The Arcane thread - Page 244

Kavan · 04/08/10, 2:08 PM

The main reason why Rawr selects a mix of AB4AM0234MBAM and ABSpam0234MBAM for you is because you have the mana regen tools disabled. With 2T10 and normal raid buffs a mix of ABSpam04MBAM and ABSpam034MBAM is a lot more common.

Paulten · 04/13/10, 5:23 AM

So just to change topics a bit. Have we seen the numbers for when haste becomes less important and spellpower or criit becomes a better stat. For example, my armory (look at my character), I have 1177 haste, some of that is through gems, but most of it is through my gear and such. Rwar tells me to gem mostly SP... but I dont understand why gemming SP over haste would be beneficial in the long run.

Through all my gems which I focused haste over other stats I gain 162 haste. That translates to 4.94% cast time reduction. If I were to regem my gear for SP over haste since I have so much haste and SP would become more important, I would gain 154 SP, 60 spirit which would be a very marginal benefit from my Molten Armor, and some 40 Crit (less then 1% gain).

My problem right now is that I dont understand how that SP bonus, spirit, and crit would be better then my 4.94 haste rating. My thought process, if I can cast that much faster and crit 2 times in a row, I have already done more DPS then gaining the SP and crit.

If anyone can link me, or explain to me the better idea on how to approach this please do so. I have been following these forums (and have read all WtLK posts) on this site. Thank you.

semata · 04/13/10, 8:19 AM

Haste scales with itself so the tendency is for it to become more valuable, not less. Tracing the history of haste's value, it had gone from being almost as good as SP to even better than SP over the last two tiers. As always consult Rawr to find the exact value of each stat for your character, but for your situation (162 haste vs 154 sp + 40 crit + 60 spirit), just adding the numbers up should tell you that the right hand side has a massive numerical advantage. Crit and spirit are nowhere near as valuable as haste, however their values are not zero. Don't try to covert the ratings into percentages.

However, with regards to gemming the answer is much more straightforward. Runed Cardinal Ruby gives +23 SP whereas Quick King's Amber only gives +20 haste. Rawr is telling you go get rid of those +haste gems for +sp gems because for 23 SP quite clearly superior to 20 haste - in order for them to be equivalent, haste would have to be worth 15% more than spellpower point for point. In practice, you will probably want Reckless Ametrine (12 sp +10 haste).

As for your "thought process" in comparing crit/haste/sp, all I can say is that you cannot base your reasoning on assuming you'll be critting twice in a row when stacking haste.

Infidelx · 04/15/10, 11:53 AM

Now that Incanter's Absorption has been nerfed, has a "best spec" been determined.

Given ICC as our playground and all the different fights in there requiring some different mechanics, what is best?

Overall there are about 2-3 talent points that are flexible for us, so I am wondering where we can place them for the most bang for our buck.

Slow?
Arcane Stability?
Magic Absorption? (I speced this for a week and didn't see a huge benefit)
Student of the Mind?

Just curious if the final verdict is out.

Nikko · 04/15/10, 2:45 PM

If you are working on heroic LK I'd consider Magic Absorption mandatory. It makes a huge difference when a shield is enough to remove infest or if you need another heal afterword.

Infest: 17,672 - 19,828

Shadow Aura (130 resist) - 10% reduction (25% chance), 20% reduction (50% chance), 30% reduction (25% chance)

MA + Shadow Aura (210 resist) - 10% reduction (2.5% chance), 20% reduction (27.5% chance), 30% reduction (47.5% chance), 40% reduction (22.5% chance)

Aura Mastery (260 resist) - 20% reduction (15% chance), 30% reduction (40% chance), 40% reduction (35% chance), 50% reduction (10% chance)

MA + Aura Mastery (340 resist) - 30% reduction (25% chance), 40% reduction (50% chance), 50% reduction (25% chance)

Moiranda · 04/16/10, 10:48 AM

I've been looking around the forums but havn't found a clear answer. Also, I'm horrible at math. As an arcane spec, at exactly which haste values does the cast time of arcane blast drop 0.1 seconds (provided no procs of black magic or whathaveyou)

Seems to me that getting more haste is only useful if it actually does lower the cast time. 20 haste rating might be better then 20 SP on paper, but if those 20 haste doesn't lower the actual cast time, it's essentially wasted, no? Or does it provide another benefit I'm unaware of?

Vaporeon · 04/16/10, 11:07 AM

Originally Posted by Moiranda

I've been looking around the forums but havn't found a clear answer. Also, I'm horrible at math. As an arcane spec, at exactly which haste values does the cast time of arcane blast drop 0.1 seconds (provided no procs of black magic or whathaveyou)

Seems to me that getting more haste is only useful if it actually does lower the cast time. 20 haste rating might be better then 20 SP on paper, but if those 20 haste doesn't lower the actual cast time, it's essentially wasted, no? Or does it provide another benefit I'm unaware of?

I think what you are inquiring about is what level of haste that would provide a 0.1 sec decrease in cast time on the tooltip. This type of inquiry would be faulty for several reasons. First, while perhaps your tooltip might not display in the hundredths or the thousandths, that level of cast time reductions are indeed being made and effect the game in terms of cast times. Alternatively, outside of the sheer increase in speed of your casts, haste would situationally ease the need for movement during cast (say for instance you are mid cast, and you need to move for fire, the quicker you finish the cast the quicker you can move [I realize that some argument might be had with not cancelcasting and moving immediately]). Third, as reiterated out a few posts back, haste scales considerably better the more of it you acquire, as well as the more haste containing effects you stack together (up to capping).

TL;DR: No, it is not wasted.

BeeLz · 04/16/10, 11:09 AM

Originally Posted by Moiranda

I've been looking around the forums but havn't found a clear answer. Also, I'm horrible at math. As an arcane spec, at exactly which haste values does the cast time of arcane blast drop 0.1 seconds (provided no procs of black magic or whathaveyou)

Seems to me that getting more haste is only useful if it actually does lower the cast time. 20 haste rating might be better then 20 SP on paper, but if those 20 haste doesn't lower the actual cast time, it's essentially wasted, no? Or does it provide another benefit I'm unaware of?

I don't understand what you mean exactly but every single point of haste lowers your cast time until you reach the global cooldown cap.

• Kuener · 04/16/10, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by Moiranda

I've been looking around the forums but havn't found a clear answer. Also, I'm horrible at math. As an arcane spec, at exactly which haste values does the cast time of arcane blast drop 0.1 seconds (provided no procs of black magic or whathaveyou)

Seems to me that getting more haste is only useful if it actually does lower the cast time. 20 haste rating might be better then 20 SP on paper, but if those 20 haste doesn't lower the actual cast time, it's essentially wasted, no? Or does it provide another benefit I'm unaware of?

I think your looking at it wrong, Spell cast times go past tenths of a second. As well haste works on percentages, the higher percent the better. Casting at say 11% haste over 10% haste is going to be a huge difference over the course of a fight. When you start getting higher haste ratings casting at 28% faster over 27% is still a huge advantage even if your not noticing it down to the tenth of the second.

Moiranda · 04/16/10, 12:08 PM

Oh, I wasn't insinuating that haste is a bad stat in any means. Of course I see the benefit of casting faster. I was just curious exactly how that mechanic worked. My castbar only shows time in tenth of a second. So I might be casting my AB's at 1.5 seconds (on my cast bar) but .. I'm actually casting at say, 1.47 seconds? Is that correct?

I was under the assumption that it was simply rounded of to the nearest tenth of a second. And if that were the case, the important haste values would be to reach another 0.1 decrease in casttime.

Soo.. true or false, haste rating is never wasted (unless you are at the 1.0 sec cap)?

On an unrelated topic.. is using /stopcast macros for AB still a good thing? I was under the assumption that the client did this automagically ever since sometime back in BC.

zathras666 · 04/16/10, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by semata

zathras666, IMHO, the more likely reason that 4pct10 seem to be undervalued for you is probably that you don't have Mirror Image enabled. Go to Options -> Spells & Buffs and make sure that the box next to Mirror Image is ticked.

Yup, mirror image is on. Turning if off reduces my dps by 343. So I'm getting a pretty good boost out of 4pT10, just maybe not as much as an arcance spec. Trying out higher level gear does indeed increase the difference between offset and 4pT10, so Paulten, I think your explanation fits.

Well, my other spec is arcane. So it's there if I ever want to turn to the dark side.

I have no doubts about arcane being the highest dps spec. I'd just like to come across a mage on my server that can out damage me (dps is another matter). Be nice to see a good arcane mage in action to motivate me to spend the gold to re-gem and activate my arcane spec.

I know this is not the place to ask, but...Rawr 2.3.13 -- the talents specs have all disappeared. The only thing thats remains is Custom. Wondering how to get them back. Rawr 2.3.14 fresh install -- after loading my character and just looking at things (not changing anything), most of the values in the Stats tab changed to "0". Hm.

Vaporeon · 04/16/10, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Moiranda

Oh, I wasn't insinuating that haste is a bad stat in any means. Of course I see the benefit of casting faster. I was just curious exactly how that mechanic worked. My castbar only shows time in tenth of a second. So I might be casting my AB's at 1.5 seconds (on my cast bar) but .. I'm actually casting at say, 1.47 seconds? Is that correct?

I was under the assumption that it was simply rounded of to the nearest tenth of a second. And if that were the case, the important haste values would be to reach another 0.1 decrease in casttime.

Soo.. true or false, haste rating is never wasted (unless you are at the 1.0 sec cap)?

On an unrelated topic.. is using /stopcast macros for AB still a good thing? I was under the assumption that the client did this automagically ever since sometime back in BC.

It is never wasted.

Kermits-finger · 04/16/10, 4:03 PM

I've gone back 5 pages looking for what this is supposed to be "AB4AM0234MBAM" or this "ABSpam0234MBAM", can someone please help me out?

Arcane Blast (4) Arcane Missile (0234) <---- the 0234 is the part that is really confusing me and for that matter what the hell is "MBAM" is that supposed to be some abbreviation for Missile Barrage?

Forgive my ignorance and thanks for any clarification.

Astrylian · 04/16/10, 4:11 PM

AB4AM0234MBAM = Arcane Blast x4, then Arcane Missiles. When Missile Barrage has visibly proc'd at 0, 2, 3, or 4 stacks, use Missile Barrage'd Arcane Missiles.

ABSpam0234MBAM = Arcane Blast xSpam (don't use Arcane Missiles). When Missile Barrage has visibly proc'd at 0, 2, 3, or 4 stacks, use Missile Barrage'd Arcane Missiles.

Vaporeon · 04/16/10, 4:16 PM

Originally Posted by Kermits-finger

I've gone back 5 pages looking for what this is supposed to be "AB4AM0234MBAM" or this "ABSpam0234MBAM", can someone please help me out?

Arcane Blast (4) Arcane Missile (0234) <---- the 0234 is the part that is really confusing me and for that matter what the hell is "MBAM" is that supposed to be some abbreviation for Missile Barrage?

Forgive my ignorance and thanks for any clarification.

MBAM is Missile Barrage Arcane Missiles

AM is Arcane Missiles

AB is Arcane Blast

When it says 0234, or 4, or 34, it means that you need to expend the MBAM at that many stacks of Arcane Blast. So something like 0234MBAM would have you expend Missile Barrage as soon as it procs (but NOT cancelcasting or delaying an AB cast[this is why its 0234 and not 01234, as the 1 would be a dps loss to cast on, by the time you receive the message telling you that you have a missile barrage you should already be casting the next arcane blast]).