I searched but couldn't find an answer to this question: does the current model for Nibelung in Rawr account for the fact that it does not proc from each missile but only from the initial AM cast?
Slightly off topic, but has anyone else noticed Nibelung no longer procs off of spells since patch? I only use the staff for heroics and aoe, and the only 2 procs since patch have come from molten armor procs.
Thanks Rugz and Salus for 2 very informative posts (I've been wondering about those questions myself)
I'm arcane and sitting at 887 haste, which means If i pop IV under Heroism, I go over hastecap while 2T10 bonus is active, which is essentially 100%, since my whole rotation can fit inside the 5 seconds of the buff. My AB casts are .982 seconds, according to the Spellhastecap calculator, which makes sense.
I wish I had my guilds permission to just "play around" with my rotations, and test out what works best in a raid scenario, but we are not hardcore (read: 25mans are on a tight time-schedule), so there just isn't a whole lot of time for me to test things in raid.
My friendly disc priest is more than happy to occasionally give me Power Infusion, and since that doesn't stack with Hero or AP, I'm considering ONLY using AP + haste pot during hero (Images as well, once I get 4T10). That would put me at 1.05s AB casts (2T10 included), which is pretty close to perfect for me. Then I would get PI+IV outside of Hero for 20 seconds of 1.06s AB casts.
I can't even imagine how people avoid hitting the 1 second cap with berserking, black magic, and Scale of fates.
If anyone sees a major flaw in my plan/logic, I would appreciate you speaking up!
Thanks again
Slightly off topic, but has anyone else noticed Nibelung no longer procs off of spells since patch? I only use the staff for heroics and aoe, and the only 2 procs since patch have come from molten armor procs.
I just did a heroic and it was proccing off Blizzard. I can confirm that the self-heal on their Smites is in too, though possibly not the proc rate buff (I didn't notice any more than usual, which presumably I would have with the rate being doubled).
Then I would get PI+IV outside of Hero for 20 seconds of 1.06s AB casts.
If anyone sees a major flaw in my plan/logic, I would appreciate you speaking up!
Thanks again
I hate to call you wrong without a log or anything, but according to my testing it about 6 weeks ago, PI + IC stack just fine, PI + AP don't stack (AP will over-write the PI buff, and PI can't be cast on you during AP). I assumed this behavior was a relic from when they were both percentage damage buffs, and the classification of the PI spell hasn't been changed.
PI not stacking with AP is from the time when they nerfed Berserker Buffs and so on, when mages oneshottet People in Warsong.
You sure about PI+BL not stacking? I know I often have both buffs at the same time showing. Are you saying 1 is being ignored in the dps calculations although it shows having both buffs. I often blow all my cooldowns on a BL (AP+IV+Hyper+MI) and just as soon as AP wears off I get a PI while BL is still active.
You sure about PI+BL not stacking? I know I often have both buffs at the same time showing. Are you saying 1 is being ignored in the dps calculations although it shows having both buffs. I often blow all my cooldowns on a BL (AP+IV+Hyper+MI) and just as soon as AP wears off I get a PI while BL is still active.
The haste benefit of Power Infusion will not stack with Bloodlust. You can however have both buffs at the same time, but only the mana cost reduction of Power Infusion will be active.
So, Nibelung. I've had a chance to test it a bit since the changes:
- The proc rate buff is in, and it now seems a competitive weapon, especially for someone concerned about hitting haste caps. The Val'kyr made up roughly 6-7% of my single-target dps over a few boss fights.
- The heal effect will not save a Val'kyr standing in particularly nasty effects (I had one die very quickly to Koralon's fire patch, for instance), but it will keep them up through almost anything else that doesn't 1-shot them outright. They could stand in Toravon's frozen orbs or take Marrowgar's Bone Storm if it wasn't in their face.
- It no longer has ridiculously overpowered interaction with Blizzard+Imp Blizzard+Frostbite triple-dipping on the proc. That said, it does still proc on every hit of an AOE, and once for the cast itself (haven't confirmed this latter since the change, but I don't believe it was changed).
- Very, very importantly, Val'kyr can be targetted for random-target effects. For example, the Nerub'ar Broodkeepers in early ICC would web them. I imagine this can be exploited to great effect on certain fights where pets are valid targets (can Malleable Goo be thrown at a pet, for instance?), and for damage-splitting effects (e.g. Putricide green ooze). I believe they're targeted as a pet would be. This might also be very dangerous on certain encounters (if they trigger Defile, for instance).
- If you are combat pulsed by a boss but in combat with nothing else, the Val'kyr will attack the boss. This has interesting results in, say, Azjol-Nerub.
Hrm. Im still having very bad proc rates with the Nibelung, even after the buff. I only use it for heroics normally, as my normal mh/oh are better for single target. On patch day, the only procs I got the entire day in heroics were off 2 molten armor hits. Since the buff, I'm seeing them more often than that, but still no where near like I was before. I rarely get more than 2 procs in a full heroic, and thats spamming blizzard the full time.
I should point out Im not, nor was I previously, specc'd into imp blizz and frostbite, so all I would have been seeing before was normal procs. Its been quite disappointing in my experience.
Hrm. Im still having very bad proc rates with the Nibelung. I only use it for heroics normally, as my normal mh/oh are better for single target. On patch day, the only procs I got the entire day in heroics were off 2 molten armor hits. Since the buff, I'm seeing them more often than that, but still no where near like I was before. I rarely get more than 2 procs in a full heroic, and thats spamming blizzard the full time.
I should point out Im not, nor was I previously, specc'd into imp blizz and frostbite, so all I would have been seeing before was normal procs. Its been quite disappointing in my experience.
I have a sneaking suspicion that there is a bug related to randoms. Try unequipping and equipping it at the start - I had noticed excessively long periods without procs (even considering the incredible RNG of the staff to begin with).
Im not sure what the guidelines are on posting on "new" encounters these days, so I'm gonna explain what is true in general in most cases:
- Damage-Auras (think Sapphiron) don't push your casting back, but they do damage obv.
- Nasty things you can stand in, get targeted by specifically or get smashed on the head with generally do push back your cast, but have a tendency of being deadly enough to deserve to run the hell out of them. Pushback protection does not grant any protection against 100%-pushback, i.e. death by void-zone.
- Adds meleeing you, as can ocasionally happen, do push you back, just like any melee-attacks do. From ICC so far, there haven't been many adds that dont insta-gib you and still require high DPS.
That being said, despite having been quite convinced of speccing into pushback protection in ICC first, I don't see many encounters anymore where I really need it (though I'm still waiting for hardmodes, obv.). I've been running 10mans without Imp.Concentration Aura, and despite having a 5% vulnerability to pushbacks from that, I haven't noticed any real pushbacks on any encounter except Marrowgar.
i've been trying to figure if there is a way, but so far came to the conclusion its impossible; but is there anyway to make this macro spammable?
/stopcasting
/cast [nochanneling] Arcane Blast
Why would you do that? If you stopped casting you would obviously not be channeling. That macro would basically do nothing except potentially clip an arcane blast cast if spammed. It would behave just as a non macro'd AB while casting AM.
What abilities, if any, cause push back on the LK encounter?
Throughout the fight just infest. In the transition phase his cone attack and the pulsing attack from being the target of a frost orb (or near someone who is the target) both cause pushback.
I don't understand that macro either. From what I've read here t10 procs as soon as the MB channel ends, regardless of whether it's clipped. A [channeling:Arcane Missiles] macro would be awesome, but I've had no luck as well.
i just want the macro to clip Arcane Missiles but not Arcane bLast, hopefully that makes much more sense.
This is the default behavior of casting arcane blast without a macro, but I'm guessing that's not exactly what you're going for. If what you want is for the T10 bonus to apply to your Arcane blast even if you clip the missile with it, that just doesn't seem possible with macros - That would require a wait function between when you clipped the missile and when you start casting the arcane blast; the parameter would have to be equal to the client server communication time, otherwise you'd either create dead cast time or cast arcane blast without the T10 buff.
The 2p T10 buff will be applied as soon as you press your AM hotkey after MB procs, even if you move, or interrupt it right away, and never get an actual single missile off. You "consume" the MB simply by pressing your AM hotkey. It doesn't matter if you clip a missile or not, or clip all of them, you'll still get the "Pushing the Limit" haste buff.
nochanneling macros are a DPS loss. This has already been discussed and proven. To add something that I guess no one realizes yet to the thread, Pushing The Limit is applied as soon as you finish the AM, regardless of if it ends on its own, or you end it. It is applied to your next spell cast without any fancy macroing, or timing your casts.
To prove this, using Quartz, I started chain casting on festergut, a very stand-and-burn fight. After MB proc'd, I casted AM, and cut it off after one missile with a cast of AB (no macro, just started casting it). My standard cast time without procs as shown on Quartz is 1.8 seconds. With the Pushing the Limits buff, that drops to 1.6 seconds, also according to Quartz. The AB I used to cut off AM was cast in 1.6 seconds.
You guys are making it way more complicated than it needs to be. You don't need any fancy macros, and at current haste levels (I assume I'm on the low side compared to most mages in ICC, from what I've read) you don't even have to change your priority system. you can still fit in 4 AB's during the haste buff, provided your latency is low enough. At 1064 haste and ~100ms latency, I squeeze it in with about a half second left on the buff. Haste isn't recalculated mid-cast, so it doesn't matter if the buff ends mid-cast. Infact, it's ideal to have it end just after you start casting the spell, if you will not be able to cast another spell with said buff.
The 2p T10 buff will be applied as soon as you press your AM hotkey after MB procs, even if you move, or interrupt it right away, and never get an actual single missile off. You "consume" the MB simply by pressing your AM hotkey. It doesn't matter if you clip a missile or not, or clip all of them, you'll still get the "Pushing the Limit" haste buff.
No, the buff applies after the MB ends.
Originally Posted by Kevinally
nochanneling macros are a DPS loss. This has already been discussed and proven. To add something that I guess no one realizes yet to the thread, Pushing The Limit is applied as soon as you finish the AM, regardless of if it ends on its own, or you end it. It is applied to your next spell cast without any fancy macroing, or timing your casts.
To prove this, using Quartz, I started chain casting on festergut, a very stand-and-burn fight. After MB proc'd, I casted AM, and cut it off after one missile with a cast of AB (no macro, just started casting it). My standard cast time without procs as shown on Quartz is 1.8 seconds. With the Pushing the Limits buff, that drops to 1.6 seconds, also according to Quartz. The AB I used to cut off AM was cast in 1.6 seconds.
You guys are making it way more complicated than it needs to be. You don't need any fancy macros, and at current haste levels (I assume I'm on the low side compared to most mages in ICC, from what I've read) you don't even have to change your priority system. you can still fit in 4 AB's during the haste buff, provided your latency is low enough. At 1064 haste and ~100ms latency, I squeeze it in with about a half second left on the buff. Haste isn't recalculated mid-cast, so it doesn't matter if the buff ends mid-cast. Infact, it's ideal to have it end just after you start casting the spell, if you will not be able to cast another spell with said buff.
No, your info is completely incorrect. I just did the exact same test and clipping Arcane Missiles at all results in the first AB not getting the benefit of Pushing the Limit. That's why some people are turning to a nochanneling macro, which in this casemay result in a dps gain.
I'm really not sure what's happening to you. My guess is that you're confused with a rolling PtL. Maybe you could capture your test and post it on youtube?
I'm not sure how you and I are getting two different answers from almost the same test. I'm definitely not rolling PtL. It clearly goes to 0sec just as I start casting my fourth AB, so the only way to "roll" it would be to go ABx3AM, which would be a waste of a perfectly good proc. I still disagree that a nochan macro would cause a DPS increase, though.
Yes, as long as I remember to, I'll fraps our 25 raid on tuesday (in an off-week right now). I'll even make Quartz FREAKING HUGE so there is no "well, is that a .6, or a .8".
No, the buff applies after the MB ends.
No, your info is completely incorrect. I just did the exact same test and clipping Arcane Missiles at all results in the first AB not getting the benefit of Pushing the Limit.
Some simple testing I have done supports this. Below are some lines extracted from my combat log against the Ironforge dummy (I've removed extraneous information such as the damage lines and the hexadecimal codes). I'm not using any macros on my casts, and I took off my weapon (which has the Black Magic enchant) to prevent unwanted extra haste effects. My lag was sitting at about 25 ms.
I gained MBarr before blast B0 and I have clipped the AM channel after 3 missiles (M1-3) with the next AB (B1), and chain casted AB after that. Nominally I gain the PtL buff 1ms before the start of casting B1, however if you look at timing between the post-buff blasts: B2-B1 = 1.886s; B3-B2 = 1.676s. This is consistent with what Quartz was showing (1.9 and 1.7). So, I can only interpret this as B1 not benefitting from PtL.
I personnally had results similar to Korey, as have had most mages who posted on the issue on this board. Unless 3.2.2 changed something... but it didn't, I just tested again to make sure.
Also, the gain from a nochanneling macro isn't only to make sure your first AB gains PtL, however, it's also to make sure you get all five missiles. Losing the last missile is definitively a DPS loss; hence, even without PtL, depending on your clipping rate, the nochanneling macro might be an overall DPS gain (it's my case, especially if I use mousewheel casting or a "turbo" programmable button to minimize the impact of lag on the nochannelign macro).
Also, you don't need to wait until Festergut to test it. A training dummy works perfectly well.
nochanneling macros are a DPS loss. This has already been discussed and proven.
This is not necessarily correct given that the major issue with AM (at least in my setup) is high latency. At high latency (300ms+) and/or highly variable latency Quartz doesn't seem to be that accurate. You can easily clip a AM missile with AB despite hitting the key directly in the red zone of the Quartz bar. This has something to do with how Quartz samples your latency.
It seems to be that Quartz will include server-side queuing as part of the "red zone" representation of your latency. This is correct for determining when you can start to cast a spell when you're casting a normal spell, but is incorrect when you're casting a channeled spell (it will clip the channel rather than queue).
02/03/10, 6:33 PM
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