Rawr.Mage - Page 66

Astrylian · 12/22/09, 4:13 PM

You don't have to mark all the gems, actually. As it says in the documentation, gems in active gemming templates are considered available as well, even if they're not marked available. So only the oddball gems need to be marked available. And I certainly wasn't trying to be rude, just direct.

caeldeth · 12/22/09, 10:26 PM

Hey, I was wondering how I can model the Nibelung proc, 2% chance for 30 sec valk that does roughly 700dps, no CD, can proc multiple times...

As I see so far this staff is modeled without the proc and I am interested to see it.

Enthorn · 12/23/09, 6:49 PM

Nibelung is a 1% proc chance. On a fully debuffed mob, it averages about 1200 damage, with a a 3-6% crit rate. Range seems to be about 950 - 1950 according to a few parses from wowmeter. Wowhead comments indicate it benefits from things like CoE, Scorch debuff, etc. -- it benefits from debuffs, not buffs, basically (much like mirror images).

I took it into SM Cathedral and grouped up a fair number of mobs and spammed Blizzard. I managed to proc 10 Val'Kyrs -- I don't know if they all procced at the same time, doubtful, since each tick can proc it, but there were 10 up at one time. I'm not sure if this is a max or not.

It procs off of damage spell casts, it seems, and it seems to proc whether it does damage or not. It can proc off Molten Armor, but it also seems to proc off of Chill (Ice Armor, Ice Barrier with Shattered Barrier). It even procced off the jet pack on Gunship battle. The tooltip says harmful spells, but I think it has a pretty wide range.

It doesn't seem to proc off the DoT portion of Living Bomb though. I'll have to do more testing though. A few wowhead comments say it averages about 16 casts during its duration. That would give about 19,200 damage at 1200 average. In my own parses, it was averaging about 17,300 damage per proc. I had one proc that had 16 casts and did 17,232 damage. I had another fight where I had two procs. There were a total of 33 casts and 34,748 damage. And lastly, I had a fight with, apparently, 6 procs. There were 100 casts (and 21 misses!), and 96,165 damage, working out to 16,027 average damage between them. On that fight, it was 4.7% of my total damage.

If I was going to add it into Rawr, I would simply give the weapon a 1% chance on damaging spell casts to do 17,000 damage.

Kavan · 12/23/09, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by Enthorn

If I was going to add it into Rawr, I would simply give the weapon a 1% chance on damaging spell casts to do 17,000 damage.

It should be however much damage it would do non-crit on a target without debuffs.

Feylna · 12/24/09, 12:35 AM

Proc on Spell Cast doesn't appear to be working properly with the default settings. After much frustration trying to get Nibelung to model I swapped to on "Spell Hit" as opposed to cast and it modeled properly. While using "Spell Cast" as the proc it wouldn't appear on the weapon as a stat at all.

This applies to "Spell Cast" as well as "Damage Spell Cast"

tommynt · 12/24/09, 3:57 AM

fail post

Astrylian · 12/24/09, 4:55 AM

What makes you think that Rawr thinks you're under hitcap? Mouse over the hit % number on the Stats tab. What does it say for Arcane?

tommynt · 12/24/09, 9:10 AM

What makes you think that Rawr thinks you're under hitcap? Mouse over the hit % number on the Stats tab. What does it say for Arcane?

Spell stats:
Crit rate: 61,24%
Hit rate: 13,32 mouseover: 192 hit rating Arcane: 99,32% (18 hit rating missing to cap)

nevermind my bad - I didnt have heroic presence activated in buff selection - I thought switching own race to Dranei should be enough.

Enthorn · 12/25/09, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by Kavan

It should be however much damage it would do non-crit on a target without debuffs.

Yeah, I was just trying to model it as simple as possible to get by. The average damage is somewhere betwen 1000 and 1200 with CoE up -- figuring about 16,877 damage over 16 casts. So I put it in as 15,000 damage. I'm still trying to get it to model though, using Feylna's suggestion. I'm not sure if it's even worth modeling though (like mirror images).

I've tried setting it to Spell Hit and Damage Spell Hit and it just won't model it. I've tried changing Duration/Cooldown/Stacks to 0 and 1, nothing works. I've even tried changing it to giving like 500 crit, instead of doing 15,000 Holy Damage. It just doesn't seem to want to show up on the weapon.

Feylna · 12/25/09, 1:01 AM

Originally Posted by Enthorn

Yeah, I was just trying to model it as simple as possible to get by. The average damage is somewhere betwen 1000 and 1200 with CoE up -- figuring about 16,877 damage over 16 casts. So I put it in as 15,000 damage. I'm still trying to get it to model though, using Feylna's suggestion. I'm not sure if it's even worth modeling though (like mirror images).

I've tried setting it to Spell Hit and Damage Spell Hit and it just won't model it. I've tried changing Duration/Cooldown/Stacks to 0 and 1, nothing works. I've even tried changing it to giving like 500 crit, instead of doing 15,000 Holy Damage. It just doesn't seem to want to show up on the weapon.

The only way I could get it to show up was with Fire Damage and on Spell Hit or Damage Spell Hit. Obviously Fire Damage will model slightly lower due to resists but it still should give an idea. The 264 version seems to be below the 251 version of the Maghari Chieftain's Staff, for my setup at least.

My exact settings were:
15000 Fire Damage
Trigger: DamageSpellHit
Duration: 0
Cooldown: 0
Chance: 1.00 %
Stacks: 1

As far as whether it is worth modeling or not; considering a significant portion of the items stat budget was given to that proc it seems pertinent. It was stated recently that these proc type items will become more prevalent as they try to prevent simple static number upgrades from tier to tier. So it seems that the ability to model these procs in rawr is going to become very important in the near future.

Enthorn · 12/25/09, 3:46 PM

It seems that increasing the proc chance to 2% is all that is needed to bring it in line with other weapons. Although, at 2%, [Frost Needle] + [Lightbane Focus] is still a better combination, but only by ~10 DPS -- and the damage value of 15,000 is pretty open too. There are many additional factors, such as it being Holy damage, and being able to crit, and being able to miss, and benefitting from debuffs on the target. Basically though, [Nibelung] needs to proc around 5 times during a 5 minute fight for the proc to make up for its loss of crit/haste/hit. This is entirely plausible, but at the same time, I've gone many fights in a row without seeing a single proc. I will definitely try it out though on Onyxia and Anub'arak. It doesn't seem to be worth it on single target fights, even though it's very fun.

Callmeqt · 12/27/09, 10:39 PM

Is there a reason that since the newest release of rawr(2.3.4) the value in spirit has gone up? Recently items with a blue socket were better off matched with a 23sp gem(generally), but now rawr is valuing 12sp+10spirit gems more.

Millamber · 12/28/09, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Callmeqt

Is there a reason that since the newest release of rawr(2.3.4) the value in spirit has gone up? Recently items with a blue socket were better off matched with a 23sp gem(generally), but now rawr is valuing 12sp+10spirit gems more.

I have seen this happen regularly where gems swap between 23 sp and 12 sp/10 spirit gems in blue sockets. The difference is usually very minimal, and is most likely based on your stats with itemization. Rawr may be giving 1 pt. of spirit better allocation if you have lost some spirit, as the bonus you get from 10 spirit and the socket bonus may be slightly better than the 11 spellpower lost.

-Mil

Neos300 · 12/28/09, 4:55 PM

Hi all, was hoping someone might be able to help me figure out where a weird result in RAWR is coming from.

I plugged in my current gear, etc. as I usually do and then started swapping pieces out to see how I would be at if I bought the T10 (251) Gloves and Shoulders. I equip them both and stick a Reckless Ametrine in the shoulders in order to get the 5 spellpower socket bonus. It comes out with a DPS value of 1157.62. With a Runed Cardinal Ruby, the value is 1029.54.

To me that seems like it's a very large gap for just one gem. On my napkin math, using my relative stat values of Spellpower = 1.94 and Haste = 1.98, the shoulders come out to 51.78 dps from the gem with a Reckless and 44.62 with a Runed (mostly due to the socket bonus). Given this barely 7 dps difference, I'm trying to figure out why the 251 shoulders are showing as 120 dps greater with a Reckless than a Runed.

Anyone have any insight? I've updated to the most recent RAWR version already. And yes, I'm looking at the 251 shoulders and not the 264's.

For what it's worth, the 264's aren't showing the same differential. Even weirder is when i equip my current gear, the 251 shoulders show as normal (8 dps separates the two gemmings on the 251 T10 when all T9 is equipped). This leads me to believe it's something with the 2-pc set bonus that's the source. I think it's something weird with the 2-pc bonus on the shoulders as they interact with the gloves because when my T9 is equipped, the T10 251 shoulders with a Reckless Ametrine show up with a normal dps figure on the list compared to the other T10 251 shoulder gemmings. It's only when I gloves does the number get out of whack.

Additionally, to make it even weirder, when I equip full T9 except T10 251 gloves, the shoulder dps result for a Reckless Ametrine is all screwy, but when I equip full T9 except for, say, the T10 head, the shoulders are perfectly normal.

There's something about the interaction between Shoulder and Gloves when the gloves are the only other T10 251 piece equipped specifically that is causing a Reckless Ametrine in the shoulders to give a skewed result.

Here's screenshots of what I'm talking about. Notice the large differential in the Bloodmage Shoulders in the first screenshot (with the T10 251 gloves equipped), but not in the others.

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/s...a300/rawr1.jpg (251 Hands only equipped)
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/s...a300/rawr2.jpg (251 Head and Hands equipped)
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/s...a300/rawr3.jpg (No T10 equipped)
http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/s...a300/rawr4.jpg (251 Head equipped)

The best gemming of the Bloodmage Hood in each screenshot is the Reckless Ametrine, with the Luminous, Potent and Runed Cardinal Ruby next in line, in that order. Notice how in the first screenshot the Reckless Ametrine result is way out of bounds, but in the others it's not. I'm trying to determine why that would be.

All I can think of is that the gloves have all that extra hit, but even overcapped I can't see how that equates to 10 haste being a 120 dps upgrade over 6 spellpower (the difference between a Runed or a Reckless in that socket)

yrolg · 12/28/09, 6:29 PM

mete gem requirement?