The Arcane thread - Page 220

Daytrader · 12/30/09, 12:35 PM

Can anyone with 2PT10 please confirm if the proc is applied to the MBAM that consumes the charge?

EDIT: someone responded to me on the mmo boards.

The buff is gained after the last AM pulse has left your hands. And if you interrupt the cast before all 5 have been fired, you'll gain it then.

Astrylian · 12/30/09, 3:24 PM

Originally Posted by Daytrader

Can anyone with 2PT10 please confirm if the proc is applied to the MBAM that consumes the charge?

EDIT: someone responded to me on the mmo boards.

The buff is gained after the last AM pulse has left your hands. And if you interrupt the cast before all 5 have been fired, you'll gain it then.

If you interrupt the AM by starting an AB, does it still apply the haste to the AB?

I think all our theorycraft had expected it started the haste upon consuming MB; ie, when the AM started. This sounds like a significant change.

Daytrader · 12/30/09, 3:45 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

If you interrupt the AM by starting an AB, does it still apply the haste to the AB?

I think all our theorycraft had expected it started the haste upon consuming MB; ie, when the AM started. This sounds like a significant change.

From what the poster says, the haste proc begins when the channel ends. This seems like an interesting mechanic. The MBAM proc buff disappears when the channel begins, so up until this i also assumed that it applied when the MBAM started rather than ended. More information will be available as more mages get 2 piece.

I checked to see if the mage that posted this information has 2pt10, and he does.

Posted 1hr ago on wowhead:

"It is applied after the spell that proc this ends, which is a very nice DPS boost. Pushing the Limit is the name of the buff."

Brandox · 12/30/09, 5:19 PM

I've been playing around with the 2pT10 bonus and the buff is indeed applied after MB is finished casting.

Pushing the Limit lasts 5 seconds, and I'm able to get a hasted 4th AB if I'm able to start casting right as the 3rd AB finishes. The small amount of testing was on Test Dummies without Wrath of Air totem. With another 5% haste, I expect the buff to last throughout all 4 AB's. (On dummies, I'm unbuffed at 3244spp and 894 haste)

I'm expecting the need to get Missile Barrage off at less than 4 stacks if and only if we are forced to move, and would not have enough time to refresh our AB stack.

So, I'm looking for a haste "requirement" to go along with this 2pT10 bonus that allows all 4 AB to receive the benefit.

As more testing goes on, I'd expect the main idea to be keeping this buff up at all times. So as I said before, being smart about using Missile Barrage will be key.

Valindil · 12/31/09, 1:13 AM

Originally Posted by Brandox

So, I'm looking for a haste "requirement" to go along with this 2pT10 bonus that allows all 4 AB to receive the benefit.

I got my 2pcT10 today and did a few tests with it to determine the haste values needed and the rotations to use. It is true that the 12% buff will occur when the spell that proc'd it ends. Assuming full raids buffs (Swift Retribution and Wrath of air) and talents (Netherwind Focus) this means:

Haste Values needed for corresponding rotations

Rotation............|..Buffs........|..Haste value needed
ABx4 -> ABAM...|..None........|..552
ABx5 -> ABAM...|..None........|..1829
ABx5 -> ABAM...|..BM + PoS..|..1079
ABx5 -> ABAM...|..IcyVeins....|..978
ABx5 -> ABAM...|..IV + BM....|..728
ABx5 -> ABAM...|..IV + PoS...|..478
ABX5 -> ABAM...|..Heroism....|..650
ABx5 -> ABAM...|..IV + Hero..|..0

EDIT: You should however not need to use ABx5, and instead use the final milliseconds of the buff to haste the MBAM. This should give a very high up-time % for the haste buff unless MB doesn't proc on the first 3 AB's. Thus making arcane a flat rotation of ABx4 -> MBAM unless fishing for procs

Astrylian · 12/31/09, 2:37 AM

Just because you can fit 5 ABs between each MBAM doesn't mean you necessarily should though, for optimal DPS (assuming an MB proc in the first 3).

Todomeda · 12/31/09, 3:54 AM

I have another question regarding our Absorption-Talent:

Is it possible to say when it is better to switch from the Spell/Spirit Legenchant to the Spell/Stam one? Does Rawr calculate the Bonus-Spelldamage from the additional stamnia whenn IA procs? Not only regarding TotGC but also the upcoming fights in ICC? I just don't know if i can trust Rawr in that point without talking about it.

Astrylian · 12/31/09, 4:25 AM

Yes, if you have Rawr configured to value IA (ie, have the talent, and set it to give you incoming damage, and a shield), then it will correctly model the DPS value of stamina. (EDIT: And the negative DPS value of resists, for that matter).

Alezio · 12/31/09, 5:36 AM

Haven't seen it mentioned yet but its worth noting that if you clip MBAM with AB the first AB does not benefit from the additional haste yet the proc still starts effectivly cutting short your hasted proc time. Yet another reason not to clip missiles.

Kavan · 12/31/09, 7:42 AM

Here's some preliminary numbers based on updated 2T10 behavior (buff proc on channel end). As usual, these numbers were generated with a specific set of gear, you can verify things for your case with cycle analyzer once a new release of Rawr gets out (suggested with the model without ABar).

State Descriptions: ABx,ABary,MBz+-,2T10=w
x = number of AB stacks
y = remaining cooldown on Arcane Barrage
z = remaining time on Missile Barrage
+ = Missile Barrage proc visible
- = Missile Barrage proc not visible
w = remaining time on 2T10 effect

0: AB0,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
1: AB1,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
2: AB2,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
3: AB3,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
4: AB4,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
5: AB0,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=4.8: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
6: AB0,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=1.591129: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
7: AB1,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0.07669318: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
8: AB2,ABar0,MB13.48556+,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
9: AB3,ABar0,MB11.7906+,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
10: AB4,ABar0,MB10.09563+,2T10=0: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
11: AB1,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=3.285564: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
12: AB0,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0.07669306: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
13: AB2,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=1.771129: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
14: AB3,ABar0,MB0-,2T10=0.2566931: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
15: AB3,ABar0,MB13.48556+,2T10=0.2566931: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles
16: AB2,ABar0,MB13.48556+,2T10=1.771129: 0=Arcane Blast 1=Arcane Missiles

00000000001000000: 8971.714 dps, 214.612 mps = ABSpam4MBAM

ArcaneBlast4: 9.75%
2T10:ArcaneBlast0: 18.05%
2T10:ArcaneBlast1: 18.05%
2T10:ArcaneBlast2: 18.05%
2T10:ArcaneBlast3: 18.05%
MBAM4: 18.05%

00000000001000011: 8860.256 dps, 154.0977 mps, 1.841849 dpm tradeoff = ABSpam234MBAM

ArcaneBlast4: 12.00%
2T10:ArcaneBlast0: 22.22%
2T10:ArcaneBlast1: 22.22%
2T10:ArcaneBlast2: 13.33%
2T10:ArcaneBlast3: 8.00%
MBAM4: 8.00%
2T10:MBAM3: 5.33%
2T10:MBAM2: 8.89%

00001000111000111: 8254.041 dps, 45.96448 mps, 5.606189 dpm tradeoff = AB34AM234MBAM (go to 4 stack only if 2T10 is not up and MB hasn't procced)

ArcaneBlast0: 5.42%
ArcaneBlast1: 5.42%
ArcaneBlast2: 3.25%
ArcaneBlast3: 1.95%
ArcaneMissiles4: 0.70%
MBAM4: 1.25%
2T10:ArcaneBlast0: 21.82%
MBAM3: 1.30%
MBAM2: 2.17%
2T10:ArcaneBlast1: 21.82%
2T10:ArcaneBlast2: 13.09%
2T10:ArcaneMissiles3: 4.71%
2T10:MBAM3: 8.38%
2T10:MBAM2: 8.73%

00010000111000111: 8176.253 dps, 37.48338 mps, 9.171976 dpm tradeoff = AB3AM23MBAM

ArcaneBlast0: 6.00%
ArcaneBlast1: 6.00%
ArcaneBlast2: 3.60%
ArcaneMissiles3: 1.30%
2T10:ArcaneBlast0: 21.78%
MBAM3: 2.30%
MBAM2: 2.40%
2T10:ArcaneBlast1: 21.78%
2T10:ArcaneBlast2: 13.07%
2T10:ArcaneMissiles3: 4.70%
2T10:MBAM3: 8.36%
2T10:MBAM2: 8.71%

00100000101000111: 8041.828 dps, 27.40411 mps, 13.33683 dpm tradeoff = AB23AM23MBAM (go to 3 stack if you're under 2T10 and MB hasn't procced)

ArcaneBlast0: 7.32%
ArcaneBlast1: 7.32%
ArcaneMissiles2: 2.63%
2T10:ArcaneBlast0: 21.68%
MBAM2: 4.68%
2T10:ArcaneBlast1: 21.68%
2T10:ArcaneBlast2: 13.01%
2T10:ArcaneMissiles3: 4.68%
2T10:MBAM3: 8.33%
2T10:MBAM2: 8.67%

Wand: 525.4374 dps, -224.138 mps, 29.88124 dpm tradeoff

Daytrader · 12/31/09, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Just because you can fit 5 ABs between each MBAM doesn't mean you necessarily should though, for optimal DPS (assuming an MB proc in the first 3).

It would make more sense to cast MBAM (if proced) in place of the 5th AB. This would hasten that MBAM and keep the proc rolling.

Feylna · 12/31/09, 3:38 PM

Originally Posted by Alezio

Haven't seen it mentioned yet but its worth noting that if you clip MBAM with AB the first AB does not benefit from the additional haste yet the proc still starts effectivly cutting short your hasted proc time. Yet another reason not to clip missiles.

Knowing this it may become finally beneficial to have a macro specifically for interrupting your MBAM (assuming you found a reason to do so).

Something like:
/stopcasting
/cast [no channeling] Arcane Blast

This would ensure that you have stopped casting the MBAM Server Side and therefore have gained the buff Server Side.

Saizul · 12/31/09, 4:05 PM

Does anyone know if the 4 pc proc will occur if you cancelaura on the MBAM? (ie macro or right click the buff off)

Ataxus · 12/31/09, 4:12 PM

Originally Posted by Saizul

Does anyone know if the 4 pc proc will occur if you cancelaura on the MBAM? (ie macro or right click the buff off)

It will not occur if Missile Barrage is cancelled. An Arcane Missiles must be cast, even if no pulses are allowed to come out.

Valindil · 12/31/09, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Daytrader

It would make more sense to cast MBAM (if proced) in place of the 5th AB. This would hasten that MBAM and keep the proc rolling.

That's indeed correct. As pointed out a MBAM has far higher dps then 4 stack AB so obviously its more intuitive to haste your MBAM. I'll make the corrections on my post.