Rawr.Mage - Page 7

Loktar · 01/18/09, 5:14 AM

Didn't mean to post, sorry.

manly · 01/18/09, 11:24 PM

Hi Kavan. As I was working on my spreadsheet to expand and support arcane and frost spells, I came to realize that my numbers for AB and AM crits were totally not matching results from live. I checked out of curiosity what numbers RAWR had, and they were the same incorrect numbers.

The discrepancy is rather large. Were talking predicted 4k crits (for AB-0) whereas reality gives 10%+ higher crits. I am unsure where the extra crit multiplier comes from. I realize this isn't a bug in RAWR itself, but I am aforewarning you that current mage TC is inaccurate for calculating arcane spell dps using 0/53/18 builds (at least that, probably more exceptions). Something to keep in mind.

If anything, I suspect that means we have some talents that operate outside of whats written on the tooltip.

manly · 01/19/09, 12:52 AM

Upon further inspection, it appears that the following spells are affected by the crit multiplier miscalculation (or rather, some buggy talent affecting spells it shouldnt ?):

cone of cold
frostnova
frostbolt
ice lance
AB
AM

curiously, blizzard is unaffected.

Astrylian · 01/19/09, 1:53 AM

Using a standaring 57/3/11 spec on the test realm (2/3 ice shards), with a CSD, I'm getting a ~1.845 multiplier on AM, so it looks like at least with the spec it matters for, we've got the right crit multiplier. You said that you saw this with a Frostfire build on live... So trying with a standard Frostfire build on test, still with CSD, I get a crit multiplier on AM of... ~1.845.

Working backwards, starting untalented, I get a crit multiplier of 1.57 (ie, 1.5, plus CSD). Adding talents, one at a time, and comparing...Burnout is affecting AM. (And probably AB, and those frost spells you mention above). With 0/1/2/3/4/5 points in Burnout, my AMs were hitting for 965, and critting for 1517/1570/1623/1675/1728/1780.

I don't expect this matters much, since no Arcane spec, or Frost spec, would ever go that deep into fire, to get this, but it is a good catch.

manly · 01/19/09, 1:57 AM

In other words burnout affects all spells except blizzard.

Enthorn · 01/19/09, 9:07 AM

I've never seen Ferocious Inspiration in Rawr. Is it currently modeled? It can stack twice for 3/6% damage increase. In my raiding, it is usually up 100% of the time. It would be awesome to be able to have this modeled in Rawr -- based on whether there's 1 or 2 BM hunters (31 point talent) in the raid.

Also, would it be possible to expand the "Damage Breakdown" to include Ignite damage?

For instance, instead of saying 65% of damage was from Frostfire Bolt, show how much of it was from Frostfire Bolt and how much was from the ignite damage of Frostfire Bolt. Even further, you could show the non-crit damage, the crit damage, and then the ignite damage (which is the crit damage, in a sense, but nonetheless, it's a separate DoT).

In a sense it would show the damage much like WWS does. Although, WWS only parses the log, so it's not going to breakdown the percentage for non-crit and crit, but Rawr could. I imagine it could have a main category, Total Damage, followed by each spell (Frostfire Bolt, Pyroblast, [b]Living Bomb, etc.) Under the Total Damage and under each spell, there'd be a breakdown of:

Non-Critical damage: %
Critical damage: %
Ignite damage: %

Kavan · 01/19/09, 4:50 PM

So if the crit increase from burnout works on arcane spells also, does it also increase the mana cost on crits? As said it doesn't matter much for practical purposes, but I'll make the changes for completeness.

Astrylian · 01/19/09, 5:29 PM

No. Just tested it (Burnout's crit mana cost is a bitch to test, since it doesn't show up in the combat log); Burnout still only charges extra mana on crits of fire spells.

Zaldinar · 01/19/09, 7:59 PM

Manly mentioned this to me earlier, I did some tests on the PTR and came up that every spell I tested got the expected benefit from Burnout except Blizzard. This is obviously a bug. Data will be posted sometime soon, I'm taking this as an opportunity to rewrite my Proven TC Stuff thread to include all the LK data I gathered in beta.

Baruk · 01/20/09, 7:44 AM

I just noticed that, looking at the "reconstruct sequence" graph in rawr.mage,
it takes a flame-cap and immediately after that effect wears off (at least that is how I interpret that horizontal line underneath the graph) it takes a managem.
However, using a flamecap still triggers a 3min CD on managem, so this is not possible. Am I misinterpreting things here? Is the joint CD removed in 3.0.8?

manly · 01/20/09, 3:48 PM

I think rawr should support an option for 'keeping scorch up' (for arcane specs). I know the option is already there, but what it does is 'use rotations that keep scorch up' rather than use arcane rotation and cast a scorch here and there to keep it up.

The difference is rather vast given that 'keeping scorch up' turns your arcane numbers from a 7.2k into 4k dps rather than the more expected ~6.8k+.

♦ nathanbp · 01/20/09, 4:15 PM

Any chance we could get a scaling vs. spirit graph? I'm curious if it jumps at some point where you need less evocation ticks.

Edit: Also, the new hit rating tooltip is really cool, but any chance you could add in how much extra hit rating you have if you're over 100%?

thescreensavers · 01/20/09, 5:33 PM

So I was looking at this and was wondering how come it rates it so high? I know its almost or a little bit worse then 25 haste on pure tank and spanks, as I have read. How does it rate exactly?

Kavan · 01/20/09, 7:14 PM

Originally Posted by Baruk

I just noticed that, looking at the "reconstruct sequence" graph in rawr.mage,
it takes a flame-cap and immediately after that effect wears off (at least that is how I interpret that horizontal line underneath the graph) it takes a managem.
However, using a flamecap still triggers a 3min CD on managem, so this is not possible. Am I misinterpreting things here? Is the joint CD removed in 3.0.8?

Have you enabled the cooldown segmentation? (I'm thinking of just disabling the reconstruction unless that is on because it seems to hurt more than help)

Kavan · 01/20/09, 7:17 PM

Originally Posted by manly

I think rawr should support an option for 'keeping scorch up' (for arcane specs). I know the option is already there, but what it does is 'use rotations that keep scorch up' rather than use arcane rotation and cast a scorch here and there to keep it up.

The difference is rather vast given that 'keeping scorch up' turns your arcane numbers from a 7.2k into 4k dps rather than the more expected ~6.8k+.

I've added the most common ABar cycles with keeping scorch up. It's basically a weighted average of pure arcane cycle and scorch in proportion of expected time spent scorching. Since there is no significant interaction between missile barrage and scorch it should be accurate enough I think.