The Arcane thread - Page 133

Dusoka · 04/22/09, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by Korey

Just felt the need to quote this post again, since it's buried way back. I've found it very useful for making Arcane Stability decisions, even now. Points are wasted if you deviate from the below.

Without concentration aura: 1, 3, 5
With concentration aura: 2, 4

These numbers aren't considering imp conc aura though. With imp conc, the pally is giving 50% coverage, so the 1 3 become the equivalent of 3 5. In a 25 man setting, there's no reason to have more than 3 in my eyes.

diag · 04/22/09, 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by alia

Apparently, [Spark of Hope] does indeed drop your base mana cost, so an AB 3 stack costs noticeably less than without using the trinket edit: roughly 450 mana less (Thread on Subcreation).

Does it mean it reduces mana cost of AB of all stacks by 16%(42/261) ?

manly · 04/23/09, 2:42 AM

Originally Posted by diag

Does it mean it reduces mana cost of AB of all stacks by 16%(42/261) ?

From the first post:

ab_mana_cost = rounddown( round(base_mana_cost [* arcane_focus] [* elemental_precision]) * (1 + ab_stacks * 2 [+ arcane_power] [+ 2pct5]) )

it affects either base_mana_cost - trinket_mana_redux or round(base_mana_cost [* arcane_focus] [* elemental_precision]) - trinket_mana_redux. In other words, the mana cost reduction is applied 7 times on a 3 stack AB.

EExx · 04/23/09, 3:28 AM

Take a look at my gear please. on armory - looks like im frost on it... when im arcane spell dmg goes To 2191 and crit is 17%

The World of Warcraft Armory

Okay heres my question/problem

Most fights im doing the most DPS, but im not top on dmg and im not oom, im always casting except for evocate which i usualy will use the last tick of my veins or bloodlust with.

Questions:
1) why is my dps higher than everyones but my dmg not on top
2) Do i have too much haste?
3) In ur guilds raids for ulduar, are hunters warlocks and rogues above mages?

Now i know TTW/FB spec is said to be the highest dps spec for raiding... but i find that on fights like General Vezax the amount of controlled dmg i can spit out when in the cloud is going to be far better than fire, and the movment in some of the other fights as well. my dps was about 10k on him and that was with wanding whenever i wasnt in a buff cloud.

If i spec TTW/FB will my dps be more competitive with the other classes?

you know i didnt raid during BC, but PREBC i was doing more dmg as fire than any mage i have heard or seen, and i remember looking at dmg meters on this forum and seeeing that i would do more than everyone, i know im not a terrrible player... but maybe im missing something.

Selun · 04/23/09, 3:38 AM

The last reset I got to Yogg-Saron in 10man and to Mimiron in 25man and pushback is and is not a problem so to speak.

Razorscale - rng dependant this being a case where it helps
Ignis - none
XT002 - none
Kologarn - only 1 hit every 25-30 sec or so
Iron Council - very low pushback (dmg aura doesn't pushback the spells)
Auriaya - high pushback fight
Hodir - no need for pushback protection
Thorim - in arena maybe helps a little but depending on tactic might be proven useless to have pushback protection
Freya - minor to none again quite rng dependant
Mimiron - for phase2 and phase4 pushback is a very good thing to have (alot of pushback in those phases)
General Vezax - pushback is not an issue (I only done 10man)
Yogg-Saron - pushback is a very good thing to be immune to (I only got to him in 10man)

From what I experienced, to me it looks like you have 3 bosses where your pushback protection talents kick in and helps your dps alot. Rest of them are either RNG hits or they simply don't have aoe that pushback. It happens that those bosses that require pushback protection are also "final bosses" and are a tad more difficult than the other encounters where you don't need pushback protection, so it gets to a 50-50 decision of taking 100% immunity or not at all, for me at least.

ceeth · 04/23/09, 6:03 AM

bad post

Isambard · 04/23/09, 7:40 AM

Originally Posted by EExx

Okay heres my question/problem

Most fights im doing the most DPS, but im not top on dmg and im not oom, im always casting except for evocate which i usualy will use the last tick of my veins or bloodlust with.

Questions:
1) why is my dps higher than everyones but my dmg not on top
2) Do i have too much haste?
3) In ur guilds raids for ulduar, are hunters warlocks and rogues above mages?

The way that Recount and WWS measure dps flatters specs without dot that need to pause from time to time (evocation). The only valid measure of your contribution to a fight is total damage, not dps. In WWS, you can select average dps which divides total damage by fight duration (rather than dps time) and get a better comparative measure with other classes. Dps is really only very useful when comparing the same classes and specs (and the same fights, including fight length). It is most useful as a convenient guide to your own performance from one week to the next or when evaluating gear with Rawr and similar tools.

Deanna · 04/23/09, 9:36 AM

Originally Posted by EExx

Take a look at my gear please. on armory - looks like im frost on it... when im arcane spell dmg goes To 2191 and crit is 17%

The World of Warcraft Armory

Okay heres my question/problem

Most fights im doing the most DPS, but im not top on dmg and im not oom, im always casting except for evocate which i usualy will use the last tick of my veins or bloodlust with.

Questions:
1) why is my dps higher than everyones but my dmg not on top
2) Do i have too much haste?
3) In ur guilds raids for ulduar, are hunters warlocks and rogues above mages?

Now i know TTW/FB spec is said to be the highest dps spec for raiding... but i find that on fights like General Vezax the amount of controlled dmg i can spit out when in the cloud is going to be far better than fire, and the movment in some of the other fights as well. my dps was about 10k on him and that was with wanding whenever i wasnt in a buff cloud.

If i spec TTW/FB will my dps be more competitive with the other classes?

you know i didnt raid during BC, but PREBC i was doing more dmg as fire than any mage i have heard or seen, and i remember looking at dmg meters on this forum and seeeing that i would do more than everyone, i know im not a terrrible player... but maybe im missing something.

I am at a loss with my mage. I have good gear. I seem to be appropriately glyphed, gemmed and enchanted. I have tried to follow the rotation suggested for arcane and for fire yet I am performing poorly.

The World of Warcraft Armory

I don't understand why I am getting such poor dps and damage as the other highest dps mages in my guild. We are specced identically. We should be getting similar numbers yet we arent. When we attack the dummy we are close but in a boss fight, specifically within ulduar, I am very low. Any feedback on what I need to do differently would be extremely welcome.

madgazza · 04/23/09, 9:58 AM

What stage are we at with working out a BiS set with current known Ulduar gear?
Ive having real trouble, for one thing, rawr doesnt work on my mac... but also, i think it totally depends on how hard the hard modes are.

The issue of prioritizing spirit, especially since 3.1 is so complicated, because the crit it provides may be totally void if we have to switch to mage armor on certain longer hard mode fights anyway.
My best guess is 2 pieces of T7 and 2 pieces of T8 will be BiS, but which ones?

Furthermore, trinket selection is also quite puzzling, scale of fates is immediately notable as an excellent trinket, but if heroism/bloddust and icy veins manage to take your AB cast time to very close to 1 second, and scale of fates pushes it over, is it BiS?
I love having to work all this out, but it really is confusing at the moment!

Elfaba · 04/23/09, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Deanna

I don't understand why I am getting such poor dps and damage as the other highest dps mages in my guild. We are specced identically. We should be getting similar numbers yet we arent. When we attack the dummy we are close but in a boss fight, specifically within ulduar, I am very low. Any feedback on what I need to do differently would be extremely welcome.

I have, in the past, expereinced the same situation.

First, when you compare output on the target dummies, you need to make sure that you run your comparison for an extended period of time. Not just one cycle of mana. The more time and data, the less the RNG screws with your comparison. So, a full 6-10 minutes should get you a better static picture.

The next issue comes from (and I learned this the hard way), comes from understanding the network connection. Make sure you are using Quartz or some other casting bar mod that shows you the latency of your connection. You need to time your spells so you are casting a spell when the casting bar hits the red area. You can gain significant DPS by anticpiating the timing of your rotation. There is an inherent lag between your spell finishes and when you see that on your screen and then again when you release your key and the server starts your next spell.

The next major consideration is your graphics card. Again, if you are not running at peak performance, then the screen will have a delay in telling you when to cast your spell.

Assuming all other factors are equal, you can raise your DPS 500-1000 pts by making sure your spells are going off fast enough.

One side note - I'm not sure why you are choosing to be over hit capped (and with gems nonetheless). You can lower your hit rating and gain some additional Spellpower.

Dahkeus · 04/23/09, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Elfaba

One side note - I'm not sure why you are choosing to be over hit capped (and with gems nonetheless). You can lower your hit rating and gain some additional Spellpower.

The high proc damage of Dying Curse makes it a strong trinket, even when you don't get much advantage from the +hit it provides. Personally, my mage is over hit cap a bit because of this (I've played with different options in RAWR), but I still get the best dps from being over capped with Dying Curse. Additionally, the pressence or lack thereof a shadow priest/boomkin would make him actually 5 under hit cap. Finally, he may simply not have any better options available to make dropping hit worth the switch.

Ehooee · 04/23/09, 1:46 PM

Maybee the other 2 better trinkets haven't dropped yet, or unlucky roles.

Rather than nitpicking, all the advice about connection is true. The biggest DPS factor (I know its my problem too) is leaving time in between casts or accidently cutting off Arcane Missiles because I typed my next spell too soon.

If you find you are at the end of a fight and mana wasn't an issue or you are never using evoc, you have an opportunity to up your dps by buring more Arcane Blasts.

Also, with the change to PoM I almost stopped using it, then I remember the 30% crit buff, so I now make sure I use it all the time.

BiS gear, I know there is one kicking around here already, i was looking at it the other day.

Swindley · 04/23/09, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Elfaba

The next issue comes from (and I learned this the hard way), comes from understanding the network connection. Make sure you are using Quartz or some other casting bar mod that shows you the latency of your connection. You need to time your spells so you are casting a spell when the casting bar hits the red area. You can gain significant DPS by anticpiating the timing of your rotation. There is an inherent lag between your spell finishes and when you see that on your screen and then again when you release your key and the server starts your next spell.

I advice against this, except for channeled spells. Spamming your buttons when nearing end of cast seems to often produce better results, we already discussed it here a few days ago. Trying to time spells also might take your focus off from important things, like watching for fires, or planning 1 spell ahead, watching procs etc.

Elfaba · 04/23/09, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by Swindley

I advice against this, except for channeled spells. Spamming your buttons when nearing end of cast seems to often produce better results, we already discussed it here a few days ago. Trying to time spells also might take your focus off from important things, like watching for fires, or planning 1 spell ahead, watching procs etc.

Let me clarify. Anticipating your spell instead of waiting for the casting bar to finish completely.

Spamming will certainly come closer and certainly will produce better results than the imperfect timing, but either are better than waiting for the Blizzard cast bar to finish before sending your request.

Swindley · 04/23/09, 3:10 PM

Originally Posted by Elfaba

Let me clarify. Anticipating your spell instead of waiting for the casting bar to finish completely.

Spamming will certainly come closer and certainly will produce better results than the imperfect timing, but either are better than waiting for the Blizzard cast bar to finish before sending your request.

Indeed and I suspect this is a major reason some people are failing when claiming good rotations and they have good gear.
That and handling movement badly.
Something to note if you have someone majorly failing and cannot figure out why.