You're right, 50dps is a drop in the bucket when compared to the 10k bis is calculating at. And with intelligent play I agree that you can use your wards pretty judiciously and make use of IA. Would you get more than a constant 50dps on those fights using wards and shields? Just curious.
Some napkin maths:
According to Rawr in Arcane BiS gear:
3/3 SotM: 90.2 DPS
1 +damage: 1.9 DPS
So 3/3 SotM equals an average of 47.5 SP. Since Incanter's Absorption lasts 10 seconds you'll need an average of 47.5/0.15=320 damage absorbed every 10 seconds, that's 1920 damage every minute.
So when do you absorb more than 1920 damage every minute on average? In nearly every fight if you have a Disc Priest and a Val'Anyr Druid I'd say, in many fights you'll absorb way more than that.
I had a thought that maybe mage armor would be better dps at some point. I don't know if some one can direct me to some post or thread that deals with this. I haven't been able to find any information on it, so basic my thoughts go like this:
The extra mana regen would allow for extra ab spam, which should mean more dps. With 26k mana raid buffed, there's already a lot of room for extra ab spam. My crit comes to almost ~47% with molten, which I thought was a little excessive. To try and test it, I tried using the two different armors on the same fight (after a wipe). It came up mage armor was better, but the numbers didn't exactly add up right either, so I'm not sure. I realise it also kind of depends on the fight lengths as well.
Thanks to any one who has input on this, it's been driving me crazy =)
I had a thought that maybe mage armor would be better dps at some point. I don't know if some one can direct me to some post or thread that deals with this. I haven't been able to find any information on it, so basic my thoughts go like this:
The extra mana regen would allow for extra ab spam, which should mean more dps. With 26k mana raid buffed, there's already a lot of room for extra ab spam. My crit comes to almost ~47% with molten, which I thought was a little excessive. To try and test it, I tried using the two different armors on the same fight (after a wipe). It came up mage armor was better, but the numbers didn't exactly add up right either, so I'm not sure. I realise it also kind of depends on the fight lengths as well.
Thanks to any one who has input on this, it's been driving me crazy =)
Not only is the additional DPS you gain from the gained mana quite low (DPS/DPM-wise going from a ABSpamXMBAM to ABSpam only is horribly inefficient) but Molten Armor in general has been better since the change to being spirit-based, especially when glyphed and having 2T9 (Mage Armor glyph and 2T9 with Mage Armor are next to useless because regeneration doesn't go over 100%).
Going by Rawr in BiS Arcane gear you get ~150 DPS from Mage Armor and ~800 DPS from Molten Armor.
I recently realized that I was wasting my IV/Scale by casting it on top of heroism, which put me beyond the GCD. So now, I use Scale and/or IV outside of heroism.
I have been looking through this thread to find out just how much haste is going to push me over this limit during heroism, but haven't come accross a definte figure. Can someone help me? I also have the Scale of Fates.
Something to think about with POM is that it also increase the crit-rate of the next spell with 30% (assuming you don't have a clearcast proc already). Hence if you want to use POM as a damage cooldown and not save it for movement, it's best to use it at 3 or 4 stacks of AB, since the extra 30% crit gives the most bonus damage at this point.
If not required to save it for movement, I like to use POM on the 4th AB cast if Mbarr hasn't procced yet. The GCD incurred is just enough time to see the Mbarr buff come up should the 4th (instant) AB proc it.
Right well after reading around its come to my attention that some mages are using Incanter's Absorption. I was just wondering how people are going around this, eg do i need a priest to constantly stack a shield on me or should i be looking to use one of my own shields. I was also wondering were the mages that are using this talent are taking the talents from. i can in a way understand taking them from both range or Spirit but am just curious. Just looking for some advice as arcane builds can be changed so easily it seems.
Also am i right in thinking that the rotation of Arcane Blastx4 followed by a Missile Barrage then rinse and repeat is the best rotation and only using Arcane Barrage if no proc.
The vast majority of fights right now involve some sort of frost or fire damage making the improved wards trigger IA as well as being excellent mana returns for only a couple of points on the way to IV in the frost tree.
The vast majority of fights right now involve some sort of frost or fire damage making the improved wards trigger IA as well as being excellent mana returns for only a couple of points on the way to IV in the frost tree.
Is it really a dps gain to use a gcd for a fire/frost ward, and then use the extra mana for additional AB spam? Or do you use the wards to help with survial, and the extra mana you get is just a bonus?
It's not really a DPS gain per se as it's still only a 30% chance to gain mana back. Should you prioritise it over DPS? Of course not. I personally use it to soak some damage on intense healing fights (taking MA for the same reason) and any mana return is simply a nice bonus. If you time it within phase transitions and forced movement situations, then the DPS loss from that GCD is minimised. As with all situational talents and filler points you take it if you think it will benefit you.
The Mage theme song.
<+icesurfer> this is the fucking security industry; if you want ethics, join the Red Cross
Hey. New respec from FFB. Doing a lot more dps now that I know what to stack (bye crit, nice to know ya), but I've been (apparently mistakenly) using PoM rather than AP. A quick glance through this thread could tell a complete idiot that one uses AP with IV.
My question is this: is the only time to use PoM when your AB stack is about to fall off due to movement?
My question is this: is there ever a use for PoM or can I take it off my cast bar entirely?
Read through the last couple of pages for a more in depth discussion on the topic, but the general conclusion (and correct me if I go off on this matter) is that "yes, it can be useful - albeit marginally."
As near as I can tell there are essentially two uses for PoM.
#1 - Use PoM early and as soon as it's available to cast again. Essentially, a PoM arc blast saves roughly 1-2 seconds from your rotation. If used as much as possible, in a 5 minute fight - you've saved 5-6 seconds from an absolutely optimal rotation (i.e. no interrupts to the rotation and no running). This isn't a big difference obviously (nor is it entirely likely); however, it may become a bigger difference in longer fights.
#2 - Save PoM for times when you are running. Essentially, you would save PoM until such time as you would need to run away from something (such as standing fire) or you are running to something (such as Icehowl after charge). This method has the added benefit of increasing (or at least sustaining) your dps while on the move. However, you risk not using your PoM as often as you could because you may not encounter something which requires you to move in every encounter (or at least not as often as you would need to in order to use PoM as often as you possibly can).
My personal preference is strategy one for the very reason stated at the very end of strategy two. The benefit of using PoM as often as possible gets exaggerated because of the Arcane Potency proc. Additionally, with the first strategy (because it is optimal to use PoM on the 4th arc blast) you can control when you use PoM. In the end though, the difference between the two strategies may be so minimal as to suggest a third strategy which is, essentially, "It depends on the encounter." If you'll move a lot, save the PoM for movement time. If not, use as often as possible.
Hey. New respec from FFB. Doing a lot more dps now that I know what to stack (bye crit, nice to know ya), but I've been (apparently mistakenly) using PoM rather than AP. A quick glance through this thread could tell a complete idiot that one uses AP with IV.
My question is this: is the only time to use PoM when your AB stack is about to fall off due to movement?
A PoM - AB macro is nice if you have to move, it's certainly much more dps than arcane barrage. If I don't have to move, personally I use it as my fourth AB in the rotation if I don't have missile barrage - the crit bonus will mean more on the fourth application, and the global cooldown means you have time to react to a missile barrage proc.
I am quite certain that using it in that way is a much smaller dps boost than using it when you have to move though
EDIT: The previous reply was much more in-depth, it wasn't there when I started typing this
The vast majority of fights right now involve some sort of frost or fire damage making the improved wards trigger IA as well as being excellent mana returns for only a couple of points on the way to IV in the frost tree.
Well iv just been trying with a Disc Priest to keep a shield on me as much as posible, this is definatly the most effective way of using IA, in a Razorscale test i gained around 500-1000 Spell power not sure how much but that was definaly a good increase for 10 seconds. In a fight such as Anub were there is lots of raid damage and everyone is taking damage the use of these shields is so valuable to the raid and will also increase DPS.
The use of our Wards imo will not be effective to break a rotation to pop a ward on the chance that im going to take damage.
The use of our Wards imo will not be effective to break a rotation to pop a ward on the chance that im going to take damage.
The most effective method of using a Ward, I believe, is either just before the encounter begins or after you've been targeted. For example of the later event, I would point to the fire on Gormok/Razorscale/Jarraxxus. In all of those instances, you will be targeted for the fire and will undoubtedly take some damage regardless of if you move immediately. If you take the time to pop a ward before moving out of the fire, that would result in a garaunteed dps increase and minimal loss of dps time (since it's incorporated into the dps time loss necessary to move out of the fire anyways).
A gray matter may exist in a situation where you know for sure that you are about to take on a nuke which will do more than 1950 damage from a single nuke. In that situation, are you better off interrupting your rotation to pop a ward in return for a garaunteed 195 SP increase for the next 10 seconds?
I can't seem to find the 3.2.2 scaling values. I did a search, and I've looked through the last 20 pages of posts. Would you please repost them? Thanks
A PoM - AB macro is nice if you have to move, it's certainly much more dps than arcane barrage. If I don't have to move, personally I use it as my fourth AB in the rotation if I don't have missile barrage - the crit bonus will mean more on the fourth application, and the global cooldown means you have time to react to a missile barrage proc.
I am quite certain that using it in that way is a much smaller dps boost than using it when you have to move though
EDIT: The previous reply was much more in-depth, it wasn't there when I started typing this
The PoM buff is consumed separately from the arcane potency buff. If you really wanted to get the most mileage out of the crit buff, you could cast PoM immediately following the 4th arcane blast with MBAM up. This would allow your 4stack MBAM to consume the +30% crit and save the cast time reduction of the PoM for the 1st stack of arcane blast. It's tricky to weave in, but not impossible. You can also add +30% crit to the first cast in a fight simply by casting PoM and clicking it off since the arcane potency buff persists indefinitely.
Regardless of how you use it, unless you're planning on using it for movement utility, I wouldn't wait too long for 'perfect conditions' though, since you're going to water down the dps boost from PoM if you don't keep it on cooldown.
Some of my fellow mages in my guild and I discussed the possibility for reaching the hastecap under certain situations e.g. Icy Veins+Bloodlust, with the upcomming effects of the 2 part tier 10 bonus and the changes to the black magic enchant. I made some calculations in matlab (software used for computing all kinds of stuff). For those of you who use it, here it is:
format short
clear all %just some matlab stuff
close all
myhaste=856; %you personal hasterating, change this number to get your table
AB=2.5; %arcane blast initial cast time
n=5; %the number of situations we're looking at
ABcast=zeros(5,n,700); %matrix that will contain information
% increase in castspeed from different buffs
totem=1.05; %spellhaste totem
moonkin=1.03; %the 3% raidhaste
pot=500; %potion of speed
set2=1.12; %the t10 2set bonus
BM=250; %black magic enchant
BL=1.3; %bloodlust
IV=1.2; %icy veins
talents=1.06; %talents
% probabilty table for MBarr procs
mb=zeros(6,1);
mb(1)=0.8704;
mb(2)=0.0519;
mb(3)=0.0311;
mb(4)=0.0186;
mb(5)=0.0112;
%stating what range of hasteratings we want to look at
hastemin=400;
hastemax=1200;
min1=hastemin-1;
%some empty vectors used for plotting later
cast=zeros(701,1);
castBL=zeros(701,1);
castBLIV=zeros(701,1);
castIVpot=zeros(701,1);
one=ones(hastemax-hastemin+1,1);
%index different situations
factor=[1;BL;(BL*IV);(BL);(IV)];
for HR=hastemin:hastemax
for k=1:n %loop for looking at different situations
HRl=HR;
if k==4 %adding 500 hasterating from pot
HRl=HR+500; %if we are looking at situation
elseif k==5 %4 or 5.
HRl=HR+500;
end
gear=((HRl/3279)+1); %haste rating haste gains
basef=1/(talents*gear*totem*moonkin*factor(k)); %total casttime reduction without cd's
ABbasic=AB*basef; %casttime for AB
basef=1/(talents*gear*totem*moonkin*factor(k)*set2);
AB2set=AB*basef; %casttime for AB with 2setbonus
gear=(((HRl+250)/3279)+1); %haste rating haste gains with black magic
basef=1/(talents*gear*totem*moonkin*factor(k)*set2); %total casttime reduction without cd's
AB2setBM=AB*basef; %casttime for AB with 2setbonus and Black Magic proc
ABcast(1,k,HR-min1)=ABbasic; %saving the above values in the matrix
ABcast(2,k,HR-min1)=AB2set;
ABcast(3,k,HR-min1)=AB2setBM;
casts=ceil(5/AB2set)-1; %the number of AB's you can cast having the buff from 2set bonus
castsBM=ceil(5/AB2setBM)-1; %the number of AB's you can cast having the buff from 2set bonus and black magic
if casts<castsBM
change=1; %lets us know if there is a difference in number of casts having the 2setbuff
end %from having both2set and black magic
ABcast(4,k,HR-min1)=casts;
%creating a vector containing the uptime of buff for the
%different rotations in the vector 'mb' earlier.
upt=zeros(6,1);
for l=1:5
upt(l)=((1+casts)*100)/(l+4);
if upt(l)>100
upt(l)=100;
end
end
totupt2set=sum(upt.*mb); %multiplying the values of mb and upt vectors
if totupt2set>100 %making sure we don't get above 100% uptime
totupt2set=100;
end
ABcast(5,k,HR-min1)=totupt2set; %adding uptime information in the matrix ABcast
end
%saving the information from the matrix into vectors for the different
cast(HR-399)=ABcast(3,1,HR-min1);
castBL(HR-399)=ABcast(3,2,HR-min1);
castBLIV(HR-399)=ABcast(3,3,HR-min1);
castIVpot(HR-399)=ABcast(3,5,HR-min1);
castnoBM(HR-399)=ABcast(2,1,HR-min1);
castnoBMBL(HR-399)=ABcast(2,2,HR-min1);
castnoBMBLIV(HR-399)=ABcast(2,3,HR-min1);
castnoBMIVpot(HR-399)=ABcast(2,5,HR-min1);
end
disp(' no cooldowns BL BL+IV BL+pot IV+pot')
disp('AB cast')
disp('AB cast,2set')
disp('AB cast,2set,BM')
disp('ABs cast with 2set')
disp('2set uptime')
ABcast(:,:,myhaste-min1) %shows the table for your haste rating
hasterating=(hastemin:1:hastemax); %making a vector for the values of hasteerating, spaced 1 apart from 400 to 1100
hold on
plot(hasterating,cast)
plot(hasterating,castBL)
plot(hasterating,castBLIV)
plot(hasterating,castIVpot)
plot(hasterating,one,'-r')
axis([hastemin hastemax 0.8 1.8])
xlabel('hasterating')
title('AB and Mbarr cast times with 2setbonus and Black Magic')
legend('No cooldowns','Bloodlust','Icy veins+speed potion,','Bloodlust+Icy veins');
figure
hold on
plot(hasterating,castnoBM)
plot(hasterating,castnoBMBL)
plot(hasterating,castnoBMBLIV)
plot(hasterating,castnoBMIVpot)
plot(hasterating,one,'-r')
axis([hastemin hastemax 0.8 1.8])
xlabel('hasterating')
title('AB and Mbarr cast times with 2setbonus')
legend('No cooldowns','Bloodlust','Icy veins+speed potion,','Bloodlust+Icy veins');
What it's supposed to do is to give information about your cast times and uptime of the 2 set bonus buff for your specific hasterating. I've also plotted the values to give these graphs:
I hope some will find it useful. I've done my best to check that the calculations are correct, but feedback is much welcome.
edit:
changed the code for easier changing of the range of hastevalues.
changed the 2 part t10 bonus value from 1.13 to 1.12 and updated the graphs Thanks to Magealexis for noticing.
This Black Magic enchant you talk about, iv very curious to learn more. I basically googled it and found the following.
"Enchant Weapon - Black Magic
5 sec cast
Tools:
Runed Titanium Rod
Reagents:
Greater Cosmic Essence (6), Dream Shard (6), Abyss Crystal (6)
Permanently enchant a melee weapon to cause your damaging spells to sometimes inflict a painful curse. Requires a level 60 or higher item."
I dont see how it can increase haste from that.
Also im a big fan of haste, i love the stat but how much haste is needed to reach the Global cooldown. Surely it can not be that a haste score of around 600 will reach this with IV and Bloodlust up.
This Black Magic enchant you talk about, iv very curious to learn more. I basically googled it and found the following.
"Enchant Weapon - Black Magic
5 sec cast
Tools:
Runed Titanium Rod
Reagents:
Greater Cosmic Essence (6), Dream Shard (6), Abyss Crystal (6)
Permanently enchant a melee weapon to cause your damaging spells to sometimes inflict a painful curse. Requires a level 60 or higher item."
I dont see how it can increase haste from that.
Also im a big fan of haste, i love the stat but how much haste is needed to reach the Global cooldown. Surely it can not be that a haste score of around 600 will reach this with IV and Bloodlust up.
Enchant Weapon - Black Magic: This enchantment now sometimes increases haste rating for the caster rather than inflicting the caster’s target with a damage-over-time effect. It is also now triggered by landing any harmful spell rather than inflicting damage with a spell.
It is in the PTR Notes. It's for 3.3, currently all that is being talked about with it being a big change is theorycrafting.
This Black Magic enchant you talk about, iv very curious to learn more. I basically googled it and found the following.
"Enchant Weapon - Black Magic
5 sec cast
Tools:
Runed Titanium Rod
Reagents:
Greater Cosmic Essence (6), Dream Shard (6), Abyss Crystal (6)
Permanently enchant a melee weapon to cause your damaging spells to sometimes inflict a painful curse. Requires a level 60 or higher item."
I dont see how it can increase haste from that.
Also im a big fan of haste, i love the stat but how much haste is needed to reach the Global cooldown. Surely it can not be that a haste score of around 600 will reach this with IV and Bloodlust up.
As has already been noted, with 3.3 Black Magic grants haste.
Also, the graph you're referring to-where 600 haste puts you at the GCD has all the following buffs-Black Magic, 2 piece t10, Bloodlust and Icy Veins.
Edit: and surely it can be that the gcd is reached at 600 haste with those buffs, as the math seems to indicate quite clearly. (Though to be fair my math skills aren't the best-but perusing the formula it seemed correct. No doubt someone better than I-like the person who did those graphs, will note and correct it if there is any issue with those calculations).
I see somewhere people saying NOT to use arcane barrage at ALL unless you're moving or dumping your stacks...
however, I see lots of mages hitting it after MBAM... i thought this was INCORRECT
what is the right thing to do?
On a boss, using ABarr is time not spent building up your AB stack, and with todays spellcofficient it will result in a loss in dps. However, in situations where you dealing with targets that will die within seconds, it might be usefull to use ABarr after Mbarr, since you might not have time to cast AB. Note that ABarr have a flighttime aswell, so it might not hit your target in time, even though it is instant.
On a boss, using ABarr is time not spent building up your AB stack, and with todays spellcofficient it will result in a loss in dps. However, in situations where you dealing with targets that will die within seconds, it might be usefull to use ABarr after Mbarr, since you might not have time to cast AB. Note that ABarr have a flighttime aswell, so it might not hit your target in time, even though it is instant.
Yeah I use it to finish off in heroics etc all the time... but I see mages doing it on bosses and I don't get why
Yeah I use it to finish off in heroics etc all the time... but I see mages doing it on bosses and I don't get why
People might be (misguidedly) using it because of the old behaviour of the ABlast buff. It apparently used to be that the buff remained until after the last arcane missile fired, so one could 'clip' the last missile with an ABarr with the full ABlast stacked buff. This has been fixed, however (and quite a while ago, I think) and doing it is a DPS loss. The ABlast buff now disappears as soon as you start channelling AM.
Only time i use it is when I have been digging pretty deep for a MBarr proc, and might need to move for incoming damage. It is also a generator of the MBarr proc, so having to move and giving myself a shot at another proc is nice.