bombdigie

25 spell power +2% int (27 int)

27 int =

405 mana
.162% crit = 7.44 crit rating
4 spell power
243 mana per evocate = 2 mana/5
5 mana/5 from replenishment

Totals:

29 spell power
7.44 crit rating
7 mana/5
405 base mana

vs.

21 crit rating
3% crit damage
require 2 blue gems

If you are to replace 2 red gems for 2 blue gems, thats -20 spell power.
If you are to replace 2 yellow gems(orange) for 2 blue gems, thats -16 haste or -16 intellect.
Its a non-issue I suppose if you have blue gem slots in your gear, but I don't. Cloak from Sarth and Neck for Maly Quest are the only items I can think of that would have a blue gem slot that you would actually wear.

I'm getting a 1% dps increase for the crit meta vs. 825 mana over a 5 minute fight.

It is the best but I still prefer the 25 power and 2% int.


Frostfirebolt Dot works.

 

Vallren

I have been following this thread and the thread it deviated from (Upcoming Mage Changes) and I have seen no mention of this.

In regards to Arcane Potency, has anyone noticed that if you attain Clearcasting upon the channel of Arcane Missles, each missle gains the 30% crit buff IN ADDITION to the Arcane Barrage? (Basically a Potency Combo if you will) It is such a difficult event to reliably reproduce but during my guild's 10 man it seemed that every time Clearcasting went off UPON CASTING the spell (Has to be upon casting it seems), most (if not all) of the missles would crit in addition to the Arcane Barrage.

In addition, having clearcasting proc right before Arcane Missles doesn't seem to grant the crit bonus to missles. It sounds like the Channel portion of the spell consumes the buffs but is not applied to the missles, and conversly the missles do not consume the buff but they gain the crit bonus.

On a final note, I left the Missles run their course a few times without Barraging and the 5th missle correctly removes Potency.

Can anyone else clarify if this is happening or am I going insane?

Setting things on fire since Open Beta

 

Celani

Did you test this on an actual boss? The combat dummies aren't immune to the snare, but raid bosses may be.

 

Linyu

what are "Gloves" when spoken about stacking bloodlust/evo /" Gloves"

 

Carnivean

Hyperspeed Accelerators, Engineering only Enchant for Gloves.

 

epoh

Again - The only mage skill that triggers TtW on BOSSES is Slow. Frostbolt and Frostfirebolt and a few others work on other mobs, but boss dmg is the main topic of disccussion.

 

Celani

This is what I meant. Discussion of a debuff list should be limited to what works on bosses only.

 

Linyu

so is stacking IV + popping haste pot when IV gets to 15 seconds then evoing when both hit 1 second the best possible time for evo?

 

Mathies

Rawr, in the newly-added Arcane+Scorch model, places Arcane+Scorch over Frostfire, but (of course) under Arcane+IcyVeins. At least, in my gear set, numbers being respectively:

Frostfire(0/53/18): 5070.73
Arcane+Scorch(53/18/0): 5245.73
Arcane+IcyVeins(57/3/11): 5519.62

Your mileage will vary with your gear set, of course =)

 

• Astrylian

I can explain that... Rawr provides a universal Talent Specs chart that shows up for all models by default. The 2nd one is a custom chart that Rawr.Mage provides. Rawr.Mage has some optimizations in it, that it only bothers trying cycles that are potentially useful to your current spec, when comparing different things. ie, if you're deep fire, it's not going to bother trying frostbolt spam, to save cpu time. The built-in Talent Specs chart doesn't know about that, so it's basically trying your current cycle in every spec. The one Rawr.Mage provides knows what's going on, and specifically finds the best cycles for each spec. So use the bottom one.

Yes, we know that's annoying, and confusing, and we're working on a fix (hiding the built-in one if the model provides one).

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Icos

Couple things. First, your 57/3/11 is off a bit. Student of the Mind would provide a very slight DPS increase, while magic attunement does not. The same goes for Magic Absorbtion, No effective increase in DPS in every fight (the mana back COULD be on fights where resisting is possible).


Also, something for the future. We'll probably end up needing glyph of mage armor when we get into t8 and lose our 2pc bonus from t7.

 

Kavan

I would contend against this as a methodology. As I have argued in the dynamic cycles thread looking at dpm (at least in the classical sense as it is most often used) of a spell is not necessarily a good indicator of performance. It is good in the absence of something to compare it against, when the alternative is not casting anything. In reality you will have two cycles to balance (in the simplified problem) and you can only talk about performance of cycles in terms of what they are paired with. It is not hard to construct an example when given a high dps cycle, the better cycle to pair it with is the one with lower dpm (but better dpm tradeoff).

 

◊ manly

Well I'm overly simplifying things since I had to wrap up my post so I could get to work. Thats the basic thing, most people don't realize that it takes a lot of time to write all of that up, and its nowhere near anything complete.

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

gatina

I was thinking to get myself a [Soul of the Dead]; It would be an amazing mp5 playing an arcane build.
Did anyone try / think about using this?

 

dralarn

Thanks so much for your work, Manly. Its obvious you have put a lot of time into this and we appreciate it.

Do you have any questions or items which we could help you test? Please let us know and we'll help out.


Do you have a WWS for this? This type of data is very helpful when making posts regarding your DPS.


I also wanted to add a note regarding Arcane Stability which has been shamelessly taken from the wowhead comments: Arcane Stability - Spell - World of Warcraft

Each attack on a channeled spell will reduce the remaining duration by 25%, for a maximum of two attacks (50% reduction). If I'm correctly interpreting how this talent works, it reduces that amount by 20/40/60/80/100%. So here's the amount of cast time lost per hit as a function of the number of points spent in this talent:

0 points –> 1.25s lost per hit –> 2.5s lost for two hits
1 points –> 1.00s lost per hit –> 2.0s lost for two hits
2 points –> 0.75s lost per hit –> 1.5s lost for two hits
3 points –> 0.50s lost per hit –> 1.0s lost for two hits
4 points –> 0.25s lost per hit –> 0.5s lost for two hits
5 points –> 0.00s lost per hit –> 0.0s lost for two hits

Now I'm going to assume that the bolts from AM come every second, on the second. So if you had a cast time of 2.5 seconds, you would fire two bolts (one at t=1, and one at t=2), leaving an extra 0.5 seconds in which you channel the spell for nothing. So here's how many bolts you would get if you took one hit:

0 points –> 3.75s cast time –> 3 bolts
1 points –> 4.00s cast time –> 4 bolts
2 points –> 4.25s cast time –> 4 bolts
3 points –> 4.50s cast time –> 4 bolts
4 points –> 4.75s cast time –> 4 bolts
5 points –> 5.00s cast time –> 5 bolts

and if you took two hits:

0 points –> 2.5s cast time –> 2 bolts
1 points –> 3.0s cast time –> 3 bolts
2 points –> 3.5s cast time –> 3 bolts
3 points –> 4.0s cast time –> 4 bolts
4 points –> 4.5s cast time –> 4 bolts
5 points –> 5.0s cast time –> 5 bolts

So here's how many extra bolts this talent would give you:

Rank 1 –> 1 extra bolts (if hit once), 1 extra bolts (if hit twice)
Rank 2 –> 1 extra bolts (if hit once), 1 extra bolts (if hit twice)
Rank 3 –> 1 extra bolts (if hit once), 2 extra bolts (if hit twice)
Rank 4 –> 1 extra bolts (if hit once), 2 extra bolts (if hit twice)
Rank 5 –> 2 extra bolts (if hit once), 3 extra bolts (if hit twice)

-----

In summary, here is what the talent provides on its own:

0 points –> 3 bolts (1 hit) –> 2 bolts (2 hits)
1 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 3 bolts (2 hits)
2 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 3 bolts (2 hits)
3 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 4 bolts (2 hits)
4 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 4 bolts (2 hits)
5 points –> 5 bolts (1 hit) –> 5 bolts (2 hits)


Here is what the talent provides with concentration aura in effect:

0 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 3 bolts (2 hits)
1 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 3 bolts (2 hits)
2 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 4 bolts (2 hits)
3 points –> 4 bolts (1 hit) –> 4 bolts (2 hits)
4 points –> 5 bolts (1 hit) –> 5 bolts (2 hits)
5 points –> 5 bolts (1 hit) –> 5 bolts (2 hits)

-----

UPDATE: Without concentration aura, you should only place 1, 3 or 5 points in this talent; with concentration aura, you should only use 2 or 4 points as additional points are wasted.

Obviously, this assumes that the damage taken occurs before the specified number of bolts.

 

Kavan

I think we could use more testing regarding pushback on channeled spells. Do we know if the pushback is based on base cast time or on hasted? For example will Missile Barrage AM lose the same amount of ticks as normal AM or more? It also feels that the exact number of ticks lost depends on when in the channel exactly the pushback happens. Rawr right now does not model pushback on channeled spells accurately, so information on this would definitely help.

I've also looked at some comparisons regarding clipping of 5th AM tick in barrage cycles. From some preliminary numbers it seems that clipping the AM is better unless your reliability of executing the combo is above 80%. I have noticed something important though and it feels that it might be more optimal to use a different clipping strategy when AM is hasted or when not. More modeling will have to be done to answer this question.

 

Roywyn

I guess I have to repeat myself.

Every fight I've seen requires me to run into my position. There is no fight in which I can stand still from the pull to the kill.
So, Magic Attunement saves me 3 yards running, just from running in less. If I have to reposition myself in the fight or have to wait for mobs to get in range (Anub'rekan, Maexxna web, Grobbulus, Blaumeux/Zeliek, Sapphiron, Kel'thuzad adds), it saves me those 3 yards even more often.

3 yards as far as I know takes about half a second to run.
Saving half a second in a 5 minute fight is a 0.16% DPS increase per talent point, which from my Rawr values is more than Student of the Mind.
That is just the absolute minimum you get every fight, for many fights it's a lot more. Plus having higher range is a significant advantage for Anub'rekan/Malchezaar/Maexxna, and a free flask for your healer can't be bad either.

Thaddius is the only fight where the extra range offers zero benefit (you start the fight in range), but Stability/Absorption are likely better in this fight anyway.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

diag

Zaldinar found that FFB double dip from mind mastery before 3.0.8, is it still the case? I am thinking about POM FFB or POM shatter ABar(for crit).

 

manapaws

Reading the patch notes would have answered this. It says Elemental Precision renamed Precision and now grants 3% hit.

 

Vallren

Or maybe you should read what he typed instead of skimming and inferring from your vast pool of knowledge. He asked about Mind Mastery, which is a talent in arcane that grants Spellpower based on 15% of your current Intellect. It was discovered some time ago that FFB doubled dipped this talent, and he was simply pondering if this still was the case. (Granted he could easily check himself but seriously, read the post please. :/.)


On a different note, I still am unable to reproduce this Arcane Potency phenomena I mentioned earlier in a reliable fashion. If I can get a few screenshots of it I will post them but clearcasting is not wanting to work with me here.

Setting things on fire since Open Beta

 

Klatzy

My impressions going from frost to FFB to arcane spec. With about 1600 spellpower, 18-22% crit (dependent on spec), hit capped, and 5-6% haste.

As frost I was averaging about 2300-2500 dps on single target bosses.

As FFB (I was probably lacking enough crit to make the spec) I was averaging 2800-3200 dps, 4th among the mages, who are better geared than me and all FFB spec. They were running from 3500-4000 for the most part.

As arcane (57/3/11) I was averaging 3200-3800, a noticeable increase.

What struck me about the playstyle was how much attention it required. Part of that is the newness. But a significant part is how many factors need to dealt with.

1) mana issues, you need to monitor your mana to know when to ease off, go full blast, and calculate when you can gem/pot/evo.

2) cooldowns, with arcane power, icy veins and dps trinkets etc. I usually burned most cooldowns early to maximize their usage. Lacking a buff such as molten the health of the boss is not an issue. So tried to stack dmg increases during AP+IV pops.

3) the dynamic cycles made me more aware of mana/cooldowns/dps synergies. The spec is fun and more demanding it seems than FFB.

On target dummies the spec seems lackluster and easily oom. But in raid situations mana is much less a concern.

On thing that I think is more useful than some give it, is magic absorption. In a few fights, the mana returned from periodic spell aura damage etc (, extended the mana pool significantly.

 

◊ manly

I highly suggest you have a look at the TTT. I know I edited an article that was extremely specific on the matter. As far as I know, its always 0.5s (without talents) per pushback, and the way it interacts with channelled spells is that it can clip off the ending 'charges'. Also, it always ticks at very precise intervals, pushbacks or not, which means that it will not, in fact, tick on your bar at 20% (for example) in the case of a pushback. Think of it like 'it ticks precisely at the final_cast_time/number_of_ticks interval, and pushback only clip off extra ticks at the end. Also, I know the article had precise details about what happens client-side if you cast AM, and get one pushback. Does it stops before the end ? (ie: channel lasts 4 seconds) or keeps on going for a tick that never happens ? I know its in there somewhere, I just dont recall the precise answer.

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Ezu

This is kind of annoying for me, I have to stay 18-53 fire for scorch because I am the only mage in my "serious" 10man caster heavy nerdchievements group, since this is the case I've volunteered to be scorch bitch for the 25mans as well. Oh well. Guess it isn't so bad though, did 9.5k dps on thaddius last night as the new fire/totw build and I wasn't even hitcapped until the last wing of naxx when dying curse dropped thank god. I placed between top 3-5 usually as fire/totw per fight and ended up highest dmg done overall on all bosses.

 

◊ manly

I'll be honest and say that right now I see no reason ever to go any fire build over 51/20/0. And yes I do mean everything it means in between the lines too.

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bug Arcane Potency only applies to the first Arcane Missile bolt.

 

Ezu

Has anyone actually tried 51/20? , no icy veins while only being able to pick from slow or 1/5 missile barrage while still needing hit cap for scorch seems kind of aids to deal with :/