I agree people need to adapt their rotations, but there are also some general guidelines. AB(+MBAM) spam during AP/IV/Heroism is really just icing on the cake if you know you'll have zero mana problems. Otherwise, simply doing AB3-AM-Abar the whole time, should come within 1-2% of optimal. And if you're really hurting for mana (e.g. no Replenishment), it looks like AB2-AM-Abar is the next rotation to try.
We start with bloodlust in most fights just right after the fight starts. I think, it is better to do the regular cycle for the first 20 sec and blow after that IV+AP. The advantage is that i can evocate at the last IV and lust Tick (39 sec of lust and 19 sec of IV) and not loosing lust time if i use IV + AP at the start of lust. Of corse, if the fight doesen't allow you to use IV+AP a second time for just that 20 sec, it is better to start earlyer.
What is better to use in the highest possible Stack wich lust + IV + AP? Pure AB spam / ABar cycle or clipping cycle? Does a haste pot stack with both lust and IV at the same time?
Wasn't AB2-(MBAM)-ABar shown to be less dps than AB-(MBAM)-ABar?
Also, what's the policy on MBAM procs on ABar? Ramp up (and risk loosing another proc) or fire off?
As a side note, when I was Naxx25 yesterday we had replenishment basically constantly ticking and on top of that JoW and manatide and I had problems getting rid of my mana with the AB3 cycle, so most of the time I just kept AB4-AB5 (or until proc).
Wasn't AB2-(MBAM)-ABar shown to be less dps than AB-(MBAM)-ABar?
Also, what's the policy on MBAM procs on ABar? Ramp up (and risk loosing another proc) or fire off?
As a side note, when I was Naxx25 yesterday we had replenishment basically constantly ticking and on top of that JoW and manatide and I had problems getting rid of my mana with the AB3 cycle, so most of the time I just kept AB4-AB5 (or until proc).
Which armor did you use?
I'm gonna do my first real test on tuesday in Naxx25, but I encountered some manaproblems in Naxx10 (with replenishment) when keeping up the 3ab-rotation during the whole fight.
(I usually ran low about 10 secs before I could use evo)
I normally run around with glyphed mage armor, because I like it better from an arcane character point of view. I had about 550 mp5 infight as displayed on the character sheet and JoW/replenishment/tide on top of that.
I've skimmed over most of this thread, and I apologize if any of this is redundant. The dps numbers listed in this thread assumes a non-arcane specced mage to provide Imp Scorch debuff on bosses. My questions come from past arcane experience, asking if old ideals still hold true.
The comment posted early in the thread referring to Arcane as spurts of burst damage sounded exact to me. Arcane has always had a gunslinger mentality to it, with mana being it's only limit. Ideally, the mage should be using AB enough to be left with 30ish% mana during Evocate. The idea of using a set rotation makes sense to maintain enough DPM. Each fight should be aimed towards the mage hitting OOM by chaining ABs instead of following this set rotation of ABx3, am, abarr.
Admittedly, I have not played with Rawr much as Arcane. My question:
-Is CSD still tops concerning meta gems? Will the 25spp-2% int give a better damage increase being that arcane does not benefit from crit as much?
This has been asked, it can be extremely simply discovered with circa 2m of work with Rawr, and remains a dense question to ask.
Even in the middle of BC, when Mind Mastery would give 25% int->SP conversion, 2% int was far inferior to Chaotic meta.
Chaotic metagem is still the fundamental DPS champion. You should have discovered this if you searched for it. If the int gem would grant 4% int, we'd have a debatable question on our hands.
I've skimmed over most of this thread, and I apologize if any of this is redundant. The dps numbers listed in this thread assumes a non-arcane specced mage to provide Imp Scorch debuff on bosses. My questions come from past arcane experience, asking if old ideals still hold true.
Arcane build for some part still "require" a poor scorch slave, eventhough you can spec arcane/scorch its still a pretty big performance drop to keep scorch up. But scorch is so benificial for the rest of the raid, that at least our raid leaders require one of the mages to spec for it. Arcane really shines, when the raid keeps up snares on the target, which i sadly could se from the last run we did, our druid and paly tank did not.. And without Torment and Scorch the arcane mages will take a serious drop i dps.
I still seach for the "best" arcane scorch build, but since it's mostly about NOT loosing to much dps, i'm not sure how we will do it in the future.. rock, paper, sissors and the looser is a raid slave for a month
Has much thought been put into taking prismatic cloak? As I understand it that will give you an instant cast invisibility spell so could it be used like feign death?
I'd have a button that press the first time for the invisible then then the second time cancels the aura and last targets.
I assume there is a holy paladin so I have 95% push back resist, I didn't take arcane mind because I don't think 10 spell damage is worth 1 talent point.
I'm going to play with it tonight and see how it goes.
Arcane build for some part still "require" a poor scorch slave, eventhough you can spec arcane/scorch its still a pretty big performance drop to keep scorch up. But scorch is so benificial for the rest of the raid, that at least our raid leaders require one of the mages to spec for it. Arcane really shines, when the raid keeps up snares on the target, which i sadly could se from the last run we did, our druid and paly tank did not.. And without Torment and Scorch the arcane mages will take a serious drop i dps.
I am really proud of what Blizzard has done with mages. Seemingly, playing arcane correctly will yield the most dps, however it requires more skill to coordinate than the 18/53 or 0/52/19 fire specs. Having that non-arcane mage is reminiscent of the affliction lock we all saw during Sunwell, less dps but providing important debuffs.
I didn't take arcane mind because I don't think 10 spell damage is worth 1 talent point.
Looking at my stats real quick, I have 1049 intellect unbuffed (but specced, yes). So, assuming that number is inflated by 15%, I have 912 intellect from other sources than Arcane Mind.
So each point I put into Arcane Mind gives me 27 intellect and ~4 sp (from Mind Mastery).
I feel that extra mana pool helps greatly with Arcane, seeing as how I can drain all 22k mana in a matter of less than 30 seconds.
Arcane requires a different set of skills compared to FFB, I'm hesitant to say that it requires more skill. Arcane can produce superb results by following it's rotation for the entire length of a fight, and never paying attention to procs etc. It's skill is based on mana management and cooldown management.
FFB / FB both have far less concerns about mana and cooldowns, but they do have more combat elements to track - keeping Living Bomb refreshed on the target and reacting to hot streak procs.
Personally, although I'm definitely enjoying arcane, I think it could do with being tuned a bit mroe so that missile barrage procs aren't just something you leave until you hit your 3 casts of Arcane Blast every time.
EDIT: Also, less DPs is relative. A fireball or FFB mage will still produce DPs numbers that can easily top almost any fight, whereas affliction locks in SWP were substantially below any other spec, to the point where you didn't bring them full stop. In honesty, it does look like Arcane might be too high damage right now - although it will be hard to be sure about this until we hit some stretching content like Ulduar where the bosses won't just drop dead after 2 minutes.
I am really proud of what Blizzard has done with mages. Seemingly, playing arcane correctly will yield the most dps, however it requires more skill to coordinate than the 18/53 or 0/52/19 fire specs. Having that non-arcane mage is reminiscent of the affliction lock we all saw during Sunwell, less dps but providing important debuffs.
What skill are you talking about, arcane rotation is a lot simpler then fire/frostfire, there is no real skill required all you need to do is press 3 buttons AB, AM, ABar - done. Mana management is trivial, use a gem, mana pot and evocate at the best moment while considering fight length and tail ends of IV/heroism.
Even the CDs are simpler to use, when as fire I had to use my CDs so that they are available for MF range, now I just need to use them as much as I can (barring sync with heroism).
Not only that, it's supirior to fire/frostfire in the 'hard' encounters currently in game Sarth+3d (burning Tenebron and Shadron) and Malygos under 5/6.
Does anyone have any updated pawn values for the Arcane Mage? Now that we need to completely redo our item optimization I've been trying to come up with this and failing. Hit and Crit are no longer as important to us as pure SP and haste. Any numbers on this?
What skill are you talking about, arcane rotation is a lot simpler then fire/frostfire, there is no real skill required all you need to do is press 3 buttons AB, AM, ABar - done. Mana management is trivial, use a gem, mana pot and evocate at the best moment while considering fight length and tail ends of IV/heroism.
I think the difference is that as FFB you have a set rotation that you will always be casting no matter what. As Arcane you have a set rotation that you always want to be casting, but your mana bar doesn't always allow it, some may say it's harder, but it's really just different. Both specs are viable, both can be king of the hill given the right circumstances, play whichever you find the most fun (assuming your raid already has the 10% crit debuff in place).
Long time reader, first time poster. Just wanted to thank everyone who put in a lot of hard work in to provide great information. It doesn't go unnoticed!
My question is this and I performed a search and found no answer.
Has anyone weighed the benefits of dropping 2 points from incineration (1/3) for 2 extra points in Arcane stability (4/5)? Specifically, does the gain in pushback protection of Arcane stability outweigh the 4% crit to Arcane blast?
Long time reader, first time poster. Just wanted to thank everyone who put in a lot of hard work in to provide great information. It doesn't go unnoticed!
My question is this and I performed a search and found no answer.
Has anyone weighed the benefits of dropping 2 points from incineration (1/3) for 2 extra points in Arcane stability (4/5)? Specifically, does the gain in pushback protection of Arcane stability outweigh the 4% crit to Arcane blast?
I carry slow because i like the utility of the spell.
No, it's not worth it. In my experience, the most you'll ever want in Stability would be 3 points with untalented concentration aura to give you 95% pushback resist. If there's imp conc aura, you'll only ever want 2 points. 4% crit is useful every time you cast arcane blast, which is a lot. Pushback resist is only useful when you're taking damage. In current raid situations, this is not very often.
What skill are you talking about, arcane rotation is a lot simpler then fire/frostfire, there is no real skill required all you need to do is press 3 buttons AB, AM, ABar - done. Mana management is trivial, use a gem, mana pot and evocate at the best moment while considering fight length and tail ends of IV/heroism.
Understand that we can control our own burst using Arcane. Straight AB spam will run us OOM in about 20 seconds, but will put out much more dps. Making sure you clip the fifth missile takes timing and coordination. Any arcane mage that finishes a fight with more than 25% mana is not playing correctly. Fire is whack a mole. Spam one button until the other talents are available.
Erm, if that's how you are playing fire, you're doing it wrong. Wack a mole on Living Bomb nets you fuck all, and randomly pressing scorch every so often ain't so hot either.
I also think there's a lot of arcane mages here from pre 3.0.8 days who are overestimating the current spec and design. If you just stick to a AB*3, AM /ABarr rotation form start to end, you'll be 1 or 2% of your optimal output according to earlier posts. Now, 1% can be important, but it's not some life changing decision here. Arcanes ability to "blow it's load" is no-where near as flexible as it was when we were using Tier 5 back in TBC, and nor is it as rewarding as it was then. Yes, you can make silly numbers on a 90 second Faerlina kill, but once you go beyond that, Arcane can achieve almost perfect results from just sticking to the rotation, whereas FFB / FB have to react and change according to what abilities are up and what timer is coming up on LB / Scorch. As I said earlier, it's a very different set of skills to arcane, but to call it somehow simpler is ignoring the brute reality of what Arcane currently does, and hugely downplays the skill requirements in FFB / Fb.
How are people binding their keys for arcane spec? I've tried a number of different ways, and settled on the following for now.
AB bound to mouse wheel down for good spamming and not macro'd for flexiblity on how many ABs to cast.
The following AM ABarr macro bound to mouse wheel up for maximum spamming to get the 60% effect on my ABarr as much as possible:
/castsequence [nochanneling] Arcane Missiles, Arcane Barrage
I also have 2 CD macro's, one that blows all my 2min CDs and one that blows all of my CDs bound to easy to reach keys.
I had little or no mana problems in Naxx, Maly, or Sarth+3 with mage armor glyph, switching to Molten Armor for next week. I just have to make sure I'm bringing along a few stacks of mana pots and rebind them to a more accessible key.
Erm, if that's how you are playing fire, you're doing it wrong. Wack a mole on Living Bomb nets you fuck all, and randomly pressing scorch every so often ain't so hot either.
I also think there's a lot of arcane mages here from pre 3.0.8 days who are overestimating the current spec and design. If you just stick to a AB*3, AM /ABarr rotation form start to end, you'll be 1 or 2% of your optimal output according to earlier posts. Now, 1% can be important, but it's not some life changing decision here. Arcanes ability to "blow it's load" is no-where near as flexible as it was when we were using Tier 5 back in TBC, and nor is it as rewarding as it was then. Yes, you can make silly numbers on a 90 second Faerlina kill, but once you go beyond that, Arcane can achieve almost perfect results from just sticking to the rotation, whereas FFB / FB have to react and change according to what abilities are up and what timer is coming up on LB / Scorch. As I said earlier, it's a very different set of skills to arcane, but to call it somehow simpler is ignoring the brute reality of what Arcane currently does, and hugely downplays the skill requirements in FFB / Fb.
There are still a few decisions to be made on the basic cycle of playing with Arcane, but that's mostly to deal with movement on fights.
Right now, I'm operating under the assumption that I should always cast Arcane Barrage whenever I have to move. I also have to make sure to catch my Missile Barrages after a movement, while building them up with Arcane Blast. If, for example, I have six seconds left on a MB, I need to make sure to cast it after the second Arcane Blast and not accidentally lost the buff.
I assume I'm doing things correctly there, but I really have no idea if that's the smart play or not.
What rotation are people using for 53/18/0 or 51/20/0 -- I see people claiming with 53/18/0 they are using AB -> Fireball (Repeat) POM Pyro when up, but can't find much info on this... We run 3 mages and 1 of us has to scorch so we are going to alternate. I'm curious to see how much of a DPS boost 5#/#/0 is vs 18/53/0 Fireball/TTW as the scorch bitch...
Would appreciate any info think we need more info on this spec as atleast 1 mage in every raid will have to spec something to provide scorch...
The following AM ABarr macro bound to mouse wheel up for maximum spamming to get the 60% effect on my ABarr as much as possible:
/castsequence [nochanneling] Arcane Missiles, Arcane Barrage
How does this work? I thought it was determined that the nochanneling function prevented ABr from gaining the 60% bonus.
How does this work? I thought it was determined that the nochanneling function prevented ABr from gaining the 60% bonus.
When I was first trying out arcane cycles I attempted to use this macro as well - even though everyone had said it didn't work. What I found was that it worked occasionally, but was not nearly as reliable as doing it yourself. It was also patch day, and lag was atrocious, so that could be why it was working some of the time, I haven't tried it since then.
01/26/09, 5:33 AM
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