Grai

Judging by the fact that Forge Ember and Sundial don't share an internal cooldown, I would venture to say that this new trinket would not share either and would indeed stack.

 

Leialyn

Proc Trinkets usually don't "share" internal cooldowns, only active ones do.

 

Duravi

Assuming all things equal crit actually catches up with spellpower around the +3000 spellpower mark for FFB spec which should be attainable at some point in this expansion with full raid buffs and consumables, where as for the other specs it takes highly unrealistic amounts of +dmg to catch up. Just thought that was an interesting situation.

 

Roywyn

The internal cooldowns are usually not shared.

They can only have the same ICD if they use the exact same spell ID for the proccing mechanism.
Not the proc ifself, but the passive buff that can trigger the proc would have to be the same ID.
It likely won't be the same unless Blizzard botches it up that badly, which never happened before.

However, keep in mind it's a PvP item and the melee equivalent has 84 resilience.
I expect the caster trinket to be a bug and changed to resilience Soon(TM).

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

Nemantopia

Yeah, pretty much. The only way I can think to keep it 'the way it is' while adding 'fun' would be to make it a three second cast, that then adds a mini-buff which does the following: sets you into targeting mode [you are trying to place the green ring] and makes your click activate an instant cast Flamestrike effect. Basically, the benefits of instant cast Flamestrike are there, but three seconds apart. As far as coding to make this plausibly work, not trigger the GCD after cast finish, etc...I got nuthing.

And completely right about Evocation. Personally, I think they should just change the damn thing so it's like activating Presence of Mind...and sure, let it trigger the GCD, I could accept that assuming the rest happens:
1) Casting Evocation puts a buff on you [again, like PoM], which (2) over the course of the current channeling duration restores the same amount of mana and (3) turns itself off when a hostile source deals damage that is not absorbed.
-In other words, instead of wasting 8 seconds of DPS time to evocate, we use a single GCD while retaining the damage-taken restriction. Let's us move and cast, still take 1.5s out of our time, and is interruptable.

Wait, keep balancing factors while removing the suck? Preposterous!

Anyway, I was thinking about an Arcane build that looks roughly like THIS with the changes. Not exactly a build with points to shuffle, but a basic Arcane w/IV build. The real question is: is working up to IV, now with the added benefit of +3% hit, worth the loss of alternate talents? I realize most of the untaken talents in Arcane are 'fluff' talents, with only Incanter's Absorption [combined with Shielding for efficiency] being a true DPS talent, but the benefits of those talents...really worth it? I'm just curious...I've always wanted to try Arcane but never really got around to it...and at my [current] respec costs over 40g, I don't want to use a decent gem's or head enchant's worth of gold unless it's going to be a useful experiment for a second spec option [whenever dual-spec hits].

 

Tyrian

Part of me would love to see a "Lets talk about Flamestrike" thread just so we can fully expose/detail all the dirty warts-and-all aspects of the spell and present it for all (hopefully including Blizzard) to review. Of course its been spoken about many times before over the years, but mostly in disjointed and scattered discussion - not really one consolidated reference point.

Anyway, there's other ways to potentially improve evocation. I understand Blizzard like the idea of mages being vulernable (or having a high opportunity cost) when they need to replenish their most valuable resource. It fits the theme of mages, so be it. However there's still ways to keep the theme and improve evocations mechanics. For example: It could be retuned into a spell that increases damage taken while channeling (Pvp balance, also encourage people trying to be smart when to use it), in addition to its mana restore, but gives you a +X% damage buff for X seconds after the channeling finishes. This helps soften the 'I do 0 dps when evocating' frustration.

Essentially the tooltip would say something like, "While channeling this spell, you gain 60% of your total mana over 8 seconds, however you also take 50% extra damage from all sources for the duration. After this effect ends, you become energised for a period equal to the time spent channeling, doing 100% extra damage."

 

birdy

i like that idea. what about removing evo and giving mages a skill, that's similar to innervate (but you can only self-cast it on you ofc). so you can still go with spirit on mage gear. maybe add a debuff to that skill, so you get like +50% more damage while recovering faster. just an idea :p

 

Nemantopia

I'm assuming you mean Evocation as is, but when the spell finishes it gives you a +x% damage buff based on how long you were actually evocating. That is also a workable idea, although this likely belongs in a new thread about current mechanics that are not having the intended effect and suggestions to fix them...or possibly the official suggestions forums, but hey. On that tangent, before Wrath was announced, I tried to make a consolided post about things like a money pouch acting as a 'keyring for currency', similar to ideas others suggested...and look at our currency screen! I've also seen plenty of the features in Wrath very close to actual suggestion posts (many pre-announcement), so the devs CAN be on the same wavelength as us at times. Before this becomes a wishlist tangent, I'll go with:

Two minutes on evocation makes me a happy instancing mage, because I hate drinking between every. single. fight. as much as everyone else. The same applies for farming, to a degree. Mana management in a fight? Class feature. Mana management over time? Same. Managing mana and needing to take the soggy-bread sit every single fight regardless? Hassle.

-----------------------------------------

What I AM curious about is the change to Pyromaniac, listed in the patch 3.0.8 discussion...instead of +3% fire crit and mana reduction, it's providing +3% crit and 30% mana regen while casting...so it traded mana redux for Arcane Meditation. I assume the logic here is to give fire builds access to AM type regeneration while dipping frost for Precision, since FFB isn't exactly needing mana, and that this is a net buff. What I'm curious about is about whether this opens the way for a 20/51/0 to be viable. Does the additional mana regen from a build like THIS ONE justify the loss of hit [meaning it must be on gear] to get the Torment buff, and mean that said fire-build would not have OOM problems? I really think I'm going to test this on the PTR, but wanted input here.

The obvious logic being: I need 3% more hit from gear, but will 'never' have mana issues even in a PuG raid.

 

Jonny_Monroe

I agree flamestrike could benefit from its own thread discussing its failings. For me a rather simple solution would be to have the targetting circle continue to follow the mouse during casting. It would have slight latency problems if you're moving it quickly as the cast ends but that is still far superior to simply cancelling the spell and re-casting.

Also; has anyone been able to test the glyph of Arcane Blast yet? 20/40/60 or 20/35/50?

OMNOMNOM.

 

Guintof

Has anybody been able to test on the PTRs whether the new Totw works with other slowing effects such as improved ice talons or judgement of the just?

 

Obfu

I looked at the Inscription trainer and didn't see it. So I assume it's either NYI, or researched.

 

Physicist

There is nothing in the PTR notes about this glyph. What is the source of knowledge about it?

 

lunaire

I've thought of a new frostfire bolt spec, which takes advantage of ToTW and would like the feedback of elitist jerks theorycrafters. It basically trades away some big fire talents (Hot Streak, Burnout, Living Bomb, and Playing with Fire) for ToTW and some more mana regen.

I don't want to hear feedback on other misc. talent points like "why only 2/3 precision" or "lol student of the mind", although I am curious to know if one point in Playing with Fire is better than Combustion. I don't want to know if one more point in precision is better than combustion.

http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=191015050204

Basically is +9% (12% from totw - 3% from playing with fire) dmg worth the losses from the 3 big talents deep in the fire tree?

 

ebbv

No, that spec is horrible. FFB does not need more mana. It doesn't matter if you say you don't want to hear it, 2/3 Precision is a terrible choice.

 

lunaire

Yeah I've cleared all the content in WoTLK so far and know that mages don't need more mana unless people in your group (especially the mana batteries) die during the attempt.

Ok.. the reason I didn't want to hear it is because, how are you going to justify that +1%hit is better than Combustion?

So far, you've said that the spec is horrible, but I haven't seen any theorycraft or reasoning for "that spec is horrible". My question is:

Basically is +9% (12% from totw - 3% from playing with fire) dmg worth the losses from the 3 big talents deep in the fire tree?

and this seems like the best new "fireball" spec if you have enough top gear so you don't need the +3% precision.
http://talent.mmo-champion.com/?mage...h=191015050204

How would that compare to the spec I linked previously? and to the regular 0/53/18 FFB spec?

 

Pheroz

Randomly distrubiting talent points in the tree and coming here saying that you dont want to hear that the spec is bad, you want other people to do the math for you and tell you how the spec works isn't something that 'contributes to the discussion'.

 

lunaire

It kind of does contribute, because it puts another a possible new spec out in the open, taking into account the new ToTW. If you don't understand why I didn't want to hear much criticism about the miscellaneous talent points, I honestly don't respect your advice.

Let me explain why I don't care about the criticisms. There are no better choices to put those talents into, and they all clash with talents that those points could be better used for with the correct gear and group composition. For example: 1% hit over combustion is debatable with gear/group compo. And the 2 points in student of the mind? There's no better place to place that talent point.

I was wondering if this was good enough for the expert theorycrafters to umm.. theorycraft? lol. And make an estimated DPS comparison to existing specs. I'm not the best at complicated theorycrafting.

 

◊ manly

You know, you could have used rawr and see for yourself how horrible that build is.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

BeeLz

That spec is useless. There's no reason to go frostfirebolt unless you get all 3 crittalents. You might aswell spec fire/arcane then because you'll get the same crit multiplier on fireball, a spell which scales better. Giving up hotstreak is also a HUGE dmg loss. Pyroblast alone is easily 10-15% of your dmg in a fight.

So no, your spec makes no sense at all

 

Pheroz

You put points in Pyroblast. When are you going to cast it?
You put points in World in Flames. Why?? It was already one of the more marginal DPS increasing talents (on a per point basis) and you're not casting Pyroblast or Living Bomb, so is it to make your Flamestrikes better?

Again, simply making noise doesn't contribute to the discussion. If its not well thought out, it simple drowns out and disguises intelligent discussion.

 

Roywyn

Molten Fury still breaks Torment. You get 0% bonus vs. slowed targets above 35% HP, 12% below.

On the PTR that is. Someone need to post that in US bug forums and somewhere where it catches attention.
Source http://elitistjerks.com/1015813-post4282.html


No progress on the other mage questions, meaning Judgement of Wisdom and Glyph of Arcane Blast mechanics.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

dedmonwakeen

SampleOutput - simulationcraft - Google Code has been updated for patch 3.0.8 changes

Arcane profile uses the following priority action list:
mirror_image/arcane_power/arcane_missiles,barrage=1/presence_of_mind,pyroblast/arcane_blast,max=3/arcane_barrage

A new download won't be available until we know more about the JoW and Glyph of AB mechanics.

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft

 

Saruk

I would love to see a thread about Evo as well. It is a long broken mechanic for mages. In suggesting changes though, I would keep it simple. Why not just remove the CD altogether and adjust the channeling so the first second delivers far less mana than the 8th etc. It becomes an opportunity cost calculation. It should be a similar 'outcome' as LT. Down time, where we have a bit of a lull in action, we should be able to get mana back. You can adjust the amount given back at time t1, t2 etc until it is balanced - where you are better off not using it on a straight dps fight as you lose dps time so you still want to gear for the longest possible non-evo situation.

 

Hibbo

Maybe i have missed something, so please correct me if I`m wrong.

The Arcane Mage is buffing Focus Magic to the Fire Mage
The Fire Mage is buffing Focus Magic to the Frost Mage
The Frost Mage is buffing Focus Magic to the Arcane Mage

So all this 3 Specs have 3% (6% in total) more Crit in your Simcraft compared to the Frostfiremage?

 

dedmonwakeen

That is correct.... and to continue this "unfair" trend I have treated the Torment-the-Weak/Molten-Fury interaction as a "bug" not a "feature".... and I treat the double-dipping of Elemental Precision on Live as a "bug"..... which makes Fireball look better than it does in practice.

Focus Magic is a pain..... Most buff-givers do not get extra credit for bringing their buff. But....... This buff is single-target AND it is only reachable through talents.... so I wanted to credit that investment.

http://code.google.com/p/simulationcraft