hit

Geglash · 10/03/09, 9:35 AM

Originally Posted by Kevii

With the talents + misery the hit cap should be 9%, however even I get the same problem where I have all talents and on top of that unless I have misery checked i am not hit capped with 272 hit

Hit cap vs. 83/boss tagged mobs is 17%. If you disregard Draenei aura and Misery/imp. Faerie Fire but include 6% hit from talents as arcane you still lack 11% hit. Your 272 hit rating only gives you ~10.37% hit, so RAWR suggesting hit gems is correct.

With the talents + misery the hit cap is 8%, not 9. Draenei aura pushes it down to 7% for alliance mages.

Kevii · 10/03/09, 6:22 PM

Originally Posted by Geglash

Hit cap vs. 83/boss tagged mobs is 17%. If you disregard Draenei aura and Misery/imp. Faerie Fire but include 6% hit from talents as arcane you still lack 11% hit. Your 272 hit rating only gives you ~10.37% hit, so RAWR suggesting hit gems is correct.

With the talents + misery the hit cap is 8%, not 9. Draenei aura pushes it down to 7% for alliance mages.

Oh my error on the math there >_> My bad

Kavan · 10/04/09, 9:19 PM

Originally Posted by Peacemaker7

Bummer. So after some theorycrafting (/sigh), and target dummy testing (/gack), I have settled on the following use of CDs:

IV - 2.5min CD
Talisman of Resurgence - 2.0min CD
AP - 1.4min CD
Hyperspeed Accelerators - 1.0min CD

Based on CDs, I pop IV+Talisman together each time IV comes up. I pop AP+Hyperspeed together each time AP comes up. It's easy to manage, and does a good job of stacking a +damage buff with a +haste buff.

As an opener, I wait for 3 stacks of the AB debuff with a MB proc active, then I pop IV+Talisman+AP followed by Hyperspeed when available. This stacks both damage buffs with one haste buff, and it gets applied starting with the 4th AB followed by MBAM. I wonder however, if it would be better to pop IV+AP+Hyperspeed followed by Talisman when available for the opener...

In next release you'll be able to analyze cooldown stacking for all on use effects. Here's the result for your cooldowns on 3 min fight.

Sequence:
00:00.000: Potion of Speed+Arcane Power+Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam024MBAM (32703 mana)
00:10.340: Mana Gem (29203 mana)
00:10.340: Potion of Speed+Arcane Power+Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam024MBAM (32618 mana)
00:15.000: Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam04MBAM (31042 mana)
00:20.000: Hyperspeed Accelerators+ABSpam04MBAM (29475 mana)
00:32.000: ABSpam04MBAM (26230 mana)
00:47.540: Evocation (22504 mana)
00:50.320: ABSpam04MBAM (32703 mana)
01:14.780: ABSpam024MBAM (26838 mana)
01:24.000: Arcane Power+Hyperspeed Accelerators+ABSpam0234MBAM (24981 mana)
01:36.000: Arcane Power+ABSpam0234MBAM (22263 mana)
01:39.000: ABSpam024MBAM (21665 mana)
01:41.780: ABSpam04MBAM (21106 mana)
02:04.420: ABSpam024MBAM (15678 mana)
02:10.340: Mana Gem (14485 mana)
02:10.340: ABSpam024MBAM (17900 mana)
02:20.000: Heroism+ABSpam04MBAM (15955 mana)
02:24.000: Heroism+Hyperspeed Accelerators+ABSpam04MBAM (14555 mana)
02:36.000: Heroism+ABSpam04MBAM (9885 mana)
02:40.000: Heroism+Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam04MBAM (8485 mana)
02:48.000: Arcane Power+Heroism+Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam024MBAM (4932 mana)

Spell Cycles:
Molten Armor
Evocation: 0.50x (3672.86 mps)
Mana Gem: 2.00x
Potion of Speed+Arcane Power+Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam024MBAM: 15.00 sec (12809.04 dps, 338.41 mps, 9718.47 tps)
ABSpam04MBAM: 62.64 sec (7560.19 dps, 239.77 mps, 5714.50 tps)
Hyperspeed Accelerators+ABSpam04MBAM: 12.00 sec (8177.22 dps, 270.39 mps, 6175.68 tps)
Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam04MBAM: 5.00 sec (10187.79 dps, 313.41 mps, 7738.67 tps)
ABSpam024MBAM: 27.58 sec (7462.58 dps, 201.36 mps, 5637.62 tps)
Arcane Power+Hyperspeed Accelerators+ABSpam0234MBAM: 12.00 sec (9142.06 dps, 226.50 mps, 6899.68 tps)
Arcane Power+ABSpam0234MBAM: 3.00 sec (8455.51 dps, 199.27 mps, 6386.71 tps)
Heroism+ABSpam04MBAM: 8.00 sec (9779.69 dps, 349.96 mps, 7373.79 tps)
Heroism+Hyperspeed Accelerators+ABSpam04MBAM: 12.00 sec (10568.52 dps, 389.16 mps, 7964.12 tps)
Heroism+Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam04MBAM: 8.00 sec (13148.16 dps, 444.15 mps, 9971.38 tps)
Arcane Power+Heroism+Icy Veins+Talisman of Resurgence+ABSpam024MBAM: 12.00 sec (14764.92 dps, 411.02 mps, 11194.19 tps)

Nock · 10/06/09, 10:38 AM

When trying to use Rawr to figure out the best possible AoE damage for Anub'arak HM, I think I got it right, but I'd like to be sure.

I changed the settings under the fight options to have 5 targets with .75 time spent AoEing.
Looking at the spell tab options then to see what my DPS for each spell is, With a standard Blizzard is always blowing away Living Bomb no matter what I do. I'm at work now and don't have the exact numbers in front of me, but it was on the order of around 11.5k DPS for Living Bomb and 14.5k dps for Blizzard using the gear on my armory with a standard FFB spec

Alternatively, I tried out a modified Arcane spec like Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft and was getting 15.5k dps for Blizzard.

Am I reading the numbers correctly, or did I do something horribly wrong?