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Old 12/11/09, 10:26 AM   #3226
Lucai
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Cho'gall
Originally Posted by zmb View Post
hm i have a litte question about arcmage<->haste-rating<-> black magic

my stats:
hit 308(11.74%)
crit 30.78% (with molten armor + int)
haste 302(9.21%)

ive looted the quel'delar quest item yesterday....and finished the questline today to get
-> quel'delar - lense of mind

Now.. Rawr.Mage says: Black Magic enchant is in front of Mighty Spellpower enchant.
But if Black Magic proccs... i am casting nearly gcd, or what? is mighty spellpower not the better alternative?

any suggestions?

(sry for my d-englisch)

regards zmb
With only 302 haste rating under full haste effects you have 1.06 sec casts for AB and MBAM without berserking, so I'd suggest only using two of icy veins, berserking or speed pot at a time when you have bloodlust up.
2.5 / 1.06 / 1.05 / 1.03 / 1.3 / 1.2 / (1 + (302 + 250 + 500) / 3279) = 1.06

In fact you'd need --- passive haste before you have to start worrying about the gcd cap.
----------

Edit: fixed

Last edited by Lucai : 12/15/09 at 2:36 PM.

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Old 12/11/09, 2:17 PM   #3227
Yiatsek
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Lightning's Blade (EU)
Guys i just put black magic enchant and i am also have problems with haste cap etc.

What i mean , my stats are:
haste rating 933 : 28,45%
My base cast time is 1.84s on AB
i put black magic(250)
i am troll mage that means berserking 20%
and i can open IV also 20%

With IV and berserk together , bm enchant and with my base haste i can have 1.2 cast time ,, that ,means with totem on raids (5%) i can catch gcd? That means when shamans open BL i must dont use IV-Berserk ? (i am thinking to use IV berserk without bl and with bl i can drink a pot or something)

Is there any solution? i mean what is the cap and if i dont use that enchant is better ?

Ty for understanding!

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Old 12/11/09, 3:30 PM   #3228
pyromaniak
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Ghostlands
Originally Posted by Lucai View Post
With only 302 haste rating under full haste effects you have 1.22 sec casts for AB and MBAM so you're still quite far from the gcd.
2.5 / 1.05 / 1.03 / 1.3 / 1.2 / (1 + (302 + 250 + 500) / 3279) = 1.22

In fact you'd need 830 passive haste before you have to start worrying about the gcd cap.
(2.5 / 1 / 1.05 / 1.03 / 1.3 / 1.2 - 1) * 3279 - 250 - 500 = 830
You're forgetting the bonuses with the T10/2pc which grants you 12% haste for 5 seconds and procs approximately every 10-12 seconds for a raid-geared arcane mage (an effective +5% haste) as well as the Netherwind Presence which grants an additional 6% haste. Additionally, Shiatans is a troll mage and is therefore also calculating the haste values with berserking.

Therefore Without Berserking:

(2.5 / 1.06 / 1.03 / 1.05 / 1.3 / 1.2 / 1.12 - 1) * 3279 - 250 - 500 = 63.66 (64 haste to GCD cap)

Edit: i guess the "effective" haste for the T10/2pc wouldn't really be significant to determining GCD caps so I used 1.12 instead of 1.05

Last edited by pyromaniak : 12/11/09 at 7:33 PM.

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Old 12/11/09, 6:01 PM   #3229
Bigcheezee
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Burning Blade
Originally Posted by Yiatsek View Post
Guys i just put black magic enchant and i am also have problems with haste cap etc.

What i mean , my stats are:
haste rating 933 : 28,45%
My base cast time is 1.84s on AB
i put black magic(250)
i am troll mage that means berserking 20%
and i can open IV also 20%

With IV and berserk together , bm enchant and with my base haste i can have 1.2 cast time ,, that ,means with totem on raids (5%) i can catch gcd? That means when shamans open BL i must dont use IV-Berserk ? (i am thinking to use IV berserk without bl and with bl i can drink a pot or something)

Is there any solution? i mean what is the cap and if i dont use that enchant is better ?

Ty for understanding!
Make a macro that swaps out your weapon with Black magic for a weapon with 63 SP on it that way you wont hit GCD

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Old 12/11/09, 11:47 PM   #3230
Valkuros
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Area 52
Has anyone else noticed a loss in DPS as arcane since 3.3 came out?
My starts at 2545 Sp 30.1% crit 459 haste and 312hit and a 56/3/12 spec...I seem to have lost almost 1,000 points of dps...Am I the only one to experience this?

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Old 12/12/09, 12:43 AM   #3231
Falcon213
Von Kaiser
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Illidan
Originally Posted by Yiatsek View Post
My base cast IV and berserk together , bm enchant and with my base haste i can have 1.2 cast time ,, that ,means with totem on raids (5%) i can catch gcd? That means when shamans open BL i must dont use IV-Berserk ? (i am thinking to use IV berserk without bl and with bl i can drink a pot or something)
The 8% haste from a fully-buffed raid still won't put you under 1s, but heroism will. Just don't use IV or berserking during heroism and you should never have problems clipping the GCD.

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Old 12/12/09, 3:21 AM   #3232
Enreekay
Glass Joe
 
Enreekay's Avatar
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Dunemaul
delete please

Last edited by Enreekay : 12/12/09 at 3:31 AM. Reason: irrelevent post

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Old 12/12/09, 6:43 AM   #3233
Rugz
Von Kaiser
 
Rugz's Avatar
 
Gnome Mage
 
Azuremyst (EU)
Originally Posted by Valkuros View Post
Has anyone else noticed a loss in DPS as arcane since 3.3 came out?
My starts at 2545 Sp 30.1% crit 459 haste and 312hit and a 56/3/12 spec...I seem to have lost almost 1,000 points of dps...Am I the only one to experience this?
With Scorchio no longer tracking Missile Barrage I did notice a drop off of DPS for a little while at the start of 3.3, however it picked back up again to normal levels once I got used to the new addon trackers I use now. It's possible you could be overspamming Arcane Blast without noticing MBarr procs and evocating more often.

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Old 12/12/09, 8:49 AM   #3234
 Wizeowel
old and slow
 
Wizeowel's Avatar
 
Human Mage
 
Nordrassil (EU)
Originally Posted by Valkuros View Post
Has anyone else noticed a loss in DPS as arcane since 3.3 came out?
My starts at 2545 Sp 30.1% crit 459 haste and 312hit and a 56/3/12 spec...I seem to have lost almost 1,000 points of dps...Am I the only one to experience this?
There's no 1000dps loss from any change in mechanics. However, 1000dps is approximately the amount of damage that you would gain from CoE/E&M/EP. Have you checked your combat logs to see if this is being applied?

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Old 12/13/09, 1:28 PM   #3235
CmanG
Glass Joe
 
Troll Mage
 
Duskwood
Has there been any BiS list made for Arcane or any other mage specs for ICC yet?

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Old 12/13/09, 2:57 PM   #3236
Pyrella
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Mage
 
Kel'Thuzad
Originally Posted by myztikrice View Post
And with 312 hit as arcane I'm pretty sure you weren't even doing 1000 dps in the first place.
I don't know if you mean to say that 312 hit is above or below where you want to be as arcane, though neither of those judgments would be accurate. The soft cap for arcane can be insanely low. 3% from the frost talent, 3% from the arcane talent and 3% from raid utility (misery, imp. FF), bring the hit cap down to 8%. If you're alliance and you're a draenei or have one in your group, you can bring it to 7%. At 26.23 hit rating per 1% at level 80, that's 210 and 184 hit rating respectively.

From there you can just start taking points out of hit talents to make up for the the abundance of it on gear. 312 isn't that bad at all, and I've seen mages with even more than that do a hell of a lot of DPS.

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Old 12/13/09, 5:41 PM   #3237
Clonzo
Glass Joe
 
Gnome Mage
 
Alterac Mountains
Originally Posted by CmanG View Post
Has there been any BiS list made for Arcane or any other mage specs for ICC yet?
A good starting point without using 277 loot will be to pickup 4/5 Bloodmage set with the crafted tailoring pants. Then spend some frost badges on the haste belt and fill in the rest using rawr.

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Old 12/13/09, 10:56 PM   #3238
Valindil
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Jubei'Thos
The first thing you need to be striving for is our 2 piece T10 because it is just so ridiculously strong. The fastest way to get this is to get shoulders + gloves for 60 badges each. It is generally agreed however that our T10 gloves are the worst itemized piece, and our chest is the worst for T9 content, so I would advise waiting the extra week or less to get the T10 chest as your second piece. It also depends on what 258 T9 you managed to get.

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Old 12/13/09, 11:14 PM   #3239
Fooky
Glass Joe
 
Undead Mage
 
Tanaris
With the new AoE spell cap mechanics, is Arcane Explosion a definite winner over Blizzard now in aoe situation in which you'll hit the cap? (e.g. Onyxia Whelps)

I hit Ony today and the difference in time that we needed to AoE down the adds was so significantly longer.. I was using PoM+Flamestrike followed up by Blizzard and was almost crying seeing the aoe nerf in full effect.

Since I read that crits are not included within aoe cap, does that mean that I should PoM+Flamestrike and spam arcane explosion afterwards?

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Old 12/14/09, 12:12 AM   #3240
Valindil
Von Kaiser
 
Human Mage
 
Jubei'Thos
Originally Posted by Fooky View Post
I hit Ony today and the difference in time that we needed to AoE down the adds was so significantly longer.. I was using PoM+Flamestrike followed up by Blizzard and was almost crying seeing the aoe nerf in full effect.
What? The way blizzard works out damage in AoE with more targets then the damage cap (now 10 targets) is exactly the same except now the cap is considerably larger (the damage you'd do to 10 targets rather then the old fixed caps), unless I'm gravely mistaken in no way should you have nerfed dps against Onyxian whelps.

As for Blizzard vs AE, as any other spec you should be [FS + Blizzard] but for Arcane it's going to be tight and depend largely on what your haste is at as blizzard will gain much larger bonus's from haste.

With ~3000 spellpower, 60% Crit (~700 rating) and 36% haste (~800 rating) (in raid)

Blizzard hit avg = 886 | Blizzard crit avg = 1612 | Blizzard avg = 0.4 * 886 + 0.6 * 1612 = 1321.6
Blizzard avg dps = 1321.6 / (1 (tick per second unhasted) / (1 + 800 (haste rating) / 32.79 (haste per %) / 100) / 1.05 (wrath) / 1.03 (pally buff) / 1.06 (Netherwind)) = 1884.71dps

AE hit avg = 1335 | AE crit avg = 2475 | AE avg = 0.4 * 1335 + 0.6 * 2475 = 2019
AE avg dps = 2019 / (1.5 (GCD unhasted) / (1 + 800 (haste rating) / 32.79 (haste per %) / 100) / 1.05 (wrath) / 1.03 (pally buff) / 1.06 (Netherwind)) = 1919.5dps

Against multiple targets:

Blizzard = 1884.7 * 10 / number of targets = 188847dps / number of targets
Arcane Explosion = 1919.5 * 10 / number of targets = 19195dps / number of targets

It would seem that with the stats I mentioned AE is slightly better than blizzard. Blizzard however increases its dps faster then AE as you gear up due to haste. Either way however if you include error bars in my working, differences in gearing and RNG i would say they would end up about the same.

I did my calculations using a hand calculator so I imagine they're quite rough and someone probably could do a better job with a spreadsheet. It would also depend largely on other spirit, int, setbonus's etc which I haven't factored in, I just used easy numbers to make the maths simple.

Last edited by Valindil : 12/14/09 at 12:41 AM.

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