Rawr.Mage - Page 69

Kavan · 01/07/10, 4:40 PM

Originally Posted by Tanaro

I was trying to get the cycle analyzer get me new results for 2pct10 but it took nearly infinite time. I stopped it after 10 hours, with a status 400,000 / 1,870,418,611.

I thought I somehow screwed up my options, and loaded my character again from armory, which is still wearing 4pct9. After the analyzer worked pretty well, I equipped 2pct10 an tried again. It was very slow, like the day before when I tested it.

Is there any possibility to speed this up and get good(optimal) results with 2pct10?

Change the model in the dropdown, the first one just has too big of a state space to make it feasible with 2T10. You'll want to select the last option without ABar most likely.

Originally Posted by Toonie

I've got an issue where the Bloodmage's Regalia 2p bonus seems to be working very oddly.
With a TTW-Fire build the setbonus is showing as 0.00 dps, but when switching to an arcane (or even frost) build, it jumps up to the top where it should be. I'm not changing anything else apart from the specs and the option for Unlimited mana is unchecked.
(Edit: Just found out that the 2p bonus goes from 0 dps to 348 dps when disabling the Maintain Scorch option)

Along with this, Rawr also suddenly started suggesting that I change all my Reckless Ametrine's for Potent ones when I changed to the ilvl 264 Tier-robe yesterday (switched out the Skyweaver robes ilvl 258). The gem-values itself are very close to eachother, but crit suddenly seems to have a slight advantage over haste at the moment.
I'm quite confused about these 2 issues and really can't figure out what causes this behavior.

Yes so far I haven't included 2T10 modeling in all the fire cycles yet. I'll try to put it in eventually.

I'm not sure about the crit vs haste issue, you might just be at a breaking point as you said where both are valued almost the same. That behavior is expected in that case, but shouldn't result in huge change in dps.

Rocketman · 01/07/10, 7:13 PM

I am also ( I think) having an issue with 2pc T10. I am dual specced FB-TTW and FFB. I bought T10 Chest and Shoulders. For FB-TTW is has me equipping Chest and Shoulders for a big dps gain. For FFB it has me equipping just the Chest.

Is 4pc T9.25 that good for FFB over 2pc T10?

Kavan · 01/07/10, 7:44 PM

FFB doesn't have 2T10 modeled yet.

Maje · 01/07/10, 9:02 PM

[Nibelung] got buffed, the average damage the Val'kyres do was insreased by 50% and they no longer miss. Not sure about the proc rate but assuming it stayed the same (1%) it still can't compete with similar ilevel weapons.

EDIT: to clarify I meant 1h + offhand rather than staves, which for the most part spend a lot on a weaker stat (spirit).

beromar · 01/08/10, 3:19 AM

Actually, with the damage buff to Nibelung, rawr is showing it higher than most of the other ICC weapons.

On a target dummy with no debuffs, it was doing an average of 26,000 damage for the duration. When I modeled it at 26,000 damage, it showed up as ~50dps below [Mag'hari Chieftain's Staff].

However, on a target dummy with COE, it was doing an average of 31,000 damage. When I modeled it at 31,000 damage, it showed up as ~30dps higher than the same staff, only losing out to the 277 [Dying Light].

TigaFin · 01/08/10, 8:32 AM

Nibelung is behaving like Bryntroll in that it benefits greatly from talented side-effects on spells. I did a few hours of testing on target dummies, starting with a talent wipe and adding talents one by one. Untalented blizzard didn't seem to proc the Val'kyr at all (it might have had a 1% chance to proc on cast, but I never saw that). Putting 1 point in Winter's Chill gave a 0.3% proc rate per blizzard tick (so each chill had a 1% proc chance). Adding 1 point to improved blizzard adds 1% proc chance. I'm usually seeing a 2.3% proc chance per tick on target dummies, but I don't have a good explanation for the 0.3% (1% is from winter's chill and another 1% is from improved blizzard).

Analyzing data from our Anub25H kill, the number of procs matches a scenario where frostbolt and fireball spell hits have a 1% chance to proc and blizzard ticks have a 2% chance to proc (per target). This encounter and the talent wipe testing were last week, so before the hotfixes. Winter's chill does not seem to increase the chance of frostbolt to proc the staff.

Given that the increased proc rate on Bryntroll for paladins and death knights is now considered a bug, I assume that the increased proc rate on Nibelung will also eventually considered a bug. Right now it is a good weapon for AOE encounters and frost spec, but there's no way to tell where it will end up. If they "fix" the side effect procs, but don't compensate with a proc chance on untalented blizzard, it could end up being totally useless for AOE.

Open questions:

- Does Blizzard want the proc chance to increase linearly with the number of targets that AOE hits? (Possibly not, but this is currently a major part of the fun factor.)
- Does Blizzard want the staff to proc on DOT ticks? (Apparently not, since DOT ticks are reported not to generate procs.)

If the damage contribution is intended to be about 3.5% of overall DPS, a single target proc rate of 1% is not sufficient. 1% chance to proc 31k damage equals 310 damage per cast on average. Using a 2 second per cast average, that's 155 DPS, which is under 2% if the overall DPS is 8000.

These "fun proc" weapons will be much harder to balance for Blizzard than the more boring "stat sticks". However, they add a lot more flavor to the game, so if Blizzard learns how to code these items properly, it should be good for the game. I like the fact that I'm now carrying one weapon for single target use (heroic Tarasque) and another for AOE (Nibelung) and can even switch mid-combat if desired.

robbymo · 01/08/10, 11:31 AM

My modeling shows a 4.1% (387) dps increase with the proc.

Without the proc RAWR shows my dps as 9014. Editing Nibelung to 1% chance on spell hit to do 26,000 holy damage; increases my dps to 9401, still behind Mag'hari but better than anything else on live with my current gear.

gaerthe · 01/08/10, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by beromar

Actually, with the damage buff to Nibelung, rawr is showing it higher than most of the other ICC weapons.

On a target dummy with no debuffs, it was doing an average of 26,000 damage for the duration. When I modeled it at 26,000 damage, it showed up as ~50dps below [Mag'hari Chieftain's Staff].

However, on a target dummy with COE, it was doing an average of 31,000 damage. When I modeled it at 31,000 damage, it showed up as ~30dps higher than the same staff, only losing out to the 277 [Dying Light].

This contradicts what I saw in Rawr regarding the staff and I'm curious what we're doing differently.

I put it in as a 1% chance on hit to do 30k damage. I based this on full raid buffs and assuming the val'kyrs survive to do full dps for their full duration.

I had the staff come out around the same as the 245 ToC25/ToGC10 staves (ie Cold Convergence). This seems lackluster for a staff 1.5 tiers above the others of similar performance.

robbymo · 01/08/10, 11:58 AM

Are you setting it for one stack?

When I enter everything but don't set it at one stack then it doesn't change the dps on the weapon at all.

gaerthe · 01/08/10, 1:31 PM

I used the following settings:

Trigger: Spell Hit
Duration: 0
Cooldown: 0
Chance: 1%
Stacks: 1
30000 Fire damage

Adding the proc changes the weapon DPS from 1140 to 1368, an increase of ~230 dps. This was done being hit capped not using a weapon.

As comparison, these are some of the weapons around it:

Enlightenment (245): 1394
Mag'hari (251): 1393
Cold Convergence (245): 1330

-- Edit

Someone pointed out that it's shows as much better for Arcane spec vs Fire spec (which I'm currently using). This would make sense assuming that each missile in Arcane Missiles can proc the Val'kyr. More events give more chances compared with fire which is a slower cast event spec.

vallkyr · 01/08/10, 2:42 PM

Im fairly certain if you set it like that rawr will think every wave of arcane missiles can proc the valkyr, hence giving it a lot higher dps value than it really has. I couldn't manage a proc from am but the initial cast on dummies so far. I used 30k dmg per proc as well and it doesn't shine as good for fireball than it does for arcane for example.

Also tried it with imp bliz+fbite+wc spamming it on the 6 target dummies in theramore and getting up 5-6 valkyrs at once is really common. Only fight i found it useful was gunship so far where you can rocketjump to a place where rockets dont kill them 5 seconds after they spawn, they tend to fly over the enemy ship tho and get killed in seconds. The staff needs a lot more changes to be close to viable for dd at the moment in my opinion.

Kavan · 01/08/10, 4:02 PM

When you are entering damage for procs you should enter the raw value as if without talents and without buffs/debuffs, otherwise you're double counting them.

Setia · 01/08/10, 5:04 PM

I've found that, in order for the expected damage per hit to be corret, I had to input a proc value below the actual damage a Valkyr might do. The default handling for a "Holy Damage" proc seems to include talents and crit chance. If I want my proc to actually do 30k, I need to input 20,5k as the proc value. Or should I select another type of effect?

There are also a few reports of it proccing from Living Bomb ticks - presumably, only those that crit, as they "cast" an Ignite, although it would be nice if someone could test (I don't have the staff, or I would). Would Fireball also get a double chance at proccing when it crits, and Scorch, a triple (1x Scorch, 1x Improved Scorch, 1x Ignite)?

Kavan · 01/08/10, 5:54 PM

That is correct, you should enter the lower value (and yea I forgot to mention that the value entered should be noncrit; crit, talents and debuffs are all applied on top of what you enter).

gaerthe · 01/08/10, 6:14 PM

Originally Posted by Kavan

That is correct, you should enter the lower value (and yea I forgot to mention that the value entered should be noncrit; crit, talents and debuffs are all applied on top of what you enter).

Good point Kavan. I was being overly optimistic on my estimate of total damage done to try to get an upper bound on how good the staff could be. Reducing the base damage will only make the staff worse in comparison to the other weapons available.

Since my goal with my rough estimate was to verify that I don't want to replace my current weapon, having a rough upper bound still below my current level was all the information I needed.