The Arcane thread - Page 139

Manastealer · 05/05/09, 4:35 AM

I've actually been fooling around with my own Incanter Build thats 61/3/7 and you can just check my armory if you'd like to see it. I haven't had a chance to put into action yet but fooling around 10man uldaur it seems to working fine, I dropped all the points out of Student of the Mind, because spirit still isn't a high value stat in my book and as long as raidbuffed you have 430 spirit your good. So yeah just a little build I based off of others, etc.

dersleeper · 05/05/09, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Heaven

I've been looking for an addon to track my current spd in game and the only one I found is LiveDamage. It is s small line of text which shows your SPD for several schools. I dragged it just above my cast bar so it is always in close visible range.

Did you make any test regarding the Incanter's Absorption Buff and how much spellpower it gives exactly?
During raids I noticed that I always had only 1 buff active on me (tested during the Thorim encounter with a stolen shield from one of the evokers while standing close to the electric orbs in the arena part, which does about 2000 damage a tick) but didn't think of checking my actual spell power number.
So I want to test it tonight and I was wondering what is the best way to test it:
-Find a priest
-Get Power Word: Shield.
-Start duel
-Get Shadow Word: Pain
-Look how spell power changes every 3 seconds. The Buff should renew with every SW:P tick (as long as PW:S is up):
a) SP goes up with every tick
b) SP stays about the same

Am I forgetting something (obvious) or would that be the way to test it?

Selun · 05/05/09, 10:51 AM

Well given how Incanter's Absorption works, every hit absorbed will turn into SP for 10 seconds, so in your example your spellpower will go up until 3rd tick (9 sec) then drop for 2 seconds and up again at 4th tick, with a SW:P and a shield being kept constant your SP will stay constant at 3ticks worth of dmg.

I think at the beginning of beta it used to be a different buff for every dmg event, but now it got stealthed into 1 buff only that retains the behaviour of how it worked on beta. Every hit creates a buff that lasts for 10 seconds, now them being stealthed into 1 it will be as if the buff would get refreshed with every subsequent hit, but the duration you see as being refreshed it's the duration of the last hit that got absorbed.

Heaven · 05/05/09, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by dersleeper

Did you make any test regarding the Incanter's Absorption Buff and how much spellpower it gives exactly?
During raids I noticed that I always had only 1 buff active on me (tested during the Thorim encounter with a stolen shield from one of the evokers while standing close to the electric orbs in the arena part, which does about 2000 damage a tick) but didn't think of checking my actual spell power number.

I think the spellpower value changes with every tick absorbed and the buff duration is refreshed. I noticed that on Mimiron during phases 2 and 3, when he casts fire aoe which also leaves a dot. Spellpower was increasing with every tick of this dot, and the buff duration was refreshed. However, as the buff was fading, the spellpower was also going down in several steps. So, it appears that every single tick of IA has its own duriation which is tracked individually. It would be nice to have it tested with the method you suggested.

P.S. Exactly as Selun explained above.

Caspien · 05/05/09, 11:02 AM

Originally Posted by Selun

For me Flare of Heavens is BiS togheter with the Pandora's Plea while Scale of Fates comes in 3rd. In the current version Rawr has the item ID from wowhead and also it's effect isn't recognized when loaded from armory so I just added in the 850 SP/10 sec with 10% proc chance on spellcast (just like Sundial) and it seems to be the best.

My Rawr Optimizer shown me this set with a score of 6950.76:

[Flare of the Heavens] the item can be seen on armory since in wowhead it's not updated.

NOTE: the Current description for those that can not access the armory (or are too lazy to do so) is this:

Flare of the Heavens
Binds when picked up
Unique
Trinket
Requires Level 80
Equip: Improves critical strike rating by 120
Equip: Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 850 for 10 sec.

If the current description is correct (they've been wrong occasionally), then yes, I'd tend to agree somewhat.

However, if they opt to change it back to the way it was, we (as arcane mages) have no real DoTs (and that's what is classified as 'periodic damage') to proc the bonus... so the only real thing you'd be using it for, is the 95crit rating.

Blizzard IS known to flip/flop on a whim, so who knows what the final result will be. My guess is, they'll 'fix' it.. so it applies to all spells cast, including heals... so we have to fight with healers for trinkets even more-so than we do now.

Right now, I'm producing a higher number with RAWR using JUST non-hard mode gear, Alliance.

Only assumptions I'm making with this are A.) no JC only gems B.) no engineering C.) Enchanting active (for the ring enchants) and D.) Tailoring active, for new lightweave on cloak E.) No application of Fishing gems yet.

Remember, this is NON-HARDMODE:

Head [Collar of the Wyrmhunter] + [Chaotic Skyflare Diamond] + [Purified Twilight Opal]
Neck [Pendant of the Shallow Grave] + [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
Shoulders [Conqueror's Kirin Tor Shoulderpads] + [Reckless Monarch Topaz]
Chest [Conqueror's Kirin Tor Tunic] + 2x [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
Waist [Leash of Heedless Magic] + [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
Legs [Conqueror's Kirin Tor Leggings] +2x [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
Feet [Spellslinger's Slippers] + [Purified Twilight Opal] + [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
Wrist [Unsullied Cuffs] + [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
Hands [Conqueror's Kirin Tor Gauntlets] + [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
Finger1 [Signet of Manifested Pain]
Finger2 [Pyrelight Circle]
Trinket1 [Pandora's Plea]
Trinket2 [Scale of Fates]
Back [Pennant Cloak] + [Runed Scarlet Ruby]
MainHand [Soulscribe]
OffHand [Ironmender]
Ranged [Scepter of Lost Souls]

Stamina: 1393
Intellect: 1680
Spirit: 675
Armor: 2202
Health: 20713
Mana: 28188
Crit Rate: 53.36%
812.25 Crit Rating

Hit Rate: 14.20%
189 Hit Rating
Arcane 100.00%
Fire 97.20% (74 hit rating to cap)
Frost 97.20% (74 hit rating to cap)

Spell Penetration: 0
Casting Speed: 1.358268
603 Haste Rating

Arcane Damage: 3083
Fire Damage: 3083
Frost Damage: 3083
MP5: 109
Mana Regen: 924
Mana Regen in 5SR: 692
Mana Regen Drinking: 3084

Health Regen: 0
Health Regen Eating: 2605

Score: 6995.40
Dps: 6993.33
Tps: 3964.12
Status: Score: 6995.40, Dps: 6993.33, Survivability: 2.07
Sequence:
Disabled

Spell Cycles:
Molten Armor
Evocation: 2.00x
Mana Gem: 3.00x
AB3AM: 203.22 sec (6103.84 dps, 162.41 mps, 3399.22 tps)
Heroism+AB3AM: 20.00 sec (7842.09 dps, 247.31 mps, 4358.19 tps)
Heroism+Icy Veins+Scale of Fates+AB3AM: 5.00 sec (10280.70 dps, 366.18 mps, 5700.74 tps)
Arcane Power+ABSpam3MBAM: 5.00 sec (7879.55 dps, 402.60 mps, 4390.71 tps)
Arcane Power+Scale of Fates+ABSpam3MBAM: 8.00 sec (8717.73 dps, 459.63 mps, 4853.45 tps)
Icy Veins+Arcane Power+Scale of Fates+ABSpam3MBAM: 17.00 sec (10358.08 dps, 571.18 mps, 5758.53 tps)
Heroism+Icy Veins+Arcane Power+Scale of Fates+AB3AM: 7.32 sec (12336.84 dps, 425.31 mps, 6835.79 tps)
Heroism+Icy Veins+Arcane Power+Scale of Fates+ABSpam3MBAM: 7.68 sec (13223.86 dps, 765.76 mps, 7337.32 tps)
Icy Veins+Arcane Power+Scale of Fates+Potion of Speed+ABSpam3MBAM: 15.00 sec (11482.38 dps, 647.57 mps, 6378.35 tps)

Minimum Range: 36.00
Threat Reduction: 43.32%

semata · 05/05/09, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by Caspien

I question the reasoning behind the choice of this trinket, honestly. Assuming Blizzard's description is correct (they've been wrong occasionally), what 'periodic' damage are you hoping will proc this?

Did you even read the post you quoted? Selun said that the wowhead link (which I assume is where you got 'periodic' from) isn't updated. Assuming Blizzard's description is correct,

Originally Posted by WoW Armory

Equip: Your harmful spells have a chance to increase your spell power by 850 for 10 sec.

Zeldyrr · 05/05/09, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by Heaven

You should definetely go for 3/5 in arcane stability (100% puchback resistance with imp. conc. aura) and 2/2 in subtlety (you will need that 40% agro reduction when AB spamming under AP and heroism with 4900 spell damage). And you need 3/3 in absorption, since in the majority of cases your SPD from IA will not be capped by 5% of your health (it will happen only during combined asborption by both Fire/Frost Ward and PW:S). You will also need to drop one point in Arcane Mind, since it is the smallest dps increase (according to RAWR).

Here is the build: Talent Calculator - World of Warcraft

Trying out 2/2 Subtlety is definitely something on my list. I haven't had huge threat problems, but as I said above if everything procs at once, it can be an issue.

Have you considered dropping ABar instead of the 1 point in Arcane Mind? I know the common wisdom is that you can cast ABar "on the move" but I'm honestly not sure it is worth the mana to cast it unstacked. Since I never use it in my rotations, it is tempting. This isn't something RAWR can really help with, of course.

Caspien · 05/05/09, 1:08 PM

Originally Posted by semata

Did you even read the post you quoted? Selun said that the wowhead link (which I assume is where you got 'periodic' from) isn't updated. Assuming Blizzard's description is correct,

Easy there... you're quoting from a post I made and then went back and corrected immediately. I realized as I hit 'submit' I was referencing the wrong 'link'.

Snuttesnutt · 05/05/09, 7:04 PM

Furious Gladiator's Combat Staff might be a good alternative for Staff of Endless Winter? Loss of ~60int ~100spirit (buffed) 104crit and a blue socket. Gain of 92haste and a red socket.
It's still inferior to endless winter but not sure by how much.

dersleeper · 05/06/09, 5:02 AM

Originally Posted by Heaven

I think the spellpower value changes with every tick absorbed and the buff duration is refreshed. I noticed that on Mimiron during phases 2 and 3, when he casts fire aoe which also leaves a dot. Spellpower was increasing with every tick of this dot, and the buff duration was refreshed. However, as the buff was fading, the spellpower was also going down in several steps.

Interesting: During Sapphiron yesterday I used Frost Ward with Incanter's Absorption.
One thing I just noticed while looking at the webstats: The mana gained from the Frost Warding talent was close to the mana gained from replenishment.

Back to the IA Buff. Due to the frost aura (which should do 1600 frost damage every 2 seconds) I noticed my spelldamage increasing in 3 steps 2 seconds each (with the debuff time resetting every time) after buffing me with Frost Ward.
But I didn't notice the spell damage going down in steps, it seemed to disappear once the buff disappeared.
I will check it with a priest just to make sure that LiveDamage or my eyes didn't fail me on this one.

If the bonus wouldn't drop the talent would be insanely powerful when working with a perma shielding disc priest.

Alezio · 05/06/09, 6:54 AM

Tried an incanter's Absorption build on Hodir the other night and had great success with it even without a priests shield. When speccing into frost warding and using fire or frost ward does the damage negated count as absorbed or not?

I'm guessing it doesn't but our log parses haven't been posted from that fight so i haven't been able to check things out myself.

dansbetter · 05/06/09, 11:00 AM

Long time reader, and first time poster.

I have been playing around with Rawr and I was wondering from your guys experience what the best setup tier wise currently will be? 4 pc 8.5, 2 pc 7.5, or neither of the set bonuses? I don't see how the 8.5 set bonus can outweigh the stat increases of other items.

Aqil · 05/06/09, 2:28 PM

Originally Posted by dansbetter

Long time reader, and first time poster.

I have been playing around with Rawr and I was wondering from your guys experience what the best setup tier wise currently will be? 4 pc 8.5, 2 pc 7.5, or neither of the set bonuses? I don't see how the 8.5 set bonus can outweigh the stat increases of other items.

I've also been messing around a bit with Rawr and I got results very similar to Caspien's. Not including hard mode drops, rawr shows me for that 4 pc T8 is best in slot. If you include hard mode drops though, it would seem that you'll just want to use the shoulders and gloves and pick up some of the really great off-tier pieces like leggings of the enslaved idol instead.

It doesn't seem like there is a compelling reason to hang onto the t7.5 though. Between the strength of the t8 2 pc bonus and some of the nicer off-tier pieces I personally think you'd be better served with getting rid of the T7 when you can.

Organigami · 05/06/09, 2:46 PM

Originally Posted by Alezio

Tried an incanter's Absorption build on Hodir the other night and had great success with it even without a priests shield. When speccing into frost warding and using fire or frost ward does the damage negated count as absorbed or not? .

Quick test on Akali Subduers in Zul'drak, using rank 1 Fire Ward - absorbs 165 fire damage and no longer scales with sp at lvl 80.

Organigami gains Organigami's Incanter's Absorption
Akali Subduer's Fireball was absorbed by Organigami. (760 Absorbed)
Organigami gains 760 mana from Organigami's Frost Warding

This IA buff shifted my spell damage from 2121 to 2235, the expected 0.15x760.
The next mob fireball broke through the ward, 165 damage being absorbed which is the full capacity of rank 1 FW.

A Frost Warding proc counts as an absorb for IA and also extends the Ward's absorption total.

Caydence · 05/06/09, 3:27 PM

Originally Posted by Organigami

A Frost Warding proc counts as an absorb for IA and also extends the Ward's absorption total.

Wait, so, does this mean that if Frost Warding procs, we can theoretically survive any single fire or frost attack? For example, the rockets in Mimiron? (Not that I would risk it, of course.)

I've been trying Incanter's Absorption + Frost Warding for the past couple of days, and I must say it's quite nice. Especially with a discipline priest around. The mana gained coupled with the additional spellpower is pretty much awesome. It's like having my own Mana Tide totem that also gives me a spellpower buff. I didn't even lose much by switching the points around (I needed to get rid of a couple talents in Arcane Focus anyway).

Not to mention I'm sure I'm making our healers happy that I'm using frost/fire wards more often and saving some of their mana. :-)