Rawr.Mage - Page 70

Omnia · 01/09/10, 2:39 PM

Nibelung:
To account for Rawr triggering a proc chance 5 times per AM cast (instead of 1), and to account for holy damage procs being influenced by talents/buffs, I had to use the following settings to simulate 27k dmg/proc, 1% procrate:

Equipment Effects / Holy Damage: 18300
Triger: DamageSpellHit
Duration: 0
Cooldown: 0
Chance: 0.58%
Stacks: 1

This is only to give a general idea for Arcane. Each person will need to set a different damage value and change %, depending on their gear/buffs/spec.

Enthorn · 01/09/10, 5:58 PM

It would be nice to see Nibelung modeled in Rawr correctly though. All of this damage guessing is really giving everyone different results, especially since people are entering the proc itself differently. When I tested Nibelung on a target dummy after the latest hotfixes, it was getting 16 casts (same as before) for ~1650 damage non-crit. Its crit rate is exceedingly low -- something like 5%. There is a very informative post on wowhead regarding it, and his comments definitely mirror the results I've seen using the weapon, and the results TigaFin has seen.

min / max damage is 1591 / 1785 (old 1061 / 1189), crit multiplier is 1.5

That would give an average of 1688 non-crit damage, against a target without debuffs (IE, CoE). That means input into Rawr should be between 26,400 and 27,008 (depending if you want to use a flat 1650 or his 1688). Questions arise though... what crit rate is Rawr using for the proc, if any? What crit multiplier is it using? Is it applying buffs to the damage -- because Valkyr Smite benefits from things like CoE, but not auras like Sanctified Retribution (or its counter-parts, Ferocious Inspiration and Arcane Empowerment). How is the proc handling things like Living Bomb? I know that Valkyrs cannot proc off the Living Bomb DoT -- only the explosion.

Also, his post is indicating that they do not proc off each Arcane Missile -- only the initial cast. Has anyone verified this? In other words, has anyone started a cast of Arcane Missiles and actually seen Valkyr spawn after, say, the fifth missile hits?

Kavan · 01/09/10, 8:26 PM

Yea I agree it needs a separate modeling. It just behaves differently since it's not you casting the procs but the pet.

TigaFin · 01/09/10, 9:43 PM

If you model Nibelung for a single target, you have to remember that the damage is done over 30 seconds, so you could model it as a DOT effect. Any procs during the last 30 seconds of the fight will be less powerful because you do not benefit from the full duration.

If you have multiple targets, the Val'kyr will switch to a new target when their original one dies, so the DOT model isn't accurate. There and the single spike model is better.

Maje · 01/10/10, 5:53 AM

Some information about [Dislodged Foreign Object];

* ICD is 45 seconds
* When it procs you gain 2 buffs the first is Surge of Power - Spell - World of Warcraft and the second Surging Power - Spell - World of Warcraft, Surging Power is the one that stacks (to 10).
* It procs of of spell casts; for that matter the beginning of the spell cast is the trigger, each AM tick cast can trigger it.

I'm not sure about the proc rate, since the above information is from parsing worldoflogs, but it's reasonable to assume 10%. In general, the uptime of the buff during a fight seems to be around 40%.

To model it in rawr you can edit the trinket and add a special effect of (105 + 1050) / 2 = 577.5 spellpower for 20 seconds 10% proc chance and 45 seconds ICD. It is around 30% better then normal Reign for Arcane.

--Rawr's evaluation agrees with 40% uptime since the numbers match almost exactly the value of 155 haste + static 230.8 spellpower (577.5 * .4).

Aestis · 01/10/10, 6:12 AM

Uptime for [Dislodged Foreign Object] should be 20/(45+1.75*(1/10%)) = 32%. (Proc Mechanics)

With my Arcane gear and the Rawr settings you've entered that's 10.6% 14.1% better than heroic Reign, and 28.1% better than normal Reign.

Edit: Kavan, you're right, the proc formula above is overly simplistic. Simcraft gives me 40% uptime over a 5-minute fight, which agrees with Maje's testing, and with my t10 head/shoulders in Rawr, the 264 Object is a 174 and 98 dps upgrade for the normal and Heroic Reign respectively.

Maje · 01/10/10, 7:21 AM

1. The uptime is closer to 40%, that's from real logs, saying it's 32% is pointless.
2. Either the proc rate is higher then 10%.
3. You didn't take into account the fact that each AM tick can trigger it, which significantly lowers the average cast time.
4. There are various other haste effects that you haven't taken into consideration.

* It is only around 20% better then then heroic version (mixed up normal and heroic reign's since I am using both) and 30% then the normal reign, again the gearset I used uses 2t10 and has around 200 spellpower and haste more then yours. But the exact value would change for each gearset, the certain thing is that it's better then previous tear trinkets.

EDIT: I took a log of around 5 minutes of DPS for arcane mage, it lasted for 302 seconds and had 275 spell cast events, which gives a value of 1.1 for [v] and and an uptime of 37% (assuming the same 10% proc chance), which is much closer to what the logs show.

EDIT2: Just to make sure I ran simcraft with the same gear used in rawr; swapping in/out normal reign with DFO; the uptime for it's buff is 40.6%, the average time between procs is 50.6 seconds. The trinket's value is 40% better then the normal reign.

Kavan · 01/10/10, 1:29 PM

Originally Posted by Aestis

Uptime for [Dislodged Foreign Object] should be 20/(45+1.75*(1/10%)) = 32%. (Proc Mechanics)

With my Arcane gear and the Rawr settings you've entered that's 10.6% better than heroic Reign.

This uptime calculation is very simplistic and only gives you the long term trend. When you calculate uptime on a limited time duration (which is what Rawr does) you'll get a higher uptime since you start off cooldown.

delaydackel · 01/10/10, 3:43 PM

It seems like rawr does model [Muradin's Spyglass] correctly in terms of showing how much dps you would gain from the trinket but when you equip it, it doesn't take the 180 sp into account when calculating your overall dmg/dps. I even changed the stacking effect to a static 180 sp equip effect thou the results remain the same.

Aestis · 01/10/10, 5:02 PM

As far as I can tell this is because Rawr applies 10 Spyglass stacks on the first damaging spell hit. It appears to work the same with [Eye of the Broodmother].

Edit: Meaning they're modeled the same in Rawr... not that they behave the same in game.

delaydackel · 01/10/10, 5:17 PM

Useless post, delete please.

cbags · 01/11/10, 12:36 PM

Actually the two trinkets are worded quite differently. Eye is listed as "cast" a damaging spell, which allowed the user to stack it up with Arcane Explosion, prior to a fight. Spyglass says on damaging spell hit. They likely should be modeled differently, unless the spyglass is behaving LIKE the eye, and stacking on spell casts. Hell, they fixed the eye to get a stack with blizzard, and now it seems to proc off casting Slow Fall still.

Light4 · 01/11/10, 7:22 PM

I have the 10man Spyglass and it is proccing on Spell damage hit, which can get awkward at times with spells with travel time; you loose the stack, although the spell has already left your hands.

Ring0 · 01/11/10, 8:56 PM

Originally Posted by cbags

Spyglass says on damaging spell hit. They likely should be modeled differently, unless the spyglass is behaving LIKE the eye, and stacking on spell casts.

I can confirm that they behave different. The Spyglass gains a stack when your damaging spell hits the target. Several hits, even simultaneous ones, will gain several stacks.

• Hamlet · 01/12/10, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Enthorn

It would be nice to see Nibelung modeled in Rawr correctly though. All of this damage guessing is really giving everyone different results, especially since people are entering the proc itself differently. When I tested Nibelung on a target dummy after the latest hotfixes, it was getting 16 casts (same as before) for ~1650 damage non-crit. Its crit rate is exceedingly low -- something like 5%. There is a very informative post on wowhead regarding it, and his comments definitely mirror the results I've seen using the weapon, and the results TigaFin has seen.

min / max damage is 1591 / 1785 (old 1061 / 1189), crit multiplier is 1.5

That would give an average of 1688 non-crit damage, against a target without debuffs (IE, CoE). That means input into Rawr should be between 26,400 and 27,008 (depending if you want to use a flat 1650 or his 1688). Questions arise though... what crit rate is Rawr using for the proc, if any? What crit multiplier is it using? Is it applying buffs to the damage -- because Valkyr Smite benefits from things like CoE, but not auras like Sanctified Retribution (or its counter-parts, Ferocious Inspiration and Arcane Empowerment). How is the proc handling things like Living Bomb? I know that Valkyrs cannot proc off the Living Bomb DoT -- only the explosion.

Also, his post is indicating that they do not proc off each Arcane Missile -- only the initial cast. Has anyone verified this? In other words, has anyone started a cast of Arcane Missiles and actually seen Valkyr spawn after, say, the fifth missile hits?

Just swinging by from the Moonkin forums:

1688 mean damage before CoE is what I've seen after some testing. I get just about 1900 per hit on a level 80 dummy with Earth and Moon (1688*1.13 = 1907). It it not buffed by Sanctified Retribution or Moonkin Aura, but it does gain the Totem of Wrath crit effect and/or Imp. Scorch (at least, something is making it crit on bosses, even though it doesn't on a target dummy).

It is affected by level-based partial resists (how much is that again? 6%?).

I get a 1% proc rate on Wrath as Resto spec, but over 2% as Moonkin spec, and over 3% as Moonkin spec with Starfire. So various odd things do proc it. In our case, I think it might be Earth and Moon, and maybe Glyph of Starfire.