Optimal Sets / Item Discussion - Page 21

Laetetia · 04/18/09, 8:32 AM

The Loottable by Yogg-Saron and Algalon are not in this Simulation.
I think you can find in this Loot a better 1h.

My results:
20/51/0

DPS: 7297,14 (same Buffs, Latency etc.)
Version: Rawr 2.2.0.9

Kopf: Collar of the Wyrmhunter/Kragen des Wyrmjägers (Rasiermesserschuppe, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 256 Armor/68 Haste/51 Hit/87 Int/114 Spell/85 Sta
Sockel: 21 Crit + 3% crit. Dmg/32 Spell/+ 9 Spell
Enchant: 30 Spell/20 Crit

Hals: Pendant of Fiery Havoc
(Flammenleviathan Hard-Mode, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 41 Haste/46 Hit/51 Int/65 Spell/61 Sta
Sockel: 9 Spell + 8 Haste/+ 4 Int

Schulter: Conqueror's Kirin'dor Shoulderpads/Erobererschulterpolster der Kirin Tor
Werte: 256 Armor/62 Haste/65 Int/98 Spell/65 Sta
Sockel: 9 Spell + 8 Hit/+ 4 Int
Enchant: 24 Spell/15 Crit

Rücken: Drape of Mortal Downfall
(Rat der Eisernen Hard-Mode, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 162 Armor/43 Crit/41 Hit/51 Int/75 Spell/61 Sta
Sockel: 9 Spell + 8 Haste/+ 5 Spell
Enchant: Schneider Enchant > 23 Haste

Brust: Conqueror's Kirin'dor Tunic/Eroberertunika der Kirin Tor
Werte: 314 Armor/82 Crit/81 Int/132 Spell/50 Spirit/75 Sta
Sockel: 32 Spell/9 Spell + 8 Haste/+ 6 Crit
Enchant: 10 Werte

Armschiene: Bracers of Unleashed Magic
(Kologarn, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 138 Armor/42 Haste/36 Hit/46 Int/74 Spell/63 Sta
Enchant: 30 Spell

Mainhand: Staff of Endless Winter/Stab des endlosen Winters
(Hodir Hard-Mode, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 104 Crit/128 Int/587 Spell/84 Spirit/111 Sta/165,24 Dps/2,1 Speed
Sockel: 19 Spell/19 Spell
Enchant: 81 Spell

Zauberstab: Scepter of Lost Souls
Werte: 18Crit/29 Haste/26 Int/44 Spell/37Sta/328,61 Dps/1,8 Speed

Handschuhe: Conqueror's Kirin'dor Gauntlets/Erobererstulpen der Kirin Tor
(Mimiron, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 197 Armor/47 Haste/60 Hit/62 Int/100 Spell/56 Sta
Sockel: 9 Spell + 8 Haste/+ 6 Crit
Enchant: 28 Spell

Gürtel: Sash of Ancient Power/Schärpe der uralten Kraft
(Crafting: Schneiderei)
Werte: 177 Armor/49 Haste/43 Hit/64 Int/81 Spell/63 Sta
Sockel: 9 Spell + 8 Spirit/19 Spell/19 Spell/+ 7 Spell

Hose: Conqueror's Kirin'dor Leggings/Eroberergamaschen der Kirin Tor
Werte: 275 Armor/74 Crit/66 Hit/82 Int/123 Spell/76 Sta
Sockel: 23 Spell/19 Spell
Enchant: 50 Spell/20 Spirit

Schuhe: Spellsinger's Slippers/Schuhe des Zauberwerfers
(Crafting: Schneiderei)
Werte: 216 Armor/56 Haste/64 Int/81 Spell/41 Spirit/63 Sta
Sockel: 32 Spell/19 Spell/+ 7 Spell
Enchant: 12 Crit + 12 Hit

Ring1: Signet of the Manifested Pain/Siegelring der manifestierten Schmerzen
(Kel'thuzad, Naxxramas 25)
Werte: 46 Crit/36 Haste/49 Int/74 Spell/46 Sta

Ring2: Pyrelight Cirle
(Ignis der Ofenmeister, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 46Crit/36 Haste/42 Int/74Spell/63 Sta

Trinket1: Scale of Fates
Werte: 125 Spell/ Use: 432 Haste (20 sec/2 min Cd)

Trinket2: Flare of the Heavens
(General Vezax Hard-Mode, Ulduar 25)
Werte: 120 Crit/ 10% Procc: 850 Spell/10 sec/45 sec Inner Cd

Dorvan · 04/19/09, 1:50 AM

Originally Posted by bizzemage

Are you sure the Staff is better than 1h+oh combo? :O

Currently no 239 1H'ers have been found, which gives the staff a leg up on the competing alternatives.

Jept · 04/19/09, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Laetetia

The Loottable by Yogg-Saron and Algalon are not in this Simulation.
I think you can find in this Loot a better 1h.

Is this including all hard mode loot aside from those tables? The boots from flame leviathan hard mode show in the optimal set I ran, for example.

ChickenCow · 04/19/09, 4:58 PM

Me and the other mage in my guild went FB/TTW and we have been putting Focus Magic on each other. Is that the best decision as it feels like it's always one of us who gets the bad end of the deal.

Dochas · 04/19/09, 5:19 PM

Originally Posted by ChickenCow

Me and the other mage in my guild went FB/TTW and we have been putting Focus Magic on each other. Is that the best decision as it feels like it's always one of us who gets the bad end of the deal.

How is one of you getting the bad end of the deal? You both have focus magic, you both give each other focus magic. That means both of you get the same 3% crit straight up as well as 3% crit whenever the other mage crits. The only difference would be if one of you has a much lower crit from gear which would lower the uptime of the extra 3% when they crit.

ChickenCow · 04/19/09, 5:46 PM

Yeah your right, I just wanted to know if there is a preferred class to apply it to.

Flinx · 04/20/09, 4:00 AM

Thank you for your work, i do really apreciate it

However, you missed [Runed Stormjewel]. It is a 4 spellpower upgrade.

Guaranalol · 04/20/09, 8:22 AM

Why do you choose Improved Scorch since you are nomore using the glyph, and most of the times you're supposed to have a Shadowbolt specced warlock for the 5% effect? I tried this spec and it works pretty fine in my opinion.

Wobax · 04/20/09, 8:35 AM

Well thers some loot upgrades and are: These Legs better than the tier8.5 ones? thers some minor upgrades and 1more socket but would you loose dps considering that you need to pickup t8.5 gloves for the 4setbonus?

EDIT: to the guy above me, because imp scorch also increases crit on your FB? Read tooltips

Spencicle · 04/20/09, 8:39 AM

Originally Posted by Guaranalol

Why do you choose Improved Scorch since you are nomore using the glyph, and most of the times you're supposed to have a Shadowbolt specced warlock for the 5% effect? I tried this spec and it works pretty fine in my opinion.

Increases your chance to critically hit with Scorch, Fireball, and Frostfire Bolt by can additional 1% and your damaging Scorch spells have a 33% chance to cause your target to become vulnerable to spell damage, increasing spell critical strike chance against that target by 1% and lasts 30 seconds. Stacks up to 5 times.

With full points it increases your main nuke's critical strike chance by 3%. It is referred to as the "selfish" part of the talent and is worth 3 points.

Blast Wave - Yes it is nice to have another AoE, but Blizzard and Flamestrike serve well enough, and you should not be in melee range of most AoE mobs in Ulduar. The Rumble during the Kologarn fight is a nice example. Not to mention the knockback is a nuisance.

Combustion is also not a good talent anymore. The way it works was fine for BC, but with the addition of Living Bomb and now the Living Bomb glyph, the talent need to be reworked. They can eat charges when you don't want them to.

Wobax: I noticed those legs are in the loot tables now as well and the first thing I thought of when I saw those was Leggings of Channeled Elements 2.0! Now the only issue is that You're going to have to use the T8 gloves which means you'll have to drop another pieces of loot that has hit rating on it for one that doesn't. Seeing as these pants are such a minor increase in DPS over the T8 ones (pretty much just down to 11 more crit and a few more spell power and haste depending on gems) the difference between the off-set gloves and T8 gloves will have to match or exceed the difference between the other item slot and it's non-hit replacement. I don't see many that would fit the bill by a decent enough margin.

Enthorn · 04/20/09, 8:50 AM

Who are you asking Guaranalol? If you're referring to a collective you, as in, "Why would I," then my answer is that Scorch is preferrable in situations in which:

- There is no Affliction warlock (see Affliction - Spells and Rotations
- There are adds that have very short lifespans, or very short windows of DPS time, but otherwise, require relatively high amounts of burst DPS (adds on Emalon, Heart on Deconstructor, Dark Runer Watcher's on Razorscale; more examples would be here but my 10-man raid has not gone to Ulduar yet)
- You have an affinity with Scorch and just cannot give it up
- It appears you didn't read the tooltip on Improved Scorch or the patch notes, so all of these possible answers mean nothing.

Leggings of the Enslaved Idol definitely look nice. I will certainly add them in when I get home from work. Unfortunately, they may end up being another [Leggings of the Wanton Spellcaster] -- an item that is really good, but is overshadow by set bonuses. Naturally, there is (usually) going to be 1 piece in the set bonus that you want to leave out. Right now, that is [Handwraps of the Vigilant].

Hopefully wowhead starts being populated with more items from user-submitted data (and from wowarmory), and set bonuses can start being implemented into Rawr (someone out there already has 4-piece set).

Laetetia · 04/20/09, 9:10 AM

We must wait of a lot of lvl-139 Items from Hard-Modes and Algalon and for a update for Rawr with this things.
Leggings of the Enslaved Idol is a very good Item and i think its a better alternative than the head. For Fire at the moment I don't think that its better to break the T8-Set.
[Sorry for my bad english]

Originally Posted by Flinx

However, you missed [Runed Stormjewel]. It is a 4 spellpower upgrade.

In my Simulation is this in the Legs

Idyar · 04/20/09, 9:40 AM

Originally Posted by Enthorn

Tailoring - Lightweave Embroidery (7199.77): 132.55 DPS
Jewelcrafting - [Runed Dragon's Eye] (~7199.77) vs [Purified Twilight Opal] (~7108.09): ~91.68 DPS
Enchanting - Greater Spellpower (~7173.16): 32.53*2 = ~65.06 DPS

Did you include the fact that tailors replace greater speed? Tailoring is still the best but mentioning that you lose the ~30dps from speed I think is worth noting in your comparisons.

Enthorn · 04/20/09, 9:54 AM

I need to go back over all of those stats anyway Idyar, which is why I changed all of them to list about values. I'm quite sure things aren't as they seem... I don't think I included some things that I should have. Thanks for pointing it out.

Edit: removed incorrect information (correct information is in a post further down).

Dorvan · 04/20/09, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Enthorn

From a stat standpoint though, Lightweave Embroidery is probably always going to be worth ~132.55 DPS. Enchanting is always going to add (19*2*1.7)+(23*1.63)= 64.6+37.49 = ~102.09 DPS. But when you have Tailoring+Enchanting, you lose out on the 37 DPS from Greater Speed. So you end up with 132.55+64.6 = 197.15. This is really irrelevant though, because the only thing that matters is comparing 132 to 102.

But actually, it may be even better to look at it from a per-enchant perspective. In that case, you would look at 132 vs 37.49, in which case, the gain of 132 amounts to a net gain of 94.51 DPS. And then this is compared to the gain of Greater Speed and Greater Spellpower, which would be 102.09.

If that's the case, then Enchanting (or Leatherworking/Inscription) should be slightly better than Tailoring, due to the gain of 38 Spell Power and 23 Haste. This is a moot point for anyone who is Tailoring+Enchanting, because it's obvious that Lightweave Embroidery is better than Greater Speed.

At question then is, which profession do you replace with Jewelcrafting -- Enchanting or Tailoring? I think the answer, if the above is correct, is Tailoring.

It looks like you double-counted greater speed for enchanting. That is, in comparing Tailoring and Enchanting to need to decide whether baseline is an unenchanted cloak or a cloak with greater speed and stick with that. If baseline is an unenchanted cloak, then Tailoring gains you the value of lightweave (132) whereas enchanting gains you greater speed to cloak and greater spellpower to rings, for a total benefit of 102 DPS. If you assume that greater speed is baseline (as seems most reasonable), then the benefit of tailoring is 132-37 = 95 DPS, and that of enchanting is only the greater spellpower to rings, for 64.6 DPS.

Subtracting greater speed from the tailoring side *and* adding it to the enchanting side double-counts it for enchanting, incorrectly inflating it's value relative to tailoring.