Yes, but with the new improved +~80sp (on average according to wowhead comments ) change in lightweave. Would the swap be worth it. At what point will tailoring be better or worse than the gain from the ease socket bonus and if we look at the pure +sp gain it would seem that tailoring is now powering up for 2nd generation buffs.

After some testing I see the following facts:
- Lightweave procs can come at the same time as other procs like from Sundial of the Exiled
- Lightweave procs stay up for appx 33,33% so gives an +82,5SP average
- Tailoring seems then to give a 43,5SP buff over JC.

WWS reports testing proc rate on LW:
Wow Web Stats
http://wowwebstats.com/txemmtgzho4b5
Wow Web Stats

If tailoring gives a benefit more than double that of any other profession, it will be nerfed accordingly.

This is just common sense.

On the flip side of this, as Epic Gems become available, JC's benefits will be diminished assuming you use the JC stones to replace your 2 blue meta requirements and 1 yellow socket bonus requirement. Also, the Molten Armor changes make the Purified gems even better.

Pre 3.1: 96 SP vs. 27SP, 8 HASTE, 16 SPIRIT
Post 3.1: 96 SP vs. 36SP, 10 HASTE, 11 CRIT, 20 SPIRIT

JC is still a good profession, just not as good as it was before epic gems were available.

What's with all the comparison between JC and Tailoring?
They aren't the only 2 professons.

With the fix to Lightweave, that would make JC and Tailoring the 2 "better" raid professons, true? (Since BS and Enchanting both provide 38 spell damage bonus...)

I have reading this forum for a long time but im abit shy to ask questions here because i dont wanne sound like a total noob, i know my class but what i figured out today it seems like im wrong :s

For the first time i tryed Rawr out and looked at what my gear is 'worth' for ulduar and also to figure out what specc is the best for when 3.1 ships into live.

When i looked at Rawr i was amazed on the amount of 'wrong gems' i made. Atm im FFB specced and i always asumed that Crit is an important stat for this specc.
And when i looked at my gear i was pleased on the amount of spellpower i had and crit on gear, so i tryed to gem my gear with spellpower and haste to have a good amount of crit and haste to keep my DPS up.
But when i look at Rawr it seems that spellpower gems are the way to go :s. Also Rawr tells me that for some gear its better to use spell/hit gems instead of spell/haste, but im already hit capped (14% = 368hit)

Even my trinket, where i thought it fitted good into my spec seems like a waist of DKP points spend on it.

So my question is if spellpower gems > spell/crit and spell/haste ?

sorry if i ask this in the wrong topic but i thought this topic is more for this kind of question.

For the people that wanne see my char first here is the armory link --> Vulpturius

(just deleted herbalism for jewelcrafting, so its not that high atm, but should be at the end of this week)

Your stats are given weights to determine their relative value. Most people show this as the amount of DPS one point in a given stat is worth. In almost all cases, spellpower is weighted highest once you're hitcapped. That's why pure spellpower gems are shown as better than SP/crit or SP/haste gems.

You should socket every red socket with a +19 SP gem (+32 once you get your JC skill high enough). Use the orange gems with SP/crit for any yellow sockets, since crit is weighted higher than haste for FFB. Since you have Icy Veins at your disposal, you shouldn't worry about haste on your gear. You will benefit more from spellpower and crit. This is also why the Chaotic Skyflare Diamond is the best meta to use, since it provides a boost to both SP and crit.

If you need to fill a blue socket in order to get the meta bonus, use a SP/HP purple gem. Since FFB is so easy on mana, the SP/MP5 gem is pretty much a waste. You'll get more out of a few points of health than mana regen.

I'd say drop that Extract of Necromantic power trinket. As far as I can tell its not as good as Sundial of the Exiled, which is easily obtained from 25 herioc badges.

Gem wise, my rule of thumb is to have two blue (or blue compatible) gems for your meta, and then gem for +19 SP everywhere else.

I used Glowing Twilight Opals for my blue (purp actually) gems.

Saying haste is meaningless to Frostfire builds due to Icy Veins makes no sense whatsoever. That would be the equivalent of saying that crit is useless to Fireball builds due to having a lower crit multiplier and not having icy veins (thus needing to stack haste, right?) It makes no sense. That's not to say that haste is above crit in rating, because it's not, but the difference between crit and haste is much smaller than the difference between spell power and crit or haste. Crit just happens to be slightly ahead for FFB and haste is slightly ahead for FB. You can easily see this by just removing Icy Veins from a FFB build. Haste doesn't suddenly jump ahead in value.

Yellow sockets are only filled with orange gems when the socket bonus warrants it. For instance, there is no reason to put [Potent Monarch Topaz] in [Gown of the Spell-Weaver], as the socket bonus of 3 crit is (however slightly) outweighed by [Runed Scarlet Ruby]. When you break it down, you see why:

If each point of Spell Power is 1.42 DPS and each point of crit is 1.27 DPS, then 9 spell power and 11 crit is 12.78 and 13.97 DPS respectively, for a total of 26.75. A flat 19 spell power though gives 26.98 DPS. That's just an example -- the socket bonus could be something like spell hit, which you may be capped for, or intellect, or spirit.

Second, while it is the norm now to use [Glowing Twilight Opal], come 3.1, [Purified Twilight Opal] will be the prevalent choice, due to providing 4.4 crit rating. The same is then true for [Sapphire Spellthread] being replaced by [Brilliant Spellthread].

Slight nitpicking but this is 4.84 Crit Rating as you neglected to factor in Blessing of Kings.

But that's only with molten armor. If we are shoehorned into having to use mage armor, wouldn't that (for the most part) be a waste? Especially with higher raid damage, wouldn't the [Glowing Twilight Opal] offer more benefit?

Mage armor is pretty much never a better choice than molten (even if you are going OOM). Even if you did have to switch to mage armor from molten, it would likely be in a situation where you need lots of mana, so having the spirit from the gems would still be worthwhile over stamina. 12 extra stamina is unlikely to ever make the difference between living and dying in a raid encounter (until we get to Najentus take 2).

I have seen nothing so far on ptr to suggest epic gems will be obtainable in 3.1 Also who is to say when epic gems are introduced new cuts for dragon's eyes won't be introduced at the same time as well?

They are adding in Epic gems into 3.1, but not the types you would think. If you complete the daily Dalaran Fishing dailies, the bag reward has a chance of dropping already cut Epic gems called Stormjewels.

Stormjewel - Wowhead Search

Currently these are the only non-JC lvl 80 epic gems in the game.

I've been trying to search for this, but is there any confirmation that we'll actually get epic gems in Ulduar? Or is it just something that some people assume?

The reason I'm asking is that it was thought the epic gems datamined earlier was for JC, but they in fact turned out to be from fishing and unique equipped (the stormjewels)

Does anyone have any link or confirmation for epic gems/patterns in 3.1?

I myself is pretty sure there are no epic obtainable gems yet outside of the fishing ones.

Out of interest has anyone starting compiling a list of Ulduar items we mages should be shooting for. Of course I've had a look through them myself and have a vague idea of what items I'll be aiming toward but I'd like to see some other commentary on this topic.

I'm guessing for those already in BIS there were be little if nothing from Ulduar 10 worth picking up. I am curious however it it will be worthwhile picking up 2xt8 for the new two set bonus. Is it enough to offset the old four set bonus?

I know it's a little early and only half the items have been revealed so far but I'd like to see some discussion on the topic. Trinket in particular seem as though they will be easily replaceable, even by 10 man Ulduar trinkets.

I was taking a look at the Fireball spec Item budget on the first post and I noticed that haste and crit are currently very close. Is there a point when getting more haste is just not worth it, when you are sacraficing far too much crit for it?

I have gotten a few upgrades over the last few weeks, replacing hit gear (the only gear I had) with haste, and even crit gear with haste as well...it's very similar to the gear setup listed on the first post but I had to make some adjustments due to the fact that I will never get the Leash from Maly.

After raiding a week or two with the new haste gear I had acquired (I had also gained quite a bit of SP), I noticed that my DPS hasn't really increased, but to an extent dropped due to RNG possibly (under 10 HS procs in a 2:20 Patchwerk kill is low isn't it?). Has anyone else experienced this?

This makes me wonder about where Fireball's DPS comes from, since haste seems to be a better stat than crit for it, Fireball spec would depend on getting out consistent damage rather than critting for high modifiers and getting a ton of HS procs like FFB?

See my post here, from the last page (though reading through the thread would have lead you to this as well). As for trinkets, from what I remember, the general order is/should be:

Flare of the Heavens [239] (Actual stats: 120 crit, 850 spell power/10sec)
Scale of Fates [226]
Illustration of the Dragon Soul [213]
Living Flame [226]
Eye of the Broodmother [219]
Elemental Focus Stone (Just as [Dying Curse] had too much hit on it, so does this.)

In regards to listing items, we haven't seen the loot table for Yogg-Saron or Algalon. They both then have 10 and 25-man loot tables, and I suspect Yogg-Saron has additional items in its hard modes, where as Algalon only has hard modes. With that in mind (and until 3.1 is released, and Rawr is updated accordingly to finalized patch notes), any list is subject to change, and if you're just looking for a "preview" of items, wowhead or mmo-champion is a good place to start.

So, no, it's almost impossible to compile a list of items to shoot for at this point.

However, BS will get better and pull out of the pack a little becasue the (epic) gems that go in the slots improve. Do you think we will continue to see the professions be an ongoing race in which the leaders keep changing, so the min/maxers keep spending their gold. For me, I have JC & Ench and I think I'll accept the small variance. Especially with gear improviing the difference has a diminishing return as profession bonus becomes a smaller percentage of your overall output.

As noted in the first few pages of this thread, you can run a Frostfire build, make a few minor adjustments, change your spec to Fireball, and end up only slightly behind what I have listed. The necessary item changes aren't nearly as dramatic as they are made out to be. It just happens to be that what is listed comes out on top. It doesn't mean to imply that you can't come awfully close with far less change. See this post for an example.

Fireball values haste slightly over crit due to a lower crit multiplier. Think of it this way: Frostfire has a lower base damage, so your non-crits are going to hit for a very small amount, but your criticals are going to hit for substantially more. You can find all of the actual multipliers listed here. Frostfire's main talent that is competing with Fireball is Ice Shards.

Then take Fireball. With a lower crit multiplier, and higher base damage, your non-criticals are going to hit for more (than Frostfire Bolt), but your criticals are going to scale as well, due to talents (Spell Impact and Torment the Weak). Now, Ice Shards only affects your criticals, and the only other boost Frostfire Bolt has is Piercing Ice. Comparing these talents then, Piercing Ice and Spell Impact cancel each other out, and Torment the Weak competes with Ice Shards.

Thus, because your non-crit Frostfire Bolts are less damage (than Fireball's), and you don't have an additional talent modifying the damage (aside from Piercing Ice), crit takes value over haste. The opposite then is true for Fireball. Torment the Weak is working on both your criticals and your non-criticals, and you don't have as high of a crit multiplier, so haste precedence.

That's not an all-inclusive way to look at it, but it's a fairly simple explanation. It's also disregarding the fact that you're getting 6% more crit on Fireball, and it's disregarding 5% Frost Damage from Rune of Razorice, which is phased out in 3.1 anyway.

IotDS should easily be better than Scale of the Fates for any class. 125 SP +72 Average haste < 200 SP.


BS with all epic gems would be third yes, But JC will still maintain a leader over everything but PTR Tailoring unless a second level of epic gems come out this expansion with no further JC upgrades.

See reply #190 in this thread. Reducing the use ability to 72 average haste is innaccurate and short sighted, and only models it assuming the absolute worst conditions.

I know that when 3.1 is out spirit is a new thing mages need to be carrefull with, but still i dont really know how to calculate your gear for it.

like for expl atm i have [Lost Jewel] but Rawr saids that [Titanium Spellshock Ring] is better.
If you think that i will put my +32 spl pwr gem into [Titanium Spellshock Ring] the changes would be (if i eqpuip the titanium ring)

i lose 37 spirit, i lose 0.03% crit cause of abit less intelect but i gain 21 spl power.
So i see it this way that i have to choose between spl power or crit increase. And tbh im abit confused with all the changes with spirit :s without spirit changes i would easly know what to choose.

So sorry to bother you guys again but what would you chose ? i mean FFB is crit based and is there an amount of cap for it ? i mean i have 35% crit selfbuffed, when should you focus on other stats ?