In theory,under the talent of 57/3/11,Arcane Blast should have a crit chance 6% more than Arcane barrage,but through the WWS parse I found AB's crit chance often surpass 10% than that of ABrr in a full Naxx run.And someone told me that in his test on the dummy,Arcane blast crit 146 out of 525,Arcane Barrage crit 87 out of 521.His talent is 57/3/11,and his crit on board shows 16.45%.there is no BUFF and DEBUFF both on him and on the dummy.
Could anyone explane it?
In theory,under the talent of 57/3/11,Arcane Blast should have a crit chance 6% more than Arcane barrage,but through the WWS parse I found AB's crit chance often surpass 10% than that of ABrr in a full Naxx run.And someone told me that in his test on the dummy,Arcane blast crit 146 out of 525,Arcane Barrage crit 87 out of 521.His talent is 57/3/11,and his crit on board shows 16.45%.there is no BUFF and DEBUFF both on him and on the dummy.
Could anyone explane it?
I just skimmed through the last 10 hours of my WWS and noticed my AB crit 8-9% more than Abarr in almost every fight but Loetheb where it crit 10% more. Mighty odd. I'm not sure on the math but I'm sure Arcane Potency is the culprit. I don't suspect any sort of bug in case that's what you were implying.
This piqued my interest, so I decided to have a look for myself. Sample size is fairly small, so results could be explained by RNG still. How I tested was to cast AB abarr (chain casting, spamming abarr at the end of the AB cast, and spamming AB at the end of the abarr GCD) on a level 80 target dummy for a while. My character sheet crit chance was 17.09%.
Of 527 Arcane Blasts cast, 141 crit, giving crit % of 26.8%
Of 526 Arcane Barragecast, 88 crit, giving crit % of 16.7%
My explanation is as follows:
Clearcasting has a 10% chance to proc, and when it procs so does Arcane Potency, increasing the crit chance of the next damaging spell by 30%. I believe it's safe to approximate this to a straight 3% extra crit on average. However, from the looks of the combat log, when casting AB abarr, if AB procs clearcasting, the abarr doesn't benefit unless I intentionally delay between casting AB and abarr. If I spam abarr as AB finishes casting (shatter combo style) then clearcasting/arcane potency skips the abarr, and is still up for the next AB I cast. That AB consumes cc/AP immediately when cast.
So the net result is that it seems abarr isn't able to benefit from CC proccing off the previously cast AB if you spam cast abarr as soon as possible.
The above makes sense, just like we know FoF FrB+IL combo works (and the ABarr-AM combo that worked for a few days) due to buffs wearing off has some kind of a server delay, it won't be surprising if buff application is also delayed. Same kind of thing is observed when you divine shield or iceblock, get the spell casted message in your combat log and have the spell go on cooldown, yet you still die. Another example is having a heal land on a dead player (normally the heal is forced to cancel when the cast is complete on a dead target, but if it happens at the right time it will land even though the target is dead). Similar effects were observed when trying to figure out how much casting time your fireballs need to successfully stack ignites in a beneficial way (while it wasn't the reason ignites were behaving like that, buff/debuff application delay was observed there as well).
That said, anyone tested if ABarr actually gets the 3 stack AB bonus when you spam it during the 3rd AB cast?
That said, anyone tested if ABarr actually gets the 3 stack AB bonus when you spam it during the 3rd AB cast?
It strangely seems to always get the 3 stack bonus. I tested this a lot when they first added the mechanic because I was quite skeptical it would. Not sure how it works. If you proc a trinket no your third AB cast, you also seem to always get the bonus on that barrage cast. Very weird...
radikalnoise.com :: Dicks, Strats, Drama, eFame, and More Dicks
FH - LF 1 Baller PvE Mage
All noncrit DoTs (not Ignite) generate Combustion charges (Bug?)
It strangely seems to always get the 3 stack bonus. I tested this a lot when they first added the mechanic because I was quite skeptical it would. Not sure how it works. If you proc a trinket no your third AB cast, you also seem to always get the bonus on that barrage cast. Very weird...
Same thing holds for AM and MB procs - if you cast AB and immediately cast AM afterward, you will get the benefit of a MB proc from that AB.
I have been playing around with the Egg of Mortal Essence, after reading that it was proccing off of arcane missiles. Yes, it will probably get fixed some time soon, but I had nothing else worthwhile to buy with the badges.
It looks like it gets a proc chance off of each AM tick. I used a 2AB - 3 stack MBAM on proc rotation, and on average it procced about 20 seconds into each internal cooldown reset. Embrace of the Spider procs faster, but since the internal cooldown is far bigger, functionally the two trinkets are almost identical right now for arcane. That makes this one of the best trinkets for arcane. Well behind dragon soul, slightly behind embrace, ahead of sundial and dying curse.
Embrace of the Spider procs faster, but since the internal cooldown is far bigger, functionally the two trinkets are almost identical right now for arcane.
AFAIK both trinkets have a 45s internal cooldown, are you suggesting this is not the case?
<Vontre> I removed the cooldown on evo
<sancus> and what happened?
<Vontre> DPS went down rofl
No I think he's just saying that since it can only proc off AM and embrace can proc off everything embrace will on avg. have a higher uptime.
Yes. Since the Egg only procs off of AM, it will take a bit longer, on average, for it to proc after the internal cooldown has reset. 20 seconds for Egg in my testing, versus ~10 for the Embrace. That yields a proc about once every 65 seconds for the Egg, and every 55 seconds for the Embrace. That does make the Embrace slightly better, but it is actually a very minor dps difference (~15 dps), making the Egg the third best arcane trinket right now. My hunch is that a lot of arcanists are in a similar trinket boat as I am - knowing what the best trinkets are but having no luck with drops for 1 or both of them.
First, what is the best rotation for this spec? I use ABx3 then Abarr. If missile barrage procs, I do an AM after 3 stacks of AB instead. I'm wearing full epics but I still manage to go oom right before the boss dies. I even use my mana gem at 70% mana, and evocation at 40% mana but my next CD for them doesn't come up soon enough to prevent my from going oom. This means I have to lose dps wanding or limiting my rotation to no more than ABx2, Abarr. I also have to limit myself to using AP and IV only once during each fight, which I pop during heroism. Is there a better rotation I can use that would allow me to sustain constant dps without lowering it?
My next question is, how much dps is exactly one point of Hit, SP, Haste, Intellect, and Crit worth? I would like to know which stats I should make a priority stacking for. Right now I have about 470 haste. I'm beginning to think that my haste is what's driving me oom on every fight, and was wondering if I should replace my haste with more SP instead. Also, would the 25 SP meta gem be better than the 3% crit? Crit isn't worth as much for arcane spec now and a lot of SP is wasted on the 2 blue gems requirement.
My Last question is, what rotation should I use to maximize my dps during heroism? I understand that if my GCD falls below 1s, then using Abarr would be a loss in dps. Should I just do an AM after every ABx3 regardless of missile procs during heroism?
Finally, I heard that the Egg of Mortal Essence procs on AM now. Should I buy that or is it going to be fixed soon?
First, what is the best rotation for this spec? I use ABx3 then Abarr. If missile barrage procs, I do an AM after 3 stacks of AB instead. I'm wearing full epics but I still manage to go oom right before the boss dies. I even use my mana gem at 70% mana, and evocation at 40% mana but my next CD for them doesn't come up soon enough to prevent my from going oom. This means I have to lose dps wanding or limiting my rotation to no more than ABx2, Abarr. I also have to limit myself to using AP and IV only once during each fight, which I pop during heroism. Is there a better rotation I can use that would allow me to sustain constant dps without lowering it?
My next question is, how much dps is exactly one point of Hit, SP, Haste, Intellect, and Crit worth? I would like to know which stats I should make a priority stacking for. Right now I have about 470 haste. I'm beginning to think that my haste is what's driving me oom on every fight, and was wondering if I should replace my haste with more SP instead. Also, would the 25 SP meta gem be better than the 3% crit? Crit isn't worth as much for arcane spec now and a lot of SP is wasted on the 2 blue gems requirement.
My Last question is, what rotation should I use to maximize my dps during heroism? I understand that if my GCD falls below 1s, then using Abarr would be a loss in dps. Should I just do an AM after every ABx3 regardless of missile procs during heroism?
Finally, I heard that the Egg of Mortal Essence procs on AM now. Should I buy that or is it going to be fixed soon?
Did you take a look at the first post in this thread? Whatever you can't find there, you can find in the following discussions.
([] denotes conditional statement. Cast only on missile barrage proc.)
(example: AB [AB AB mbarr] abarr indicates: "AB abarr" (without mbarr proc) and "AB AB AB mbarr abarr" when mbarr procs)
so for the highest dps rotation you should be casting ABx3 then abarr, (mbarr,abarr at 0 or 3 stack) ??
wouldn't you be putting out more dps if you were to spam AB untill mbarr procs then do mbarr,abarr (at 0 or 3 stack) and then go back to spamming AB?
You will do more dps for the first ~30-60sec of the fight, and afterwards you'll be oom and have to use one of the much lower dps rotations. For total damage done you're better off mixing rotations the way rawr recommends you (which will generally be the first bold rotation during cooldowns, and mixing the 2nd bold rotations with either the 1st or the 3rd when you don't have cooldowns so that you always have mana to use the first during cooldowns and go oom exactly at the end of the fight). During extreme cooldown stacking it may be worthwhile to do the top dps rotation for a short duration, depending on which and how many cooldowns you're actually stacking and possibly dependant on your mana too. You can get all the accurate information if you use rawr.
so for the highest dps rotation you should be casting ABx3 then abarr, (mbarr,abarr at 0 or 3 stack) ??
wouldn't you be putting out more dps if you were to spam AB untill mbarr procs then do mbarr,abarr (at 0 or 3 stack) and then go back to spamming AB?
Always use mbarr at 3 stack unless you are doing the AB spam rotation. I know it doesn't make sense intuitively, but for some reason it is working out like that.
You should also note that these cycles manly has posted are really intended for average players running 5 or 10 mans, possibly (probably) without replenishment. In 25 mans it is almost silly to use anything but the AB3Abarr3C rotation as your normal rotation (I almost exclusively use it outside of 25 mans too because usually the fight lengths scale pretty well such that I rarely find myself mana starved). Under AP, it's almost always a better idea to ABSpam3MBAM or ABSpam3C (depending on what haste buffs you have) because AB gains DPM from AP (the mana increase from AP is applied to the unstacked AB mana cost, so it's essentially a minimal increase in mana cost for a huge increase in damage).
ok i raid 25 mans i dont really care to do 10,5's so the rotaton i would use is AB AB AB [mbarr] abarr? and when i have cooldowns and i think i wont go oom i can use the top rotation on the chart? i also trade focus magic with the other 2 mages in my raids would it be better for one of us to pass it to the ele shaman so we have more of a chance for him to proc elemental oath?
ok i raid 25 mans i dont really care to do 10,5's so the rotaton i would use is AB AB AB [mbarr] abarr? and when i have cooldowns and i think i wont go oom i can use the top rotation on the chart? i also trade focus magic with the other 2 mages in my raids would it be better for one of us to pass it to the ele shaman so we have more of a chance for him to proc elemental oath?
If you have 3 mages you should all be trading focus with eachother.
So mage A casts it on mage B, mage B casts it on mage C, and mage C casts it on mage A, that was all of you have focus magic and you all have basically have 6% more crit.
Yes. Since the Egg only procs off of AM, it will take a bit longer, on average, for it to proc after the internal cooldown has reset. 20 seconds for Egg in my testing, versus ~10 for the Embrace. That yields a proc about once every 65 seconds for the Egg, and every 55 seconds for the Embrace. That does make the Embrace slightly better, but it is actually a very minor dps difference (~15 dps), making the Egg the third best arcane trinket right now. My hunch is that a lot of arcanists are in a similar trinket boat as I am - knowing what the best trinkets are but having no luck with drops for 1 or both of them.
My thoughts exactly. The egg is a vendor sold item that is nearly on par with Embrace of the Spider, but people are wary of it because it "only procs on one spell." It has five chances to proc per MB. That's a 50% chance, which is pretty high.
I've done tests and it's better than Cannoneer's Fuselighter, the second best trinket I have. Personally I'm rocking the Egg and Sundial since I haven't seen the Embrace drop yet.
Hopefully Kavan finds the time to update this on Rawr.Mage soon, since it's throwing off my results.
It is pretty easy to ballpark its dps. For my gear, rawr currently places its dps at 127.04, completely ignoring the proc. Embrace, with identical spell damage is valued at 217.96. That puts the value of the proc from embrace at 911 dps. Since you get the proc ~20% less often (every 65 seconds instead of every 55), the value of that proc on the Egg is 78 dps for a total of 205 dps. That is 17 dps ahead of sundial.
My proc delay estimates are not an exact science, certainly, but it would require an extremely large differential in trinket uptime for the Egg to drop down into "inferior" territory.
I do expect this to get fixed, so dont get mad when that happens. But if you have nothing better to spend badges on, any amount of time is bonus.
Always use mbarr at 3 stack unless you are doing the AB spam rotation. I know it doesn't make sense intuitively, but for some reason it is working out like that.
The math is pretty clear and has been posted upthread. Intuitively I suspect that the reason is that there is an additional cost to waiting for the 3 stack to cast your mbam unique to AB spam: you drop your 3 stack of the AB debuff. If you are spamming AB, casting your MBAM at the 0 stack instead of waiting for the 3 stack means that one of two things can happen:
1) You get no mbarr proc and so continue spamming AB at the 3 stack and so will cast fewer low dps unstacked ABs (win) or
2) You get a second mbarr proc that you would have wasted otherwise (win again).
When you are using a rotation, you are dropping the 3 stack every time, so you loose the benefit of #1. This makes it worthwhile to use only at the 3 stack because AM, being a high damage spell, will receive more from the AB stack bonus. Additionally (though I'm less sure of this part) using mbam at the 0 stack in a rotation will lengthen the rotation, pushing your 3 stack casts farther apart, causing you to have fewer 3 stack buffed casts in the fight.
The only way (when using a rotation) that waiting for the 3 stack could be a bad thing is if you waste an mbarr proc and this is relatively rare compared to the other benefits.
* Arcane Power now increases damage and mana cost by 10%, cooldown reduced to 1 minute.
* Arcane Power and Presence of Mind now share a category cooldown. Arcane Power causes a 15 second cooldown. Presence of Mind, once consumed, causes a 1.5 second cooldown.
* Arcane Flows now reduces the cooldown of Presence of Mind, Arcane Power and Invisibility by 15/30%.
* Presence of Mind: The cooldown has been reduced to 2 minutes, (down from 3.)
* Slow (Arcane): now increases cast time by 30%, down from 60%.
Glyphs
* Glyph of Arcane Missiles -- Increases the critical strike damage bonus of Arcane Missiles by 25%. (Old - Increases the range of Arcane Missiles by 5 yards.)
* Glyph of Mana Gem -- Increases the mana recieved from using a mana gem by 40%. (Up from 10%)
* Glyph of Arcane Blast -- Increases the damage from your Arcane Blast buff by 3%. (Down from 5%)
Extremely needed nerfs to arcane PvP wise going live, hopefully doesn't tamper all too much with PvE dps. Unclear whether or not AM gets any benefit from the AB glyph, but at least we don't need to wait for long to find out!
02/06/09, 6:41 PM
Similar Threads
