I've guessed Starshard Edge to be +9 Spell Power socket bonus. If you have it set at +5, there's your missing 4. The only place we have a picture of the dagger is from the official armory, and they don't display socket bonuses at the moment. Given that Staff of Endless Winter has a +9 socket bonus, it makes sense that Starshard Edge would as well (even though it's 2H to 1H, that shouldn't matter).
On the part of it's socket bonus: it appears to be +5 Spell Power unless Armory is bugged as there is a Method mage that has the weapon.
After putting in the ring into RAWR, it uses the exact same stats as the ring off of KT. However the socket puts that ring above the Signet; by a good 20 dps (313.33 for the Signet, to 336.51 [with 19 SP ring] for the Nebula)
All buffs the same/gear the same with Runed Dragon's Eye(3) thrown into random red sockets, a Stormjewel, and a little different gemming than what you have shown for yours and rawr puts the dps at 7762.33. As well with BIS gear it's showing Nebula Band/Conductive Seal have higher dps when socketed for their bonus. A purified twiligt opal in the conductive seal, and a reckless monarch topaz in the nebula, and Petrified Ivy Sprig has a Runed Scarlet in it versus a reckless monarch topaz.
Three [Runed Dragon's Eye] and one [Runed Stormjewel] give 5 Spellpower over Enchanting. Once epic gems come out, Enchanting will surpass Jewelcrafting by 11 Spellpower, and the Stormjewel won't matter. I have a feeling far more mages are Enchanting than Jewelcrafting anyway, and undoubtedly far more mages are Tailoring than Enchanting. I'm totally just guessing on this, but based on the number of people who rerolled Jewelcrafting from Enchanting, I'd say it's accurate.
Regardless, 5 Spellpower is only 8.8 DPS at 1.76 per. It's a drop in the bucket, and while this is supposed to be "optimal," it's also supposed to be realistic. I mean, if it was really going for max, all mages would be trolls or blood elves, and gnomes for the racial benefits.
I incorrectly had listed a Runed Dragon's Eye in Conductive Seal. It should be a [Purified Twilight Opal], and I've changed it. Regardless, I'm not quite sure I follow what you're referring to when you say that the rings have higher DPS when they're socketed, since that seems to imply that I have them listed differently, which isn't the case. They're both socketed in my Rawr file, and on the main page, with socket bonuses taken into account.
19 Spell Power at 1.76 DPS is 33.44 DPS.
9 Spell Power is 15.84, 8 Haste is 13.92 at 1.74 each, and 4 Spirit is 3.92 at 0.98 per point, giving us a total of 33.68. It's such a slight difference that it doesn't matter one way or the other. In those cases, I usually gem for the socket bonus just out of consistency.
However, I'm still not entirely sure how you've gotten 7762.33. Are you running 2.2.5? When I switch three Runed Scarlet Rubies to Runed Dragon's Eyes and throw in a Runed Stormjewel, I lose 38 Spell Power from dropping Enchanting. I then gain 39 Spell Power from Jewelcrafting, and 4 from Stormjewel. DPS increases to 7726.05, which is 8.81 higher, exactly what I was expecting.
And I highly doubt that "a little different gemming" is going to net you a further 36.28 DPS. Make sure you're running 2.2.4 when you're comparing it then. I haven't moved over to 2.2.5 yet, as I have to rebuild tons of sets and item caches every time a new version comes out. I get enough error messages ("There was an error attempting to open this character. Most likely, it was saved with a previous beta of Rawr") as it is without upgrading. It doesn't like that I have several items without item numbers that it can look up, apparently.
Why do you mention stormjewels when it comes to jewelcrafting? They're not unique to jewelcrafters, so why are they included in the 7 spellpower that JC has over enchanting?
Obviously they aren't exclusive to Jewelcrafting; you seem to have jumped into the conversation without actually reading anything. You are needlessly grouping two things together that, in the context of the discussion, were never grouped together. Nonetheless, Jewelcrafting has a 1 spellpower advantage over Enchanting:
(32*3)-(19*3)=96-57=39-(19*2)=39-38= 1
Katakylsm was trying to match the DPS I have listed on the first page, and two of the possible inconsistencies were Runed Dragon's Eye and one Runed Stormjewel. Runed Stormjewels are a straight 4 Spell Power advantage at the moment and because you can only have one of them, I have no real reason to include them. I only bother listing gems at all because gems can vary between FB and FFB (reckless vs potent) and some sets use veiled gems.
As far as Jewelcrafting goes... I had used it for all of the sets because it was so far ahead of other professions, and due to blue gem requirements for the meta, it was a clear cut choice for those who wanted a maximum advantage (over other professions). Before the molten armor change to spirit, three Runed Dragon's Eyes gave a 23 spellpower advantage over each purified twilight opal, resulting in a 69 spellpower increase, or roughly 120+ DPS. Even now, pre-3.2, they are still upwards of ~100 DPS (while other professions are down in the 60-65 range).
So, I was trying to set a BiS gear for alliance mages, since it's a bit different from horde one(obviously heroic presence) and that is what I came up to:
Shrug, if Tuskarr's Vitality is imperative for certain fights, then use it. I can't think of any feet items that are unique, and if they are, they should only be unique-equipped, so you could theoretically just get two of the same item and put icewalker on one and tuskarr's vitality on the other. Otherwise, it's only 12 hit -- not a fight-breaking amount.
There have been countless discussions surrounding tuskarr's vitality vs icewalker vs blinking vs dps time (IE, running between globals, using instants like fire blast, living bomb, etc.). It's spread around the threads, and I'm sure it can be easily found with a search for tuskarr's vitality. However, I think the fights that benefit from Icewalker far outweigh the fights that benefit from 8% run speed.
I use Ice walker on my boots and usually I get time to move in between gcd applications if needed. If it's a kiting boss (Razor) or just a boss I need to move to avoid things I try to keep the gcd spells in the amount of time I'm going to need to move, IE LB reapplications and hostreak procs.
Not really, since the first two phases of the fight are meaningless and you do not move AT ALL while you are killing Steelbreaker, which is the only time your dps is relevant. Icewalker wins.
As for the rest, yeah, at least on Freya hard you are using pvp boots in all likelihood(if you are using correct gear) so you get run speed for free.
<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl
I am wondering why Icewalker enchant, in the majority of fights in Ulduar Run speed is a greater dps increase.
Most HMs in Ulduar that i have encountered so far (Hodir, Thorim, Freya) doesent require so much movement but rather knowing when and WHERE to move. If you find yourself running around too much it is more than likely that you wont have enough dps to finish the encounter anyway.
Not really, since the first two phases of the fight are meaningless and you do not move AT ALL while you are killing Steelbreaker, which is the only time your dps is relevant. Icewalker wins.
As for the rest, yeah, at least on Freya hard you are using pvp boots in all likelihood(if you are using correct gear) so you get run speed for free.
Why would I be using pvp boots for 3 Tree Freya? I've done it on 10 man and none of us were using pvp boots.
Why would I be using pvp boots for 3 Tree Freya? I've done it on 10 man and none of us were using pvp boots.
In the 25 man everything hits for significantly higher, meaning some guilds make their members use pvp gear for the extra survivability it brings through stam. (i think thats what he means)
I have see people referencing a magic number when it comes to required spirit for MA glyph to out perform other glyphs.
My question is a little different. Should i give more priority to items with spirit and not the third stat over items that have the third stat and no spirit. I have parsed this thread and have not seen any discussion on this topic. If i am wrong, I apologize and please point me in the right direction.
Most HMs in Ulduar that i have encountered so far (Hodir, Thorim, Freya) doesent require so much movement but rather knowing when and WHERE to move. If you find yourself running around too much it is more than likely that you wont have enough dps to finish the encounter anyway.
Mimiron does. In spades. I re-enchanting my boots with Tuskarr's last night before our kill and didn't regret it for a moment.
The gist of it is that the DPS contribution of Icewalker is a pretty substantial amount and blink can trivialize Tuskarr's Vitality, dependent on distance being traveled. Naturally, on mana intensive fights (of which General Vezax is the only true mana fight), blinking is definitely not the best choice. Then again, if you're doing the fight properly, your moevement should be minimal except for moving out of shadow crashes and moving back in.
As far as spirit goes... at a certain point, Glyph of Molten Armor passes Glyph of Fireball (and it passes Glyph of Frostfire much quicker). No, do not give priority to items with spirit, since spirit is still worth less DPS per point. I suppose if you're in dire need of mana regen, then spirit is worth more, but this really only happens when you don't have replenishment streaming in.
My personal recommendation is the very build I'm using. I use Glyph of Fireball because it's worth more DPS than Glyph of Molten Armor, due to my low spirit (which is a gear problem). Aside from that, I use Glyph of Scorch for a myriad of reasons.
I also spec 2 points into Magic Absorption due to the crazy amount of damage mitigated by the extra 80 resistance. It's no small amount either. I've looked over tons of raid logs and the damage taken is consistent. When everyone else is mitigating 15-25% of damage (due to Mark of the Wild and specific Auras), I'm mitigating 35-45%. That's worth a lot more to me than the paulty amount of extra spirit that Student of the Mind is providing. With that said, Student of the Mind isn't terrible. One point is required (or in Magic Absorption) for TTW, and the second point is better than Combustion, for practical purposes.
So I mean, your points in SotM aren't being wasted or anything, but if you're gearing for spirit, don't.
Oh, and yes, Mimiron phase 2 and phase 4 require movement, but I generally find blinking suffices. Naturally though, you wouldn't blink out of the nuke coming down... but I tend to believe that's more reaction time than 8% more movement speed that's keeping players alive.
Oh, and yes, Mimiron phase 2 and phase 4 require movement, but I generally find blinking suffices. Naturally though, you wouldn't blink out of the nuke coming down... but I tend to believe that's more reaction time than 8% more movement speed that's keeping players alive.
Hardmode. I edited my post.
You move so much from doomfire, frostbombs, etc., that it's almost crazy not to. Blink isn't up often enough, nor does it cover enough of the movement.
You move so much from doomfire, frostbombs, etc., that it's almost crazy not to. Blink isn't up often enough, nor does it cover enough of the movement.
Also for those who are engineers I have found nitro boots extremely useful on mimiron hard as well since if you have to move through fires when blink is down you move fast enough with the nitro boost that you do not take any ticks of fire as you are moving through it.
The reason is simple: you can't move a point from Arcane Concentration to Arcane Meditation, the structure of the talent tree doesn't allow it. The only alternatives to Arcane Concentration for moving further down the tree are Arcane Stability, Arcane Fortitude, and Magic Absorption
Sure you can Dorvan. You can have 2/2 Magic Absorption, 4/5 Arcane Concentration, and 1/3 Arcane Meditation.
You need 5 points on the first tier to put points into the second tier. You need another 5 points in the second tier to get to the third tier. That's 1/2 Magic Absorption and 4/5 Arcane Concentration at this point.
You need another five points somewhere to get to Torment the Weak. Three of these points go into Spell Impact and 1 point goes into Focus Magic. At this point you have either 2/2 Magic Absorption and 4/5 Arcane Concentration, or 1/2 Magic Absorption and 5/5 Arcane Concentration. This opens up the fourth tier, at which point your next three points go into Torment the Weak.
Now, you can also drop Magic Absorption entirely and do 1/3 Student of the Mind, but you'd need to place 5 points into Arcane Concentration. You could also of course do 1/2 Magic Absorption, 4/5 Arcane Concentration, and then 1/3 Student of the Mind, to open up Torment the Weak. At this point you have 18 points in the arcane tree. There's 52 points in the fire tree, and 1 remaining floating point. It can go anywhere.
Mangara is simply comparing that last point -- whether it goes for 2% Clearcasting or 17% in-combat regen. It's a valid question, and I'm not really sure how much more mana is saved. I guess you'd need to figure out how many spells are cast in a specific timeframe. You have your base nuke going every ~2.5 seconds, but you also have Living Bomb being reapplied every ~13-14 seconds, and then Pyroblasts (and 3-4 back to back with 4-piece T8 isn't uncommon at least once or twice in a decent fight).
Let's figure this out... for my 10-man raids, 1 point in Arcane Concentration gives me 54 Mp5. My last Iron Council fight was 7 minutes and 1 second. My DPS time was 6 minutes and 40 seconds, so we'll use the latter. That's 400 seconds, or 80 Mp5 intervals, which in this case means Arcane Concentration would give back 4320 mana.
To go from 10% to 2% then... (sorry for those that did catch this, it slipped my mind the first time around)
Rawr says in that same timeframe I should have had 115 Fireballs, 33 Pyroblasts, 30 Living Bombs, and 13 Scorches. Ten percent of 191 casts is 19 spells. Two percent is 3.82 spells, which is 2480 mana (rounded to 4 casts). Thus, 17% more regen at my spirit level would give back 1.74x more mana than 2% Clearcasting.
Now, I only have 563 spirit in this comparison since I'm using my own character. So let's fire up best in slot character, which has 891 spirit. That file uses 2/3 Student of the Mind. We need to drop a point from Student of the Mind to actually put a point in Arcane Meditation, so we actually can't drop a point from Arcane Concentration, which is what Dorvan was hinting at (though I explained how you can get around this). So for this we drop 2/3 Student of the Mind and spec 2/2 Magic Absorption (no sense in going half way) and drop down to 4/5 Arcane Concentration. The point in Arcane Meditation increases in-combat regen to 816, up from 745 (since we lost SotM).
71*80 = 5,680 extra mana returned over the same 400 second fight
With Clearcasting... our number of casts is listed as 121 Fireballs, 55 Pyroblasts, and 30 Living Bombs. That's 206 casts, of which 2% is 4. (No scorches since Shadow Bolt or some other mage is keeping the debuff up.) So we're still saving about 2480 mana, and in this case, Arcane Meditation is 2.29x more mana returned.
Naturally, there's arguments against this, such as dropping Arcane Concentration at all, when you can spec into both, though the counter-argument that you can take 2/2 Magic Absorption instead is certainly valid. And then there's General Vezax. I suppose some may argue there that they have entire specs for that fight, but I've not found that a respec is even necessary unless you are doing hard mode.
You know, really, it's probably just best to go 2/2 Magic Absorption, 4/5 Arcane Concentration, and 1/3 Arcane Meditation... or do 0/2 Magic Absorption, 5/5 Arcane Concentration, 1/3 Student of the Mind, and 1/3 Arcane Meditation.
I mean, now that I think about it, there's really no reason not to except for General Vezax, especially since picking it up means dropping the second (weaker) point in Student of the Mind. So, yeah, good observation Mangara.
Edit: Without respeccing, the fifth point in Arcane Concentration is giving 134 DPS on General Vezax with a 19.52 build (2/2 MA and 5/5 AC). This is with the fight duration set to 8 minutes, my DPS time set to 70% (I only cast in shadow crashes; we're still working on positioning), haste and damage multipliers set to 2, and mana cost multiplier set to .25, all to simulate shadow crash debuff. One of the problems of course in valuing this is that at 75% reduced mana cost, Clearcasting is saving far less mana. A best case scenario would be if you lose the Shadow Crash debuff but got Clearcasting on the last spell and could use it to reapply Living Bomb or something outside of Shadow Crash.
And while the 17% regen is nice for other fights, it's not really necessary. It is a DPS increase over 2% Clearcasting, but only in fights that mana would be an issue, and I've posted numerous times that I haven't ran into mana issues in 10-man or 25-man. This is party still true. For 10-mans, this is because I'm grouped with 2 resto shamans for two mana tides. I also have replenishment coming in from surv. hunter. However, he went mark on a few fights, and I did run out of mana without the replenishment.
On 25-man, even though I don't have mana tides, there is always a constant replenishment tick, and I end up getting more mana back from replenishment than Master of Elements (which is usually second on the list). This is all without 2-piece T7, which is a loss of 1332-1400 mana every 2 minutes, or 55-58 Mp5.
05/28/09, 9:04 PM
