Rawr.Mage - Page 66

Maje · 12/14/11, 5:39 AM

There is still something odd going on there, I used 4.3.2, enabled Dark Intent and used the BiS gear to optimize. Rawr chose a haste rating of 2722 which with DI translates into 35.07% i.e. slightly over what's needed for the 4th tick of combustion.

However in 90% of the cases that's actually over the needed amount since 2t13 gives 500 haste rating at the time of combustion, which seems like it isn't taken into account (Cycle level haste procs were enabled).

At that point Rawr suggests a value of 4.19 for crit and 3.02 for haste, however reforging from crit to haste lowers the estimated DPS which is a clear sign of a haste breakpoint, which though I'm at a loss to explain.

EDIT: If I check the Proc Uptime graph, the 10x 50 haste shows an uptime of 0 not sure if it's indicative of something.

EDIT2: Also unrelated to the above Insignia of the Corrupted Mind is on 115s ICD rather than the 100s used by Rawr.

Kavan · 12/14/11, 10:07 PM

There was indeed another more hidden bug related to T13 and combustion. I posted a new download that should fix it. From what I tested under your conditions it's now going for +2 ticks on LB and Pyro. Let me know if you find anything else that doesn't seem right.

Beldia · 12/15/11, 7:43 PM

I am trying to determine if the goblin racial is automatically applied since I am trying to optimize my reforging (kind of low on crit for fire)? Also I think I have seen it mentioned that there is a way to find a stat priority for my gear set in RAWR?

Kavan · 12/15/11, 9:36 PM

Goblin racial is automatically applied, yes. If you need stat priorities you can check the Stat Values->Relative Stat Values chart, but I think the Mage Specific->Stats Graph will give you a better overall picture.

zimzamzoom · 12/16/11, 4:37 PM

Would it be possible to add crit rating to the additional requirements dropdown in the optimizer? Currently it seems the only stat ratings are hit and haste (among many other options). This is in version 4.3.2b.

Perhaps I'm missing something, is there another way to optimize with a specific amount of crit?

Astrylian · 12/16/11, 4:50 PM

Originally Posted by zimzamzoom

Would it be possible to add crit rating to the additional requirements dropdown in the optimizer? Currently it seems the only stat ratings are hit and haste (among many other options). This is in version 4.3.2b.

Perhaps I'm missing something, is there another way to optimize with a specific amount of crit?

Why would you want to?

Kavan · 12/16/11, 6:22 PM

Ok time to dispel some confusion about what Cycle Level Haste Procs does exactly. The way Rawr operates without that is it computes the uptime of each haste proc and averages them for each spell. So for example for T13 it might find that it results in 450 haste on average. Then it computes all spell statistics with that specific averaged haste and finally combines it into cycles.

What Cycle Level Haste Procs mode does is instead it computes spell statistics for each possible combination of haste procs. So for T13 for example it would count both 0 haste and 500 haste, similar for haste trinkets and all combinations of what you have. It will combine these into cycles for each haste proc combination separately. Finally it will compute the uptime of each haste proc combination and average at the end.

This makes a difference specifically for dots, because there haste isn't linear. The way you're getting extra dot ticks is very discrete so if you average at the start you'll just get number of extra ticks at the averaged haste, which isn't necessarily the same as averaging the number of extra ticks at each possible haste proc combination.

I'll also enable this setting by default in next release since most are playing Fire at the moment to give better results by default.

Skorp · 12/18/11, 6:35 PM

question retracted

Turwok · 12/21/11, 6:08 AM

Rawr (4.3.3) is pointing a haste cap for combustion tick at 1340~1360 for me. I set full raid buffs without DI, goblin race. According with this chart the cap should be 1858 (500 haste ahead).

Is it considering that I am using 2pcT13? Which I´m not.

Kavan · 12/21/11, 6:20 AM

What exactly makes you think that it is pointing out a haste cap there? This kind of questions are better suited to be posted as an issue on the codeplex site so that you can also provide your character xml without which it is very hard to know what is going on.

Turwok · 12/21/11, 6:50 AM

I have noticed a jump in combustion damage from ~200k to ~216k when changing from 1340 to 1360 haste rating (replacing a 20int/20crit gem with a 20int/20haste one).

Sorry, I will visit the site to get this along.

Magiamid · 12/24/11, 8:47 PM

hey Kavan!!

can u please add a new Realm to Rawr?
it's the new server called Azralon (US).

i can't load my char 'cause this realm doesn't exist on Rawr.

thanks in advance

peace.

Hinalover · 12/25/11, 2:00 AM

Originally Posted by Magiamid

hey Kavan!!

can u please add a new Realm to Rawr?
it's the new server called Azralon (US).

i can't load my char 'cause this realm doesn't exist on Rawr.

thanks in advance

peace.

I added the server the other day to the source code. It should be available for the next release.

charred · 01/06/12, 9:28 AM

Does rawr currently account for the devaluation of haste when going over the global cap during lust or when titahk procs?
With some of newly recomended hastecaps that go very high, this is an issue that mightve been overlooked?

Kavan · 01/06/12, 5:44 PM

That's taken into account by default (unless you disabled cycle level haste procs, in which case it's still taken into account, just the exact threshold might be a bit inaccurate).

And while hitting the gcd in those conditions would be a soft cap, most of the recommended points are not caps in any sense, but breakpoints or discontinuities. A typical relation between crit and haste looks something like this (not based on any actual data).

charred · 01/07/12, 5:10 PM

Hmm, any idea why Rawr keeps showing Opal is better than Flowform HC w 50int gem init? Seems kinda obvious to me that Flowform is far better than opal.
Kinda having a hard time believing DMCV is superior to Necromanatic focus HC aswell. It's an amazing trinket, but doubt it beats necromantic focus.
Can't see why a potent gem would be better than 50int in Seal of the architect either

Kavan · 01/07/12, 5:42 PM

I'm afraid you'll need to provide some reasoning behind this. Handwaving and obviousness isn't exactly a good argument why something should be one way or another.

One possibility why you might be having problems is if you're relying on the charts exclusively. The gear charts show value of directly replacing one piece of loot without modifying anything else. For example that neck has hit on it that the choker does not, so if you do not modify your other gear around to compensate for this the opal is indeed better. If you use the evaluate upgrade option (which will consider tweaking other gear also) you'll see that the choker is indeed better.

charred · 01/07/12, 7:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kavan

I'm afraid you'll need to provide some reasoning behind this. Handwaving and obviousness isn't exactly a good argument why something should be one way or another.

One possibility why you might be having problems is if you're relying on the charts exclusively. The gear charts show value of directly replacing one piece of loot without modifying anything else. For example that neck has hit on it that the choker does not, so if you do not modify your other gear around to compensate for this the opal is indeed better. If you use the evaluate upgrade option (which will consider tweaking other gear also) you'll see that the choker is indeed better.

I already did evualate & it still doesn't show Flowform as the better item. Can it be some setting that's not set correctly? I havn't really touched much though, pretty much the DL version.
Flowform HC w 50int init equals 316intellect 163haste & 133 mastery.
Opal equals 271int 141 hit & 203 haste
Aka Flowform equals +45int +133mastery -40haste -141hit. Also seems like an easy pick.

As for the gem in the ring, 15int vs 25crit seems kinda of a nobrain choice to me. Out of the 3 issues I'm talking about, this is by far the most obvious one I'd say.

DMCV vs Necro Focus. I realize DMCV was an awesome trinket, but statisticly HC Necromantic outweighs DMCV.
I thought maby due to 4PT13 that DMCV became better again than HC NF, but had the same when I equipped my old T12 gearset again.

Kavan · 01/07/12, 7:38 PM

Well I'm not sure what you're doing either, but you can't look at stat values in a vacuum all the time. If I load your character, with Opal it optimizes to 40788 dps and Choker with epic gem comes to 40792 dps.

The gem thing I'm not sure why it is a nobrain choice. If you look at stat values you have 4.76 for int and 3.02 for crit. By my math that is 71.4 dps for 15 int and 75.5 dps for 25 crit.

Regarding trinkets, DMCV is actually a bit stronger than in current live version, because it's using 1.5x crit multiplier instead of 2x. Also you can reforge mastery on DMCV while mastery proc on Necro you can't change. You'll need to explain a bit more about how you found that Necro is statistically better. We need to see the data.

charred · 01/08/12, 8:26 AM

Originally Posted by Kavan

Well I'm not sure what you're doing either, but you can't look at stat values in a vacuum all the time. If I load your character, with Opal it optimizes to 40788 dps and Choker with epic gem comes to 40792 dps.

The gem thing I'm not sure why it is a nobrain choice. If you look at stat values you have 4.76 for int and 3.02 for crit. By my math that is 71.4 dps for 15 int and 75.5 dps for 25 crit.

Regarding trinkets, DMCV is actually a bit stronger than in current live version, because it's using 1.5x crit multiplier instead of 2x. Also you can reforge mastery on DMCV while mastery proc on Necro you can't change. You'll need to explain a bit more about how you found that Necro is statistically better. We need to see the data.

First of all, thanks for the thorough replies. I really appreciate it & this been really useful to me.

The Opal/Choker gives me the almost the same total dps result. Optimized I get 40668,99 for the opal, 40668,9 for flowform. That was only a quick optimization though. Doing a full one as we speak.

The gem thing was a mistake on my side I found out now. I didn't run my SimC at 10000+ itterations & (as expected I guess) the statvalues we're kinda off.
I ran it at 50k itterations now & now it indeed shows for me that the oj gems are better. (still diff scale factors though 4.6962for int & 2.8386 for crit)

As for DMCV. Do you meant he Live version is currently bugged & does more dmg than intended? Or that SimC's version is bugged and because of that it shows DMCV above Necro Focus. For some reason the DMCV isn't plotted into any reforges either.

One last thing I'm gonna annoy you with, Dragonfire Orb isn't included in this release? I read on the website that it got fixed, but as OH it still only shows my ruthless glad one.

Kavan · 01/08/12, 9:25 AM

Regarding DMCV I meant that rawr is currently showing too low value with 1.5x multiplier instead of 2.0x. The same problem was in simc, but it's already fixed there.

For the off-hand open the filters, go to filters by item type and make sure off-hand/misc is checked. If there is some specific way in which loading a character makes that disabled let me know because it's possible that it's bugged.

Spacedonkey · 02/20/12, 5:34 AM

Rawr is currently telling me 397 VPLC as being higher than 390 WoU for fire and higher than even 403 WoU for arcane. I'm almost certain this is wrong. Do I have something set wrong or is Rawr not accounting for the stacking int properly?

Kavan · 02/20/12, 4:16 PM

I don't see what is wrong with that. For my character in arcane I see 403 WoU about the same as 397 VPLC (WoU about 100 dps higher). Do you have any evidence to support your hunch that this might be wrong?

Spacedonkey · 02/20/12, 5:18 PM

My relative stat values shows int being the highest at 4.88 for fire (next highest stat is SP at 3.54). 390 WoU fully stacked puts it at 780 int which is 322 int over 397 VPLC. Then in arcane, int is 5.66 with SP at 3.27. Rawr puts 397 VPLC above 403 WoU even with a 422 int deficit. I wouldn't think the damage proc from VPLC could make up that big of an int difference. It just seems odd that the spec which values int higher would show VPLC making up for a larger deficit.

Kavan · 02/20/12, 9:50 PM

All I can say is that comparing damage distribution in Rawr with WoL logs the VPLC indeed does as much damage from the damage proc as Rawr is suggesting.