Elitist Jerks
Register
Blogs
Forums


Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Mages

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10/13/09, 9:43 AM   #3001
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Burnonedown View Post
You're right, 50dps is a drop in the bucket when compared to the 10k bis is calculating at. And with intelligent play I agree that you can use your wards pretty judiciously and make use of IA. Would you get more than a constant 50dps on those fights using wards and shields? Just curious.
Some napkin maths:
According to Rawr in Arcane BiS gear:
3/3 SotM: 90.2 DPS
1 +damage: 1.9 DPS

So 3/3 SotM equals an average of 47.5 SP. Since Incanter's Absorption lasts 10 seconds you'll need an average of 47.5/0.15=320 damage absorbed every 10 seconds, that's 1920 damage every minute.

So when do you absorb more than 1920 damage every minute on average? In nearly every fight if you have a Disc Priest and a Val'Anyr Druid I'd say, in many fights you'll absorb way more than that.

Germany Offline
Old 10/13/09, 9:45 AM   #3002
Asharia
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Thrall
I had a thought that maybe mage armor would be better dps at some point. I don't know if some one can direct me to some post or thread that deals with this. I haven't been able to find any information on it, so basic my thoughts go like this:

The extra mana regen would allow for extra ab spam, which should mean more dps. With 26k mana raid buffed, there's already a lot of room for extra ab spam. My crit comes to almost ~47% with molten, which I thought was a little excessive. To try and test it, I tried using the two different armors on the same fight (after a wipe). It came up mage armor was better, but the numbers didn't exactly add up right either, so I'm not sure. I realise it also kind of depends on the fight lengths as well.

Thanks to any one who has input on this, it's been driving me crazy =)

Offline
Old 10/13/09, 9:58 AM   #3003
Hidden
King Hippo
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Nazjatar (EU)
Originally Posted by Asharia View Post
I had a thought that maybe mage armor would be better dps at some point. I don't know if some one can direct me to some post or thread that deals with this. I haven't been able to find any information on it, so basic my thoughts go like this:

The extra mana regen would allow for extra ab spam, which should mean more dps. With 26k mana raid buffed, there's already a lot of room for extra ab spam. My crit comes to almost ~47% with molten, which I thought was a little excessive. To try and test it, I tried using the two different armors on the same fight (after a wipe). It came up mage armor was better, but the numbers didn't exactly add up right either, so I'm not sure. I realise it also kind of depends on the fight lengths as well.

Thanks to any one who has input on this, it's been driving me crazy =)
Not only is the additional DPS you gain from the gained mana quite low (DPS/DPM-wise going from a ABSpamXMBAM to ABSpam only is horribly inefficient) but Molten Armor in general has been better since the change to being spirit-based, especially when glyphed and having 2T9 (Mage Armor glyph and 2T9 with Mage Armor are next to useless because regeneration doesn't go over 100%).

Going by Rawr in BiS Arcane gear you get ~150 DPS from Mage Armor and ~800 DPS from Molten Armor.

Germany Offline
Old 10/13/09, 9:59 AM   #3004
Ocrist
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Norgannon (EU)
Originally Posted by Allecto View Post
I recently realized that I was wasting my IV/Scale by casting it on top of heroism, which put me beyond the GCD. So now, I use Scale and/or IV outside of heroism.
I have been looking through this thread to find out just how much haste is going to push me over this limit during heroism, but haven't come accross a definte figure. Can someone help me? I also have the Scale of Fates.

Edit: grammar

Last edited by Ocrist : 10/13/09 at 10:13 AM.

Germany Offline
Old 10/13/09, 10:19 AM   #3005
gnougat
Glass Joe
 
gnougat's Avatar
 
Gnome Mage
 
Barthilas
Originally Posted by Ulgut View Post
Something to think about with POM is that it also increase the crit-rate of the next spell with 30% (assuming you don't have a clearcast proc already). Hence if you want to use POM as a damage cooldown and not save it for movement, it's best to use it at 3 or 4 stacks of AB, since the extra 30% crit gives the most bonus damage at this point.
If not required to save it for movement, I like to use POM on the 4th AB cast if Mbarr hasn't procced yet. The GCD incurred is just enough time to see the Mbarr buff come up should the 4th (instant) AB proc it.

Offline
Old 10/13/09, 5:47 PM   #3006
Snoopz
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Mage
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Right well after reading around its come to my attention that some mages are using Incanter's Absorption. I was just wondering how people are going around this, eg do i need a priest to constantly stack a shield on me or should i be looking to use one of my own shields. I was also wondering were the mages that are using this talent are taking the talents from. i can in a way understand taking them from both range or Spirit but am just curious. Just looking for some advice as arcane builds can be changed so easily it seems.

Also am i right in thinking that the rotation of Arcane Blastx4 followed by a Missile Barrage then rinse and repeat is the best rotation and only using Arcane Barrage if no proc.

Thanks in advanced for any help.

Offline
Old 10/13/09, 8:01 PM   #3007
Malvenue
Banned
 
Undead Mage
 
<TBT>
Kargath
The vast majority of fights right now involve some sort of frost or fire damage making the improved wards trigger IA as well as being excellent mana returns for only a couple of points on the way to IV in the frost tree.

Offline
Old 10/14/09, 3:57 AM   #3008
Ulgut
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Stormscale (EU)
Originally Posted by Malvenue View Post
The vast majority of fights right now involve some sort of frost or fire damage making the improved wards trigger IA as well as being excellent mana returns for only a couple of points on the way to IV in the frost tree.
Is it really a dps gain to use a gcd for a fire/frost ward, and then use the extra mana for additional AB spam? Or do you use the wards to help with survial, and the extra mana you get is just a bonus?

Offline
Old 10/14/09, 4:53 AM   #3009
 Seonid
Commander Nexus
 
Seonid's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Anachronos (EU)
It's not really a DPS gain per se as it's still only a 30% chance to gain mana back. Should you prioritise it over DPS? Of course not. I personally use it to soak some damage on intense healing fights (taking MA for the same reason) and any mana return is simply a nice bonus. If you time it within phase transitions and forced movement situations, then the DPS loss from that GCD is minimised. As with all situational talents and filler points you take it if you think it will benefit you.

The Mage theme song.
From the moment that the trading ship, Avalonia, slipped its orbital berth above the planet Lave, and began to manoeuvre for the hyperspace jump point, its measureable life-span, and that of one of its two-man crew, was exactly eighteen minutes.

Great Britain Offline
Old 10/14/09, 8:53 AM   #3010
debauchery
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Staghelm
Hey. New respec from FFB. Doing a lot more dps now that I know what to stack (bye crit, nice to know ya), but I've been (apparently mistakenly) using PoM rather than AP. A quick glance through this thread could tell a complete idiot that one uses AP with IV.

My question is this: is the only time to use PoM when your AB stack is about to fall off due to movement?

Last edited by debauchery : 10/14/09 at 8:58 AM.

Offline
Old 10/14/09, 9:11 AM   #3011
Shaitans
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Mage
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by debauchery View Post
My question is this: is there ever a use for PoM or can I take it off my cast bar entirely?
Read through the last couple of pages for a more in depth discussion on the topic, but the general conclusion (and correct me if I go off on this matter) is that "yes, it can be useful - albeit marginally."

As near as I can tell there are essentially two uses for PoM.

#1 - Use PoM early and as soon as it's available to cast again. Essentially, a PoM arc blast saves roughly 1-2 seconds from your rotation. If used as much as possible, in a 5 minute fight - you've saved 5-6 seconds from an absolutely optimal rotation (i.e. no interrupts to the rotation and no running). This isn't a big difference obviously (nor is it entirely likely); however, it may become a bigger difference in longer fights.

#2 - Save PoM for times when you are running. Essentially, you would save PoM until such time as you would need to run away from something (such as standing fire) or you are running to something (such as Icehowl after charge). This method has the added benefit of increasing (or at least sustaining) your dps while on the move. However, you risk not using your PoM as often as you could because you may not encounter something which requires you to move in every encounter (or at least not as often as you would need to in order to use PoM as often as you possibly can).

My personal preference is strategy one for the very reason stated at the very end of strategy two. The benefit of using PoM as often as possible gets exaggerated because of the Arcane Potency proc. Additionally, with the first strategy (because it is optimal to use PoM on the 4th arc blast) you can control when you use PoM. In the end though, the difference between the two strategies may be so minimal as to suggest a third strategy which is, essentially, "It depends on the encounter." If you'll move a lot, save the PoM for movement time. If not, use as often as possible.

Offline
Old 10/14/09, 9:25 AM   #3012
ShoGuL
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Kazzak (EU)
Originally Posted by debauchery View Post
Hey. New respec from FFB. Doing a lot more dps now that I know what to stack (bye crit, nice to know ya), but I've been (apparently mistakenly) using PoM rather than AP. A quick glance through this thread could tell a complete idiot that one uses AP with IV.

My question is this: is the only time to use PoM when your AB stack is about to fall off due to movement?
A PoM - AB macro is nice if you have to move, it's certainly much more dps than arcane barrage. If I don't have to move, personally I use it as my fourth AB in the rotation if I don't have missile barrage - the crit bonus will mean more on the fourth application, and the global cooldown means you have time to react to a missile barrage proc.

I am quite certain that using it in that way is a much smaller dps boost than using it when you have to move though

EDIT: The previous reply was much more in-depth, it wasn't there when I started typing this

Offline
Old 10/14/09, 2:02 PM   #3013
Snoopz
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Mage
 
Defias Brotherhood (EU)
Originally Posted by Malvenue View Post
The vast majority of fights right now involve some sort of frost or fire damage making the improved wards trigger IA as well as being excellent mana returns for only a couple of points on the way to IV in the frost tree.
Well iv just been trying with a Disc Priest to keep a shield on me as much as posible, this is definatly the most effective way of using IA, in a Razorscale test i gained around 500-1000 Spell power not sure how much but that was definaly a good increase for 10 seconds. In a fight such as Anub were there is lots of raid damage and everyone is taking damage the use of these shields is so valuable to the raid and will also increase DPS.

The use of our Wards imo will not be effective to break a rotation to pop a ward on the chance that im going to take damage.

Offline
Old 10/14/09, 2:27 PM   #3014
Shaitans
Von Kaiser
 
Troll Mage
 
Dragonmaw
Originally Posted by Snoopz View Post
The use of our Wards imo will not be effective to break a rotation to pop a ward on the chance that im going to take damage.
The most effective method of using a Ward, I believe, is either just before the encounter begins or after you've been targeted. For example of the later event, I would point to the fire on Gormok/Razorscale/Jarraxxus. In all of those instances, you will be targeted for the fire and will undoubtedly take some damage regardless of if you move immediately. If you take the time to pop a ward before moving out of the fire, that would result in a garaunteed dps increase and minimal loss of dps time (since it's incorporated into the dps time loss necessary to move out of the fire anyways).

A gray matter may exist in a situation where you know for sure that you are about to take on a nuke which will do more than 1950 damage from a single nuke. In that situation, are you better off interrupting your rotation to pop a ward in return for a garaunteed 195 SP increase for the next 10 seconds?

Last edited by Shaitans : 10/14/09 at 2:34 PM.

Offline
Old 10/14/09, 2:50 PM   #3015
bradnr
Glass Joe
 
Human Mage
 
Silvermoon
I can't seem to find the 3.2.2 scaling values. I did a search, and I've looked through the last 20 pages of posts. Would you please repost them? Thanks

Offline
Closed Thread

Go Back   Elitist Jerks » Class Mechanics » Mages

Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
The new Arcane after patch 2.3? Alvira The Dung Heap 2 11/07/07 4:17 AM
Arcane before 2-t5 and BT loots maxi The Dung Heap 1 10/03/07 6:26 AM
Playing an Arcane Mage Netherblade Class Mechanics 36 07/25/07 11:31 PM
Arcane Focus = +hit%? maxi Class Mechanics 2 04/10/07 10:46 AM