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Old 09/13/09, 3:13 AM   #736
Legitimate
Glass Joe
 
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Troll Rogue
 
<Og>
Burning Legion
Originally Posted by Sancus View Post
Invis DOES drop you off the threat table of all mobs. Including all bosses. Try it. There's a number of encounters(such as twins) where you can Invis, come entirely out of invis, and stand there waiting, then when everyone else is dead, the boss will reset and ignore you. Unless you get hit by any random target abilities that are connected to the boss threat table(not all of them are, so some don't matter), then it won't work. It's possible to survive a lot of wipes by chaining Mirror Image and Invis though because of this. Did that on many a Mimiron Hard Mode. Didn't work very well on Yogg, though.
I've been messing with this mechanic a fair bit. The fights I can know you can get out of with this trick include Mimiron, XT, Iron Council, Thorium. It was reported previously that it works with Twins as well. It'd be nice to construct a more complete list of bosses you can abuse with this trick.

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Old 09/13/09, 7:21 AM   #737
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
Speaking of interesting mechanics, if you use Ice Block during Icehowl's massive crash, you don't get knocked back nor stunned and are free to run around for as much time as you want. What always interested me was whether you get killed if you're in the middle of his trajectory.

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Old 09/13/09, 7:38 AM   #738
threep*
Von Kaiser
 
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Human Mage
 
Eredar (EU)
Originally Posted by Maje View Post
Speaking of interesting mechanics, if you use Ice Block during Icehowl's massive crash, you don't get knocked back nor stunned and are free to run around for as much time as you want. What always interested me was whether you get killed if you're in the middle of his trajectory.
You won't get killed (while blocked) but he enrages; so don't do it ;-)

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Old 09/13/09, 10:18 AM   #739
Gasillio
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by Legitimate View Post
I've been messing with this mechanic a fair bit. The fights I can know you can get out of with this trick include Mimiron, XT, Iron Council, Thorium. It was reported previously that it works with Twins as well. It'd be nice to construct a more complete list of bosses you can abuse with this trick.
I've survived every Trial of the Champion encounter by just invis-ing out of threat table. This includes Faction Champs, Beasts (during Jormungar on normal/all phases at different times on heroic), Jaraxxus (just make sure you're out of legion flame first), twins (you take damage and uninvisible if I remember correct, but they won't attack you), and Anub'Arak (Never tested during p3 though)

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Old 09/13/09, 10:20 AM   #740
Maje
Don Flamenco
 
Gnome Mage
 
Naxxramas (EU)
That is not what I meant, the scenario is: he casts Masive Crash, you Ice Block, he charges someone else, you run near him will you get hit even if you aren't near the wall?

Icehowl -----you--------->target

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Old 09/14/09, 4:25 AM   #741
Selun
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Nagrand (EU)
Last week on 25man coliseum, 10man coliseum, 10man heroic coliseum Icehowl done this:
I iceblocked close to the middle to not get massive crash and he targeted me. I stood in the IB and he stopped as if he hit the wall while I was in it.
On 10man heroic I canceled IB to evo, and I got targeted by his charge. Again the IB was done close to the middle, and I blinked out of his way but he got stunned as if hitting a wall from the point I did my IB.
In the same 10man heroic coliseum a ret paladin done pretty much the same with his bubble and he got again stunned close to the middle even though there was nothing to hit.

I think the mechanic to this is that the player that gets targeted by the charge will get a "circle" around him and will pretty much tag whoever is close, if those that are tagged get in his way they will die and enrage the boss while he will always crash into that "circle" and not the actual wall.

As far as Invisibility spell goes, from patch 2.3 the bosses got changed to prevent vanish/FD/invis to reset combat and start drinking mid fight. So now bosses have a 30-40yards threat pulse which is done like every 10 seconds or so, and if they hit a player the player prolongs the pulse in around 20-30yards. So at every fight in the game if you invis and stay away from boss and nobody from the raid comes near you (except invisible mages) even if hit by aoe (if you don't use any spell/ability/potion/gem/HS/etc) you will survive at end of the fight. The problem is that people see you run and survive, and after a while they will start running after you lol.
Only fight where I didn't survive was Flame Leviathan.

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Old 09/14/09, 9:30 AM   #742
gnougat
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Barthilas
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'm fairly sure ignite's double dipping on the Twin Val'kyr fight.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/21/...1409212204.jpg

(138k ignite max tick) - Some attempts, my 'ignite damage' is greater than my 'fireball damage'.

Makes the discussion about Arcane with Incanter's Absorption being ideal for Twins kinda moot.

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Old 09/14/09, 10:53 AM   #743
Zaldinar
Don Flamenco
 
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Human Mage
 
Arygos
Originally Posted by gnougat View Post
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but I'm fairly sure ignite's double dipping on the Twin Val'kyr fight.

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/21/...1409212204.jpg

(138k ignite max tick) - Some attempts, my 'ignite damage' is greater than my 'fireball damage'.

Makes the discussion about Arcane with Incanter's Absorption being ideal for Twins kinda moot.
Do you have a combat log saved of this that you could make available for parsing?

And or, anyone got a Twin Valks specced fire log? we expect a certain amount of over / under from Munching / Hiccuping, but the scale of that is pretty easy to discern from a real issue where every ignite is getting more than it should.

To truly model the game, we first must research it.
http://zaldinar.wordpress.com/
Proven TheoryCrafting Stuff, chain casting in a PTR near you soon.

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Old 09/14/09, 10:58 AM   #744
gcbirzan
Bald Bull
 
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Human Paladin
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Zaldinar View Post
Do you have a combat log saved of this that you could make available for parsing?

And or, anyone got a Twin Valks specced fire log? we expect a certain amount of over / under from Munching / Hiccuping, but the scale of that is pretty easy to discern from a real issue where every ignite is getting more than it should.
World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis

It's the hard mode, but should still be relevant.

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Old 09/14/09, 11:07 AM   #745
 nathanbp
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Mage
 
Mannoroth
Originally Posted by Zaldinar View Post
Do you have a combat log saved of this that you could make available for parsing?

And or, anyone got a Twin Valks specced fire log? we expect a certain amount of over / under from Munching / Hiccuping, but the scale of that is pretty easy to discern from a real issue where every ignite is getting more than it should.
Sorry, I don't have a log file, but here's a World of Logs parse with both me and Zubreil as fire: World of Logs - Real Time Raid Analysis.

Originally Posted by Crowl View Post
If you have to control a robot dinosaur that fires lazers and there's a time when you shouldn't be shooting those lazers then the encounter is clearly flawed beyond hope of fixing.

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Old 09/14/09, 12:28 PM   #746
gnougat
Glass Joe
 
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Gnome Mage
 
Barthilas
Yeah my recount SS was from hard mode attempts. Sorry, the guy who usually does the WMO wasn't on tonight. Here's a screenshot of the whole run's recount though:

http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/6...1409211534.jpg

Can see that the abnormally high ignite damage was consistent throughout all attempts.

edit: Forgive the poor dps, 70% of the attempts were done without COE on Darkbane. (Some locks simply have zero initiative).

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Old 09/14/09, 2:57 PM   #747
Lucai
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Cho'gall
[20:59:29.901] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane *15928* (R: 974)
[20:59:31.042] Zubreil Living Bomb Eydis Darkbane 3306
[20:59:31.042] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane 9346
[20:59:32.006] Zubreil Fire Blast Eydis Darkbane *16912*
[20:59:32.552] Zubreil Ignite Eydis Darkbane 9557
[20:59:34.143] Zubreil Living Bomb Eydis Darkbane 3306
[20:59:34.143] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane 1031
[20:59:34.897] Zubreil Ignite Eydis Darkbane 19704
[20:59:35.204] Zubreil Scorch Eydis Darkbane *14382*
[20:59:37.060] Zubreil Living Bomb Eydis Darkbane 3736
[20:59:37.060] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane 1165
[20:59:38.105] Zubreil Ignite Eydis Darkbane 18481
[20:59:38.408] Zubreil Fireball Eydis Darkbane 21497
[20:59:40.133] Zubreil Living Bomb Eydis Darkbane *6789*
[20:59:40.133] Zubreil Ignite Eydis Darkbane 18481
[20:59:40.133] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane 931 (R: 206)
[20:59:40.811] Zubreil Living Bomb Eydis Darkbane *12875* (R: 697)
[20:59:40.904] Zubreil Fireball Eydis Darkbane *30891* (R: 3760)
[20:59:42.729] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane *28983* (R: 3528)
[20:59:43.808] Zubreil Living Bomb Eydis Darkbane *5109* (R: 622)
[20:59:43.914] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane *35674*
[20:59:45.484] Zubreil Pyroblast Eydis Darkbane *28809* (R: 3507)
[20:59:46.473] Zubreil Fire Blast Eydis Darkbane 4007 (R: 887)
[20:59:46.875] Zubreil Living Bomb Eydis Darkbane *3193*
From Nathanbp's log it seems that ignite double dips from light essence and empowered light (the mage has both buffs for the entire section of this combat log except the 1st pyroblast was already in the air when he got empowered)

15928 * 0.4 * 1.5 * 2 = 19113.6 (over 2 ticks) followed by a hiccup where he crit right before the ignite tick.

Side Note: They had 201268.8 ignite damage banked when the mob died

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Old 09/19/09, 9:35 AM   #748
tubawizard
Glass Joe
 
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Human Mage
 
Nagrand (EU)
I am considering to change my max dps fire mage spec 20/51/0 Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft into 2/2 for Magic Absorption +3/5 Arcane Concentration.
My consideration is as followed: I want to have max dps, but some magic protection is needed in alot of Ulduar/ToTC fights. Also if you manage to get some resists, there is a good chance you will receive 100% resist in some cases, so 2% mana is restored. You loose the 4% Clearcasting but for some degree you get it back from the fullly resists. Mana isnt a big issue in many fights in Ulduar/ToTc is my experience, so this seems a reasonable option.
Anyone ever considered to do this?
What are your thoughts about it.

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Old 09/19/09, 10:41 AM   #749
Ilyawen
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Mage
 
Die Todeskrallen (EU)
A specc including Magic Absorption has been quite "standard" for a long time now I think. Its a brilliant talent in a lot of ways. Ideally, you would want to specc into the talent for any fight where there is some sort of magic damage flying through the air. If you aren't too keen on respeccing a lot every raidnight, then I would definately include the talent in your normal build.

The beauty of the talent is not the mana-component, although that is quite nice (also, can anyone confirm that it actually does react to your essence-based absorptions on Twins? I've been swimming in mana all over that fight...), but simply the many ways in which 80 resistence more can make you survive. Thorim for example is a very nice fight (although easy enough, I'll admit), where resisting a frostbolt or a nova can make quite a difference. Partially resisting Arcane Barrages on Algalon has made a difference between a dead mage and a living mage in quite a few attempts for me. This talent is probably the single-best thing any mage can specc to offset our survivability-deficit we might have against other classes.

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Old 09/21/09, 9:06 AM   #750
Lucai
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Cho'gall
On the twins, I believe you get 20% mana back when you get the empowered buffs.

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