smulch

Are you using the heroic version loot only?

And yes, it was a slight error from my part on the ring, thanks for notifying me.

 

Sancus

Yep. All of those items are heroic, and in fact they're all heroic 25(258) except for cloak(272), Firestorm Ring, Flare of the Heavens, and Petrified Ivy Sprig obviously.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

smulch

Try to ignore the mana regen granted by the wand through spirit/int (infinite mana scenario). See if it still choose the wand as BiS.

ok, yes. Petrified is still BiS. Op socket :P !

 

◊ nathanbp

I don't know why you think Petrified Ivy Sprig wouldn't end up BiS. Because of the socket it has 18 more spellpower than any other wand in the game, and even without that socket the stats on it are almost as good as either ilevel 245 wand.

 

Maje

Regarding [Reign of the Unliving] (the i245 version); I hacked up rawr a bit and changed the thunder capacitor modeling to the numbers for the new trinket, assuming both trinkets behave the same way (crit/damage) it makes Reign of the Unliving a very good one, or 17% better then [Flare of the Heavens].

Using it also increases the value of crit by 8% and haste by 4% while spellpower's value remains the same.

Basically the only thing making Flare of Heavens viable is the assumption that normal and heroic versions of the new trinket can't be used together.

EDIT: [Talisman of Volatile Power] is not a good trinket even if you change the on use effect to grant a flat 512 haste rating.

 

◊ manly

Theres always the unlikely possibility that the fire damage dealt by that trinket is affected by some talents.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

smulch

Yes, this is the current assumption, but I believe it's a normal one since I saw a "unique: name of the item" on another item (I believe it was a ring). So while I would like it if you could use it twice, I highly doubt it will be the case.

 

Toabo

What exactly did you change? Rawr has consistently rated Reign well below those from Ulduar - a result I personally find counter-intuitive. (Certainly seems like a good trinket.) But I've never been sure whether Rawr's default numbers for the trinket aren't modeling it properly or if my intuition is simply wrong about the quality of the trinket.

 

smulch

Rawr isn't considering the proc.

So he took the lightning capacitor and changed the data on it to be similar to reign of the unliving.

 

Maje

Indeed, the proc can't be defined, it needs to be modeled in code.

Thunder Capacitor is already modeled, I changed the code for 2s CD between procs, 3 stacks instead of 4 untill the damage, and the damage range.

 

Sancus

Fire vs. Arcane, 3.2.2 T9 showdown
Note: All gear in this post is the highest itemlevel available for that particular item.
Updated for newest version of Rawr 08/26/09

Conditions
Fight Duration: 300 seconds
Focus Magic: Traded/On Self, 0.373 rate
Latency: 0.01 cast, 0.05GCD, 0.2Channel(standard Rawr settings)
Buffs: Full raid buffs including Fish Feast and Flask, 1x Mana Tide, no usage of Power Infusion or Innervate
Professions: Jewelcrafting and Tailoring

BIS Fire T9 20/51/0
Set DPS: 10232.86dps, 10610.62dps as Arcane
Alternative for Alliance who need less Spellhit(Armbands of the Ashen Saint) - 10275.09dps, thanks Jaxdahl
(Glyphs: Molten Armor, Fireball, Living Bomb)

Head Sunstrider's Hood of Triumph [meta/sp+spirit]

Neck Wail of the Val'kyr [sp+haste]

Shoulders Sunstrider's Shoulderpads of Triumph [sp+spirit]

Chest Skyweaver Vestments [sp+spirit/sp+haste/sp], Major Spirit Enchant(not Powerful Stats)

Waist Belt of the Tenebrous Mist [sp+spirit/sp/sp]

Legs Sunstrider's Leggings of Triumph [sp+haste/sp+haste]

Feet Boots of the Mourning Widow [sp+spirit/sp]

Wrist Dark Essence Bindings [sp+haste]

Hands Sunstrider's Gauntlets of Triumph [sp]

Finger1 Firestorm Band [sp]

Finger2 Lurid Manifestation [sp+haste]

Trinket1 Reign of the Dead 245

Trinket2 Reign of the Dead 258

Back Aethas' Intensity [sp]

MainHand Mortalis [sp+haste]

OffHand Symbol of Transgression

Ranged Petrified Ivy Sprig [sp+haste]

BIS Arcane T9 57/3/11
Set DPS: 10884.0dps
(Glyphs: Arcane Blast, Arcane Missiles, Molten Armor)

Head Sunstrider's Hood of Triumph [meta/sp+spirit]

Neck Wail of the Val'kyr [sp+haste]

Shoulders Sunstrider's Shoulderpads of Triumph [sp]

Chest Skyweaver Vestments [sp+spirit/sp+haste/sp]

Waist Belt of the Tenebrous Mist [sp+spirit/sp/sp]

Legs Sunstrider's Leggings of Triumph [sp+haste/sp+haste]

Feet Boots of the Mourning Widow [sp+spirit/sp]

Wrist Armbands of the Ashen Saint [sp]

Hands Sunstrider's Gauntlets of Triumph [sp]

Finger1 Circle of the Darkmender [sp+haste]

Finger2 Lurid Manifestation [sp+haste]

Trinket1 Reign of the Dead 245

Trinket2 Reign of the Dead 258

Back Aethas' Intensity [sp]

MainHand Mortalis [sp+haste]

OffHand Lightbane Focus [sp+haste]

Ranged Rod of Imprisoned Souls

Notes:

1. Modeling of Reign of the Dead does not use the old Lightning Capacitor models(which no longer worked well with WotLK cycles). Some new ones that are hopefully more accurate have been added to Rawr. Currently, they assume that the trinkets are not affected by any of our Fire damage talents at all, even though they deal Fire damage. If testing proves different, then these trinkets are even more powerful.
   
2. Haste is better than spellpower(point for point) for both Fire and Arcane, but it is verging on being better than Spellpower for Arcane, to the point that I saw extremely small increases in dps by using pure haste gems in yellow sockets. However, these dps increases were <1dps, and swapping a haste gem in was not always a dps increase. Also, I suspect that the proccing trinkets affect the valuation of haste enough to confuse this to the point that I decided not to try socketing pure haste gems in the Arcane set for very small, doubtful dps increases. Needless to say, gemming crit of any sort is not worthwhile.
   
3. If you add together all the benefits of Engineering(nitro boosts, saronite bombs off the gcd, glove enchant), combined with the ever-increasing value of Haste, there is a solid argument that it is better than tailoring and the best profession combination is Engineering/Jewelcrafting. However, since it's pretty difficult to model 2/3 of those things, I left it out. Regardless, it is a competitive alternative and people should not restrict themselves to Tailoring any longer.
   
4. I used 3/3 SotM in the Fire Spec, 0/3 Arcane Meditation. This is not an issue in a 5-minute fight, but it could be in longer fights. Also, Rawr's standard Arcane spec has 0/3 SotM. It's possible to put some points in this for 30dps per point, but you have to give up other very useful utility points(such as range) that I would consider standard. Note, however, that Arcane Mind > SotM, so trading points there is not worthwhile.
   
5. Thankfully, Petrified Ivy Sprig is not BIS for Arcane ;p

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

Anobix

Excellent work there, Sancus.

I will definitely be excited to try out arcane again as I haven't done so since mid-naxx before I switched to fireball. I find it interesting that the trinkets are not seen as 'unique' in that you can only have one at a time, I would hope that one proccing wouldn't overwrite the other's proc because of the 2 second cooldown involved -- I'm sure this has been discussed though in a separate thread all about trinkets, though.

Also interesting in how much stronger haste has become over the patches, I would probably continue to gem for spellpower as it is a more 'for sure' gain in dps, but coming point for point to be almost equal is pretty cool.

 

Maje

I doubt very much that Reign of the Dead/Unliving stack normal + heroic. Shouldn't change the gear though just means that the normal version gets replaced by Flare of Heavens.

 

◊ manly

It does.

Log on with different model:
1- Create a character of the desired model. Log on/off.
2- At character selection screen, select your actual character; mouseover the new, desired model character, and hold down left click; hit enter and release left click at the same time.
bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Thegoodman

I would be surprised if they do NOT stack. The trinket text defines them as different entities that are stacking (mote vs. shard) and there is no reason why they shouldn't work side by side. Similar to any other trinket, the bonus effects stack and can work simultaneously.

Beware! The mind of the believer stagnates.

 

smulch

Your uptime for focus magic will vary depending on the spec of the person you use it on. If arcane is better than fire, it's logical to assume that your target will also be arcane (trading focus magic) which will result in a lower uptime of focus magic due to the mechanic behind arcane. Fire, has a nearly permanent focus magic due to living bomb dots trigerring it, so I don't really agree with your numbers coming from focus magic uptime.

Also, did you consider the usage of potions and flamecap?

 

Sancus

Focus Magic uptime is largely meaningless, 0.373 was just a copy paste from Enthorn's original standard for this thread, which reads:
So, that number is already ignoring Living Bomb crits proccing Focus Magic. And frankly, the difference between 0.373 and 1 focus magic rate is about 3.1dps for fire, on 10,000 dps.

Yes, potions are used -- potion of speed is best for both specs. I didn't use Flame Cap, as it can be pretty tough to get a supply of it these days. That said, if you choose to use it, it adds about 70dps to Fire. Not worthless certainly, but not exactly huge either.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

Sancus

And again, attachments for those interested. Thanks to jaxdahl for pointing out a mistake.

Attached Files

T9Sets.zip (5.3 KB, 788 views)

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

ShowXdown

Great Work Sancus


But what about ffb spec? I thought due to the high critrating gains of t9 Set it will be competitive? Or is it still behind fire?


For a pure Raiding mage, it seems that we need both specs, 1 for single target dps and burst power in dps times, and the other for multi target fights and -30% fights (like yogg p3)

 

jaxdahl

I took a quick look at the T9 FFB dps, the gap seems to be closer than before, but still inferior to fireball by about 2-3%. Relative stat values Rawr spit out were 2.2 crit, 2.1 haste, 2.0 spellpower.

edit: disabled focus magic and FFB dropped another 300 dps, putting it 5-6% below fire

 

Ferrador

Which version of Rawr did you use to create that char?
Everytime I try to open the xml file I get an error message.

 

jaxdahl

That's caused by armory not having the T9 258 items, add the following 47758-47762 for alliance, 47763-47767 for horde via the Edit items thingy before you open it.

You will have to download and compile the latest SVN version of Rawr for correct trinket computation or wait for a tagged version to come out.

 

Sancus

FFB, Rawr Standard 0/53/18
9681.15 - no Focus
9971.80 - Focus Magic self-buff

Head Sunstrider's Hood of Triumph

Neck Wail of the Val'kyr

Shoulders Sunstrider's Shoulderpads of Triumph

Chest Flowing Vestments of Ascent

Waist Belt of Biting Cold

Legs Sunstrider's Leggings of Triumph

Feet Boots of the Mourning Widow

Wrist Dark Essence Bindings

Hands Sunstrider's Gauntlets of Triumph

Finger1 Circle of the Darkmender

Finger2 Lurid Manifestation

Trinket1 Reign of the Dead

Trinket2 Reign of the Dead

Back Aethas' Intensity

MainHand Mortalis

OffHand Talisman of Heedless Sins

Ranged Petrified Ivy Sprig

Gemming: SP+Crit in yellow sockets, SP+Spirit in Blue, SP in red. Get all the socket bonuses.

Alliance swap the wand out for Rod of Imprisoned Souls and go up to 9881.35dps.

You'll also need a version of Rawr compiled from source for the damage proc and Arcane updates, as well as what jaxdahl mentioned.

<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl

 

Cubelar

What do you guys plan on using your emblem of triumphs on?

i have 60ish right now, i'm thinking the ring

 

ash2ash

You're free to do as you like with your badges, but there really isn't any reason that anybody should be using their emblems for stuff other than tier gear or sigils/totems/idols/librams at this point.

Ghostcrawler - "I'm the asshole that nerfed your class" - Blizzcon 2009