We could ramp it up...

12023 mana returned in 700 seconds of combat is 86 Mp5, and this was at a 43.7% (weighted average) crit rate. The 4014 mana returned for 1 point would have been 29 Mp5. I'll increase this to a modest 60% crit rate for FB/LB/PB and 50% for Scorch using same number of casts. This increases my fireball crits from 41 to 53, pyroblast from 9 to 12, living bomb from 10 to 16, and scorch from 4 to 7. This results in 88 crits out of 148 casts - just below a 60% crit rate.

62*53 = 3,286
72*28 = 2,016
26*7 = 182

So at a 60% crit rate, up from 44%, my mana return for 10% MoE is 5484 - 39 Mp5, up from 4014. And Arcane Meditation is still only at 4320 - 31 Mp5. Consider another fight in which MoE returned 9873 mana in 360 seconds of combat. That works out to 46 Mp5 for 10% MoE, and naturally, Arcane Meditation would still have been a static 31 Mp5. On a Mimiron fight, MoE returned 11,083 mana over 360 seconds of combat. That works out to 51 Mp5 for 10%.

In other words, given my gear, my int/spirit, even though I'm missing 8% crit buff, the Mp5 from 1 point in MoE is significantly better than 1 point in Arcane Meditation. I have a feeling that this is going to be true for the majority of players.

Also keep in mind that Master of Elements has a lot to do with things like fight duration, number of casts (movement, haste), how many hot streak procs you have, how many 4P T8 procs you have, etc. The more casts you have, the more crits you'll have. Obviously more casts is not increasing your chance to crit, but it is increasing the number of crits you have, and haste and instant casts increases the number of casts you'll have versus the number of casts you would have had without those things. None of those things affect in-combat mana regeneration, but they do affect the amount of mana returned through MoE.

Nebula Band

For frostfire set this is better than Signet of M. Pain.

Also can you confirm whether or not treads of false oracle are truely better than FL hard mode boots for frostfire, especially considering the JC change.

Yes, I know about Nebula Band -- I just haven't updated a lot of sets. That's why I started putting dates underneath sets, to show when they were last updated. If there's no date, it's because they were last updated before I started putting dates.

I'll update some things over the weekend here.

For the non-hard mode Frostfire set, making the following substitutions nets a very small (<10) DPS increase in Rawr:

[Cowl of Dark Whispers] ---> [Collar of the Wyrmhunter]
[Spellslinger's Slippers] ---> [Sandals of Rash Temperament]
[Living Flame] ---> [Scale of Fates]

(moving the Dragon's Eye from feet slot to legs, though that may be a moot point)

This combination also as the advantage of requiring one less item from Yogg-Saron, for anyone whose guild is having difficulties progressing.

Enthorn I just noticed in your normal hard mode list you have scale of fates as one of the selected trinkets. I believe it is only found off thorim in 25 man normal mode?

That is correct, that list is for gear available from Uld 10/25 normal + Uld 10 hard.

I was doing some digging around and have yet to find any information about it, and I may have just simply missed it, but is there any numbers floating around on the proc rates of both the 2pc and 4pc T8/8.5 for mages? Any information would be greatly appreciated.

I know the 4pc is a 25% to proc and a 20% for continuous pyros

Rawr.Mage

2pc I believe has an internal cd of 45 seconds

Hinalover: what do you mean by "20% for continuous procs"?

The following table is the probability of each amount of successive procs, of course if the 10sec window ends you lose out on any additional potential procs. You should average .44 extra pyroblasts (weighted average of the following table).

# bonus pyro	probability
1	0.25
2	0.0625
3	0.015625
4	0.00390625
5	0.000976563

With regards to the 2P T8 bonus. It is a 10% proc (with a 45sec ICD like Hinalover said)

Wowhead lists 2P T8 bonus as a 25% proc chans.

Item - Mage T8 2P Bonus - Spell - World of Warcraft

Calculations aside, i've started running 2/2 magic absorption as per the recommendation from some of my fellow mages, instead of 2/3 SoTM, and I can tell you from personal experience that my survivability on certain hard mode fights at certain crucial junctures, is greatly increased. I've been thinking about dropping my range talents to pick 2/3 SoTM up again, but that's most likely something I'd consider more heavily once i get my spirit a bit higher, and something i really don't want to do at the same time because I'm too used to having the range talents, but getting back to magic absorption...

If you're doing hard modes, i really believe that 2/2 magic absorption is the way to go. It is literally a life saver in many cases. It will save you from those frostbolt volley / frost nova combos on hard mode thorim, you'll take less damage from unstable energy (if for some reason you end up taking a tick) and nature's fury on 3 elder freya (which can prove to be life saving with an incoming ground tremor in conjunction with a healthstone or a health pot provided ice block is already down, as it frequently may be). It will also mitigate a lot of damage on iron council, and it even proves to be more valuable for me for hard mode council because we use our mages to soak static disruption in phase 3 (ice block + everyone with 2/2 magic absorption). In fact, off the top of my head, I'd be hard pressed to think of a hard mode fight thus far where magic absorption is not incredibly useful, save FL.

My guild is working on 3 add Freya currently, and once we down that I'm quite certain that magic absorption on Firefighter is going to be absolutely amazing, no matter whether i choose to go Arcane with Incanter's or Fireball (both of which I've seen played viably in that fight so far),

Also, don't underestimate the mana return you can get from magic absorption either, it can be the difference between reaching for your destro/haste pot during molten fury, instead of having to chug a mana potion.

Obviously mana restoration is not the reason for picking up MA, but it is a nice passive bonus that you get. 1600 mana is nearly half of a mana potion, nothing to scoff at imo, it could be the difference between being oom at 5% if you decided to use a dps potion in lieu of a mana pot earlier on during molten fury, or being able to get those final few nukes and chances at clearcasting procs in.

For example, my Arcane Torrent gives me a similar mana return when raid buffed, and just because it's minor doesn't mean i don't use it.

I get your point though, mana restoration on it is meh in general and definitely not the reason to pick it up, simply an added perk.

My guild is farming Ulduar atm and from the beginning of patch3.1, i was trying to find the best gear for my mage (FFB spec). Then i started using Rawr to find the best upgrades for my Naxx25 gear. But for a few weeks i have seen alot of other people posting their Rawr gear setup, but i see lots of different gear.
My guild doesnt do Hard modes atm and i dont think we will try them soon, so im really searching for the best gear pre-hard mode gear.
I have come up with the following setup and i wanted to ask what i could improve. I see alot of people posting their Rawr setup and it feels like the gear setup i made is so bad compared to them.

[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Hood] + [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond][Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Pendant of the Shallow Grave] + [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Shoulderpads] + [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Drape of Mortal Downfall] + [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Tunic] + [Runed Dragon's Eye][Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Shackles of the Odalisque]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Gauntlets] + [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
[Leash of Heedless Magic] + [Runed Dragon's Eye]
[Conqueror's Kirin Tor Leggings] + [Runed Dragon's Eye][Runed Scarlet Ruby]
[Sandals of the Ancient Keeper]
[Glowing Ring of Reclamation]
[Signet of Manifested Pain]
[Living Flame]
[Eye of the Broodmother]

[Runescribed Blade]
[Ironmender]
[Scepter of Lost Souls]

Self Buffed my stats are:

Spirit: 676
Crit Rate: 1028.8 crit (33,20%)
Hit Rate: 359 (16.69%, 9hit rating to cap) - This i dont understand i thouth hit cap is/was 14% (368hit)
Casting Speed: 366 haste
Fire Dmg: 2387
DPS score: 3804.31

I think this is the best gear setup in Ulduar or am i wrong ??

Off topic: sorry for the bad phrasing, its not my original language (im dutch)

17% is the hitcap, FFB spec gives you 3% hit from precision and your 25man raid should give you another 3% from misery/faerie fire.

Looking at your setup there's a few items that really shouldn't be there.

Your belt, bracers, first ring and first trinket aren't optimal.

[Sash of Ancient Power]
[Scale of Fates]
[Bracers of Unleashed Magic]
[Pyrelight Circle]

These are pretty much better choices imo and easily obtainable, however I don't know at how much hit this puts you.
Note that your cloak drops from Iron council hardmode

Oh yeah, don't use your prismatic gems in your belt buckle, use them in non-red slots.

Also moonkin aura gives another 3% if im not mistaking. Knowing this, what amount of hit are you guys aiming for? Im always trying to get the 14% hit cap, but lately im seeing lot of mages stopping at 10% already (even FFB specced mages) So should i go for the 11% hit cap or is 14% the way to go ?

When i look at Rawr, he said that 359 is 16.69% hit, but i always heard that 368 is 14% hit. So am i so mistaking to get the 368 hit or is Rawr calculating something wrong ?

When im home this evening (at work at the moment) i will implement them in my setup and look what Rawr gives.


This i understand because i heard that i needed to socket these things always

Red socket: 19 spel power gem
Yellow socket: the spel power/crit or the spel power/haste gem
Meta socket: the crit gem
Blue socket: the prismatic gem or the spellpower/spirit gem

Since i dont have enough blue sockets, i thouth it would be better to put the prismatic into the belt buckle.

Moonkin aura doesn't provide 3% hit, it's faerie fire put up by a moonkin [spell]33602[/spell]
So IF you're specced frostfire and have a moonkin or spriest in your raid you should aim for 11% hit or 262 hitrating.
The reason why you see other mages gem for 10% crit is because they are alliance, the draenei racial gives another 1% hit.

As for the sockets. Basically Red > yellow > blue. You shouldn't put a prismatic gem in your belt buckle because you can just put a red one in it without losing anything. So if you don't have any blue sockets, put them in yellow ones.

I suspect that the gloves ID is 45665 and that Maalakai of Premonition is wearing them (armory doesnt show the item and he was there when they killed Algalon). For adding the gloves in Rawr...

P.S.: Obviously new best-in-slot. Doesn't require any other gear changes. (oh and the icon is "inv_gauntlets_61" btw)

These seem perfectly itemized. More haste than crit, int budget is 2/3rds of stam so nothing looks too heavy or wasted, and spell power socket bonus. If it had a red/yellow or double red sockets, does that effect the item budget much?

I'm not just gawking, follow up statement: Like Enthorn said, no ilvl 239 chest/shoulders/belt/wand. I disagree that there probably won't be a wand, there is not a well itemized(dual combat rating) wand with a socket yet, if one drops off algalon it will probably be Vezax with a socket. Chest would be 3 sockets and dual ratings, just like XT's plate chest. However that is exactly what freya legs are compared to t8.5 and we don't use that in optimal. Shoulders there is good room for improvement, no dual ratings with sockets yet. I personally want to see a new helm-

Crown of Luminescence(239, mimiron) is NOT well itemized because it has 111 stamina, 92 int, 70 spirit meta and red(unknown socket bonus) 131 SP and 69 crit.

There would be vast improvement If the same setup as Pharos Gloves were given to a 239 helm, because t8.5 gloves are pretty well itemized, hate replacing them while keeping 4 piece.

One last thought- are mages even close to losing 4 piece bonus to use more hardmode loot? Or is that never an option for Ulduar for Fireball?

I wouldn't expect to see this. In near BiS gear (mainly just missing Algalon loot. You get about 150dps frm 4P T8. This dps gain does come alongside a loss of mana efficiency. Be that as it may, swapping two pieces of T8.5 for two ilvl239 items isn't especially likely to overcome the 150dps from 4P T8.

This is true for 2P more so, mainly since there are not ilvl239 items for every tier slot.

We dont use freya legs because its dual ratings with one of them being hit. Hit is abundant in Ulduar gear.

New Algalon waist from Stars (TW-Crystalspine Dagger)



So
TtW FB
[Petrified Ivy Sprig] <=> [Scepter of Lost Souls]
[Starwatcher's Binding] <=> [Sash of Ancient Power]
[Pharos Gloves] <=> [Handwraps of the Vigilant]

FFB
[Starwatcher's Binding] <=> [Cord of the White Dawn]
[Pharos Gloves] <=> [Handwraps of the Vigilant]

Emphasis mine. I do not understand why you would say that. Isn't the primary goal of Focus Magic giving you maximum uptime on the reflexive buff when your target crits frequently? The secondary goal is increasing your target's spell crit by 3% (Lava Burst isn't the only spell elemental shamans crit with). An elemental shaman seems like a perfectly viable target to cast it on if you don't have "another Mage, a Disc Priest, a Resto Shaman, or a Holy Paladin" in your raid.