I want to echo what Kavan has said before about the haste "softcap" being a misleading term. I'm seeing a lot of people assuming that it's like the hitcap and you want to avoid any haste from 518 upwards. The fact is that haste is still making your spells cast quicker and lowering your GCD. Considering both scorch and pyroblast! are free and a large chunk of your damage, those get direct benefit. Don't get hung up thinking that haste makes your fireball so much more expensive. There's not as much downside to haste as I think people are imagining.

Which secondary stat is better is also not set in stone; remember that it's a function of your gear. E.g. if you have stacked crit purposely, picked gear preferring crit, then the relative value of haste and mastery increases. In those cases Rawr might start to suggest reforging or regemming away from crit. It doesn't mean that Rawr prefers haste or mastery overall, just for that gem or reforge. You have to consider it in the context of your whole crit-stacked gearset.

As far as I know it values both breakpoints. The difference with previous versions is that there were some improvements made in the modeling so if your only concern is that the latest version gives a different result then trust this result over results from older versions. The nature of breakpoints is that if you're close to either one it's worth skewing your haste to get over it because you get "free" dps. Once you get over the first one haste doesn't lose value and as you get closer to second it becomes worthwile to get over it.

Any thoughts on what the 15% breakpoint corresponds to? The 12.5% one was obvious given the additional LB tick, but I don't recall any discussions root-causing this second one.

15% is from Combustion 2nd extra tick I believe.

I have been playing around with this a lot in the last few days, and the tool is showing a result which I find almost hard to believe. I am not sure how to check the calculations behind it (besides my back of the envelope math which i don't think is accurate) I ran the same setup in SimCraft and got different outcomes, which is adding to the confusion.

Basically the 4 trinket options I have are:

DM Card Volcano Darkmoon Card: Volcano - Item - World of Warcraft
Theralion's Mirror (359) Theralion's Mirror - Item - World of Warcraft
Bell of Engaging Resonance (359) Bell of Enraging Resonance - Item - World of Warcraft
Fig Jeweled Serpent Figurine - Jeweled Serpent - Item - World of Warcraft


Rawr seems to be overvaluing the Serpent, showing it is second BiS...until recently it was much farther down the list, where you would expect it vs. 359 level trinkets. In addition, the Bell is rated as only about 50% of the dps as the 372 version. I wouldn't think the difference in stats would make that big of a difference. I did notice that the CS is different for the 2 procs. Is this accurate, or an error in the tool?

The tool is showing figurine/DM Card to be the best combo. Up until a couple of days ago, the tool showed Card/Bell as the best option, and I just ran all the iterations through SimCraft, and it shows Card/Mirror as the best combo!

Any input/insight you could give to this would be greatly appreciated. Character is Aerowynn on Andorhal if needed for testing.

Thanks in advance.

Edit: Added links for all trinkets.

Rawr does not seem to model Tyrande's Favourite Doll correctly. At least I played around with the damage component to simulate it not always hitting, however, the value of the trinket does not change at all. Is Rawr assuming you never hit with the arcane nova?
Currently it is set up as arcane damage, I tried other kinds of damage but this doesn't change anything.

Regarding trinkets the first thing to check would be whether the proc rates and internal cooldowns match. If you haven't refreshed your item cache in a while try doing that.

As for Tyrande's Favorite Doll I can't reproduce your problem, when I change arcane damage it changes the value of the trinket. Can you verify you're using 4.0.16.0b version?

I refreshed the cache and it now shows the ICDs as being the same. I am trying to do the math on calculating the values of these trinkets, buti am not sure if I am doing it correctly. I am doing:

For static stat: Stat*relative weight (as listed in fire compendium thread)

For variable stat: stat*relative value*duration/ICD

For example, taking Therallion's Mirror:

321 intellect * 3.7216 = 1194.63
1926 mastery/20 sec 1926*1.3588*20/120=436.17

Total value 1630.8.

Am I totally off base on my math/logic? Thanks.

This assumes the on-proc effect of a trinket immediately procs again when coming off cooldown. You really should also factor in the chance to proc in relation to how quickly you are casting spells able to proc it to determine how much additional uptime is lost by trying to trigger the proc in the first place.

So your math will not provide a precise average value for the trinket, but it may be useful enough for quick comparisons depending on what you're trying to accomplish.

I've been playing around with custome spell cycles a bit and stumbled upon some interresting stuff:


Fistly there is no way to include neither Pyroblast nor Pyroblast! into custome cycles. This results in a significant drop in a significant drop in glyhp of pyroblast's value and weird dmg distributions overall. Hopefully this will be fixed soon
Secondly, adding lb>fire blast>scorch resulted in a whooping ~3k dps gain(~15%), lb>fire blast>fireball even in ~3.3k. This seems quite confusing, since fireblast's dpet is considered lower than scorches' dpet, not to talk about mana costs. Having specced into impact my first thought was "maybe rawr is taking aoe targets into account", but setting the number of aoe targets to 0 results in exatly the same dps. Moreover putting points out of impact doesn't affect dps, so I assume it is not modeled at all (?) The only explaination I could think of were more hot streak proccs due to fire blast's higher crit chance, but glancing at the dmg distributions there were even less pyros casted with costume spell cycles activated.

Why does Rawr sometimes rate gear with spirit as better than items of the same iLevel with two DPS rating stats? Specifically, when I import my toon (Finkum@Frostmourne-US), the i346 shoulders [Kyrstel Mantle] (with spirit reforged to crit, with int+crit gem) are rated slightly higher than the equal iLevel [Mantle of Master Cho] with crit + haste (with any gem).

It can't be the case that the Kyrstel Mantle gives enough haste (with appropriate gem + socket bonus) to reach some sort of breakpoint as the Mantle is consistently rated higher for a number of different haste values.

I enabled the unlimited mana option in case Rawr still thought spirit increased mana regeneration for mages, but although the rating disparity lessened, the Mantle was still rated higher.