The Arcane thread - Page 47

dedmonwakeen · 01/29/09, 10:09 PM

Originally Posted by renegadeofunk

I've been using Simulationcraft with Wowhead to determine the dps increase of each piece of gear, but I'm starting to think its inaccurate with Arcane. I noticed that the rotation is hard coded to use Mage Armor for 57/3/11. Does that mean the scale factor for spirit (currently 0.61) is more inflated than it should be on fights where I'm using Molten Armor? I always thought 0.61 was awfully high compared to Intellect's 1.09, considering the many more benefits Int gives you over Spirit.

Would a simple calculation of 0.61 * (0.3 / 0.8) approximate Spirit's worth when using Molten Armor?

Someday soon I'll make it easy for people to push single-player profiles through the sim so that they can easily get custom scale-factor generation.

Until then, Rawr.Mage is by far your best avenue to personalized analysis........

Probably even "after then", too.

Kavan · 01/30/09, 5:58 AM

Well it looks like I have some explaining to do. It appears I had a typo when I was typing in the transition matrix (the meaning of the typo was that it treated barrage procs at 1 stack as not yet visible, even if they should be, so there wasn't any error in cast distribution, just in spell selection logic). It didn't have any effect on the top optimal cycles, but it changes optimality in the lower mps range. Luckily I found this out right in time to add the missing optimal cycles to 2.1.9 release of Rawr (like almost not in time). Additionally I added a button in the advanced section that will compute the optimal range of cycles for your gear (using the control string notation I described before) so you can check if maybe some cycle is optimal for you that is not currently in the list used by Rawr.

The optimal cycles are (using the new Rawr notation, kind of a mix of some suggestions from here):

ABSpam03C (AB spam, MBAM-ABar at 0 or 3 stack): 5028.084 dps, 412.3207 mps
ABSpam3C (AB spam, MBAM-ABar at 3 stack): 5013.697 dps, 395.6343 mps
AB3ABar3C (ABx3-ABar, MBAM-ABar at 3 stack): 4801.682 dps, 237.0959 mps
ABABar3C (AB-ABar, MBAM-ABar at 3 stack): 4668.696 dps, 181.7985 mps
ABABar2C (AB-ABar, MBAM-ABar at 2 stack): 4566.665 dps, 145.9942 mps
ABABar2MBAM (AB-ABar, MBAM at 2 stack): 4500.556 dps, 128.9478 mps
ABABar1MBAM (AB-ABar, MBAM at 1 stack): 4445.778 dps, 116.023 mps
ABAM (AB-AM): 3743.657 dps, 73.89004 mps

And here's all unique cycles if someone wants to compare:

000000000:
4873 dps
667.0336 mps
AB3:	100.00%

000000001:
4375.217 dps
225.4426 mps
AB0:	25.00%
AB1:	25.00%
AB2:	25.00%
ABar3:	25.00%

000000002:
5025.849 dps
429.1485 mps
AB0:	13.89%
AB1:	13.89%
AB2:	13.89%
AB3:	44.44%
MBAM3:	13.89%

000000012:
4765.28 dps
232.0735 mps
AB0:	25.00%
AB1:	25.00%
AB2:	25.00%
ABar3:	13.00%
MBAM3:	12.00%

000000022:
4590.732 dps
198.9034 mps
AB0:	25.00%
AB1:	25.00%
AB2:	25.00%
AM3:	12.80%
MBAM3:	12.20%

000000100:
4193.525 dps
143.5273 mps
AB0:	33.33%
AB1:	33.33%
ABar2:	33.33%

000000201:
4777.002 dps
363.0865 mps
AB0:	19.15%
AB1:	19.15%
AB2:	8.51%
MBAM2:	10.64%
AB3:	34.04%
ABar3:	8.51%

000000202:
5015.028 dps
428.8401 mps
AB0:	14.29%
AB1:	14.29%
AB2:	11.43%
MBAM2:	2.86%
AB3:	45.71%
MBAM3:	11.43%

000000211:
4635.936 dps
204.9311 mps
AB0:	27.97%
AB1:	27.97%
AB2:	16.09%
MBAM2:	11.88%
ABar3:	16.09%

000000212:
4700.472 dps
210.9928 mps
AB0:	27.40%
AB1:	27.40%
AB2:	17.81%
MBAM2:	9.58%
ABar3:	14.25%
MBAM3:	3.56%

000000221:
4501.846 dps
183.7065 mps
AB0:	27.10%
AB1:	27.10%
AB2:	18.69%
MBAM2:	8.41%
ABar3:	3.74%
AM3:	11.96%
MBAM3:	2.99%

000000222:
4552.713 dps
187.6397 mps
AB0:	26.32%
AB1:	26.32%
AB2:	21.05%
MBAM2:	5.26%
AM3:	13.47%
MBAM3:	7.58%

000001002:
4653.748 dps
189.3474 mps
AB0:	29.60%
AB1:	29.60%
AB2:	11.21%
ABar2:	18.38%
MBAM3:	11.21%

000001200:
4550.752 dps
154.96 mps
AB0:	33.33%
AB1:	33.33%
ABar2:	20.70%
MBAM2:	12.63%

000002002:
4273.017 dps
137.7491 mps
AB0:	31.25%
AB1:	31.25%
AB2:	6.25%
AM2:	20.00%
MBAM2:	5.00%
MBAM3:	6.25%

000002200:
4210.187 dps
120.9661 mps
AB0:	33.33%
AB1:	33.33%
AM2:	21.33%
MBAM2:	12.00%

000010000:
4126.035 dps
100.7045 mps
AB0:	50.00%
ABar1:	50.00%

000020001:
4735.036 dps
368.8326 mps
AB0:	21.74%
AB1:	10.87%
MBAM1:	10.87%
AB2:	10.87%
AB3:	34.78%
ABar3:	10.87%

000020011:
4569.495 dps
207.0533 mps
AB0:	30.70%
AB1:	19.30%
MBAM1:	11.40%
AB2:	19.30%
ABar3:	19.30%

000020012:
4725.372 dps
221.7594 mps
AB0:	27.58%
AB1:	22.42%
MBAM1:	5.16%
AB2:	22.42%
ABar3:	14.35%
MBAM3:	8.07%

000020021:
4458.553 dps
187.6015 mps
AB0:	28.81%
AB1:	21.19%
MBAM1:	7.63%
AB2:	21.19%
ABar3:	7.63%
AM3:	10.85%
MBAM3:	2.71%

000020101:
4732.344 dps
367.1816 mps
AB0:	22.22%
AB1:	11.11%
MBAM1:	11.11%
AB2:	8.89%
ABar2:	2.22%
AB3:	35.56%
ABar3:	8.89%

000020102:
4960.586 dps
414.3267 mps
AB0:	16.22%
AB1:	13.51%
MBAM1:	2.70%
AB2:	10.81%
ABar2:	2.70%
AB3:	43.24%
MBAM3:	10.81%

000020111:
4557.247 dps
196.9194 mps
AB0:	31.93%
AB1:	20.08%
MBAM1:	11.85%
AB2:	16.06%
ABar2:	4.02%
ABar3:	16.06%

000020112:
4623.818 dps
202.664 mps
AB0:	30.69%
AB1:	21.46%
MBAM1:	9.23%
AB2:	17.16%
ABar2:	4.29%
ABar3:	13.73%
MBAM3:	3.43%

000020121:
4442.413 dps
177.2227 mps
AB0:	30.09%
AB1:	22.12%
MBAM1:	7.96%
AB2:	17.70%
ABar2:	4.42%
ABar3:	3.54%
AM3:	11.33%
MBAM3:	2.83%

000020122:
4498.672 dps
181.5269 mps
AB0:	28.57%
AB1:	23.81%
MBAM1:	4.76%
AB2:	19.05%
ABar2:	4.76%
AM3:	12.19%
MBAM3:	6.86%

000020201:
4769.37 dps
377.5872 mps
AB0:	20.93%
AB1:	11.63%
MBAM1:	9.30%
AB2:	9.30%
MBAM2:	2.33%
AB3:	37.21%
ABar3:	9.30%

000020211:
4615.819 dps
204.209 mps
AB0:	30.35%
AB1:	21.83%
MBAM1:	8.52%
AB2:	17.46%
MBAM2:	4.37%
ABar3:	17.46%

000020212:
4691.539 dps
210.8872 mps
AB0:	28.88%
AB1:	23.47%
MBAM1:	5.41%
AB2:	18.78%
MBAM2:	4.69%
ABar3:	15.02%
MBAM3:	3.76%

000020221:
4489.358 dps
182.6797 mps
AB0:	28.16%
AB1:	24.27%
MBAM1:	3.88%
AB2:	19.42%
MBAM2:	4.85%
ABar3:	3.88%
AM3:	12.43%
MBAM3:	3.11%

000021001:
4477.955 dps
160.9638 mps
AB0:	35.63%
AB1:	23.95%
MBAM1:	11.69%
AB2:	4.79%
ABar2:	19.16%
ABar3:	4.79%

000021002:
4574.619 dps
166.5879 mps
AB0:	34.11%
AB1:	26.48%
MBAM1:	7.63%
AB2:	5.30%
ABar2:	21.19%
MBAM3:	5.30%

000021100:
4457.185 dps
145.4302 mps
AB0:	37.42%
AB1:	25.15%
MBAM1:	12.27%
ABar2:	25.15%

000021200:
4523.845 dps
149.86 mps
AB0:	36.02%
AB1:	27.96%
MBAM1:	8.05%
ABar2:	22.37%
MBAM2:	5.59%

000022001:
4207.824 dps
134.8421 mps
AB0:	33.33%
AB1:	27.78%
MBAM1:	5.56%
AB2:	5.56%
AM2:	17.78%
MBAM2:	4.44%
ABar3:	5.56%

000022100:
4175.05 dps
119.2951 mps
AB0:	35.29%
AB1:	29.41%
MBAM1:	5.88%
ABar2:	5.88%
AM2:	18.82%
MBAM2:	4.71%

000100001:
4789.709 dps
417.8658 mps
AB0:	12.20%
MBAM0:	12.20%
AB1:	12.20%
AB2:	12.20%
AB3:	39.02%
ABar3:	12.20%

000100011:
4606.223 dps
238.1226 mps
AB0:	21.78%
MBAM0:	12.86%
AB1:	21.78%
AB2:	21.78%
ABar3:	21.78%

000100012:
4749.522 dps
235.4124 mps
AB0:	23.64%
MBAM0:	5.45%
AB1:	23.64%
AB2:	23.64%
ABar3:	15.13%
MBAM3:	8.51%

000100021:
4470.089 dps
203.0558 mps
AB0:	22.94%
MBAM0:	8.26%
AB1:	22.94%
AB2:	22.94%
ABar3:	8.26%
AM3:	11.74%
MBAM3:	2.94%

000100101:
4788.1 dps
417.286 mps
AB0:	12.50%
MBAM0:	12.50%
AB1:	12.50%
AB2:	10.00%
ABar2:	2.50%
AB3:	40.00%
ABar3:	10.00%

000100102:
4978.925 dps
426.3687 mps
AB0:	13.89%
MBAM0:	2.78%
AB1:	13.89%
AB2:	11.11%
ABar2:	2.78%
AB3:	44.44%
MBAM3:	11.11%

000100111:
4594.002 dps
228.0463 mps
AB0:	22.78%
MBAM0:	13.45%
AB1:	22.78%
AB2:	18.22%
ABar2:	4.56%
ABar3:	18.22%

000100112:
4658.626 dps
226.563 mps
AB0:	23.64%
MBAM0:	10.17%
AB1:	23.64%
AB2:	18.91%
ABar2:	4.73%
ABar3:	15.13%
MBAM3:	3.78%

000100121:
4453.17 dps
192.5336 mps
AB0:	24.04%
MBAM0:	8.65%
AB1:	24.04%
AB2:	19.23%
ABar2:	4.81%
ABar3:	3.85%
AM3:	12.31%
MBAM3:	3.08%

000100122:
4507.339 dps
190.4196 mps
AB0:	25.00%
MBAM0:	5.00%
AB1:	25.00%
AB2:	20.00%
ABar2:	5.00%
AM3:	12.80%
MBAM3:	7.20%

000100201:
4818.666 dps
419.4442 mps
AB0:	12.82%
MBAM0:	10.26%
AB1:	12.82%
AB2:	10.26%
MBAM2:	2.56%
AB3:	41.03%
ABar3:	10.26%

000100211:
4646.789 dps
226.1804 mps
AB0:	23.86%
MBAM0:	9.32%
AB1:	23.86%
AB2:	19.09%
MBAM2:	4.77%
ABar3:	19.09%

000100212:
4714.906 dps
224.5998 mps
AB0:	24.81%
MBAM0:	5.72%
AB1:	24.81%
AB2:	19.85%
MBAM2:	4.96%
ABar3:	15.88%
MBAM3:	3.97%

000100221:
4495.99 dps
189.8762 mps
AB0:	25.25%
MBAM0:	4.04%
AB1:	25.25%
AB2:	20.20%
MBAM2:	5.05%
ABar3:	4.04%
AM3:	12.93%
MBAM3:	3.23%

000101001:
4503.078 dps
186.8467 mps
AB0:	27.11%
MBAM0:	13.23%
AB1:	27.11%
AB2:	5.42%
ABar2:	21.69%
ABar3:	5.42%

000101002:
4598.776 dps
182.9665 mps
AB0:	28.67%
MBAM0:	8.26%
AB1:	28.67%
AB2:	5.73%
ABar2:	22.94%
MBAM3:	5.73%

000101100:
4480.661 dps
170.5386 mps
AB0:	28.67%
MBAM0:	13.99%
AB1:	28.67%
ABar2:	28.67%

000101200:
4544.717 dps
165.7212 mps
AB0:	30.41%
MBAM0:	8.76%
AB1:	30.41%
ABar2:	24.33%
MBAM2:	6.08%

000102001:
4202.726 dps
142.4404 mps
AB0:	29.41%
MBAM0:	5.88%
AB1:	29.41%
AB2:	5.88%
AM2:	18.82%
MBAM2:	4.71%
ABar3:	5.88%

000102100:
4167.918 dps
126.4666 mps
AB0:	31.25%
MBAM0:	6.25%
AB1:	31.25%
ABar2:	6.25%
AM2:	20.00%
MBAM2:	5.00%

001000012:
4521.313 dps
212.8061 mps
AB0:	23.08%
AM0:	7.68%
AB1:	23.08%
AB2:	23.08%
ABar3:	12.00%
MBAM3:	11.07%

001000211:
4410.309 dps
189.5791 mps
AB0:	25.84%
AM0:	7.61%
AB1:	25.84%
AB2:	14.87%
MBAM2:	10.97%
ABar3:	14.87%

001000212:
4445.9 dps
193.4077 mps
AB0:	25.11%
AM0:	8.36%
AB1:	25.11%
AB2:	16.32%
MBAM2:	8.78%
ABar3:	13.06%
MBAM3:	3.26%

001001002:
4344.703 dps
171.6343 mps
AB0:	26.48%
AM0:	10.53%
AB1:	26.48%
AB2:	10.03%
ABar2:	16.45%
MBAM3:	10.03%

001001200:
4231.073 dps
142.862 mps
AB0:	29.43%
AM0:	11.70%
AB1:	29.43%
ABar2:	18.28%
MBAM2:	11.15%

001020011:
4358.7 dps
191.7654 mps
AB0:	28.45%
AM0:	7.33%
AB1:	17.89%
MBAM1:	10.56%
AB2:	17.89%
ABar3:	17.89%

001020012:
4465.3 dps
202.3575 mps
AB0:	25.26%
AM0:	8.41%
AB1:	20.53%
MBAM1:	4.73%
AB2:	20.53%
ABar3:	13.14%
MBAM3:	7.39%

001020111:
4340.439 dps
182.5597 mps
AB0:	29.50%
AM0:	7.60%
AB1:	18.55%
MBAM1:	10.95%
AB2:	14.84%
ABar2:	3.71%
ABar3:	14.84%

001020112:
4385.754 dps
186.6894 mps
AB0:	28.21%
AM0:	8.08%
AB1:	19.72%
MBAM1:	8.49%
AB2:	15.78%
ABar2:	3.94%
ABar3:	12.62%
MBAM3:	3.16%

001020211:
4375.97 dps
187.7878 mps
AB0:	27.86%
AM0:	8.21%
AB1:	20.04%
MBAM1:	7.82%
AB2:	16.03%
MBAM2:	4.01%
ABar3:	16.03%

001020212:
4426.248 dps
192.477 mps
AB0:	26.34%
AM0:	8.77%
AB1:	21.41%
MBAM1:	4.93%
AB2:	17.13%
MBAM2:	4.28%
ABar3:	13.70%
MBAM3:	3.43%

001021001:
4189.142 dps
148.2141 mps
AB0:	31.74%
AM0:	10.92%
AB1:	21.33%
MBAM1:	10.41%
AB2:	4.27%
ABar2:	17.06%
ABar3:	4.27%

001021002:
4243.317 dps
151.6602 mps
AB0:	30.04%
AM0:	11.94%
AB1:	23.32%
MBAM1:	6.72%
AB2:	4.66%
ABar2:	18.66%
MBAM3:	4.66%

001021100:
4160.281 dps
135.4926 mps
AB0:	33.16%
AM0:	11.41%
AB1:	22.28%
MBAM1:	10.87%
ABar2:	22.28%

001021200:
4188.843 dps
138.1343 mps
AB0:	31.51%
AM0:	12.52%
AB1:	24.46%
MBAM1:	7.05%
ABar2:	19.57%
MBAM2:	4.89%

001100011:
4364.7 dps
216.0878 mps
AB0:	20.00%
AM0:	8.19%
MBAM0:	11.81%
AB1:	20.00%
AB2:	20.00%
ABar3:	20.00%

001100012:
4472.891 dps
212.8022 mps
AB0:	21.55%
AM0:	8.83%
MBAM0:	4.97%
AB1:	21.55%
AB2:	21.55%
ABar3:	13.79%
MBAM3:	7.76%

001100111:
4344.444 dps
206.7632 mps
AB0:	20.83%
AM0:	8.53%
MBAM0:	12.30%
AB1:	20.83%
AB2:	16.67%
ABar2:	4.17%
ABar3:	16.67%

001100112:
4392.883 dps
205.083 mps
AB0:	21.55%
AM0:	8.83%
MBAM0:	9.28%
AB1:	21.55%
AB2:	17.24%
ABar2:	4.31%
ABar3:	13.79%
MBAM3:	3.45%

001100211:
4381.653 dps
204.6519 mps
AB0:	21.74%
AM0:	8.90%
MBAM0:	8.49%
AB1:	21.74%
AB2:	17.39%
MBAM2:	4.35%
ABar3:	17.39%

001100212:
4432.205 dps
202.8806 mps
AB0:	22.52%
AM0:	9.23%
MBAM0:	5.19%
AB1:	22.52%
AB2:	18.02%
MBAM2:	4.50%
ABar3:	14.41%
MBAM3:	3.60%

001101001:
4175.662 dps
166.6613 mps
AB0:	23.81%
AM0:	12.19%
MBAM0:	11.62%
AB1:	23.81%
AB2:	4.76%
ABar2:	19.05%
ABar3:	4.76%

001101002:
4238.863 dps
163.1074 mps
AB0:	25.00%
AM0:	12.80%
MBAM0:	7.20%
AB1:	25.00%
AB2:	5.00%
ABar2:	20.00%
MBAM3:	5.00%

001101100:
4142.706 dps
153.3253 mps
AB0:	25.00%
AM0:	12.80%
MBAM0:	12.20%
AB1:	25.00%
ABar2:	25.00%

001101200:
4180.218 dps
149.1775 mps
AB0:	26.32%
AM0:	13.47%
MBAM0:	7.58%
AB1:	26.32%
ABar2:	21.05%
MBAM2:	5.26%

010000002:
4607 dps
165.5761 mps
AB0:	39.53%
AB1:	10.47%
ABar1:	29.07%
AB2:	10.47%
MBAM3:	10.47%

010000200:
4500.556 dps
128.9478 mps
AB0:	44.16%
AB1:	11.69%
ABar1:	32.47%
MBAM2:	11.69%

010020000:
4445.778 dps
116.023 mps
AB0:	50.00%
ABar1:	36.76%
MBAM1:	13.24%

010100000:
4470.896 dps
139.7538 mps
AB0:	42.37%
MBAM0:	15.25%
ABar1:	42.37%

011000002:
4167.809 dps
146.5015 mps
AB0:	33.33%
AM0:	15.69%
AB1:	8.82%
ABar1:	24.51%
AB2:	8.82%
MBAM3:	8.82%

011000200:
4054.817 dps
119.6872 mps
AB0:	36.56%
AM0:	17.20%
AB1:	9.68%
ABar1:	26.88%
MBAM2:	9.68%

011020000:
3974.232 dps
110.3193 mps
AB0:	40.48%
AM0:	19.05%
ABar1:	29.76%
MBAM1:	10.71%

011100000:
3936.925 dps
124.2502 mps
AB0:	33.33%
AM0:	21.33%
MBAM0:	12.00%
ABar1:	33.33%

020000000:
3743.657 dps
73.89004 mps
AB0:	50.00%
AM1:	40.00%
MBAM1:	10.00%

100000002:
5013.697 dps
395.6343 mps
AB0:	13.23%
ABar0:	13.23%
AB1:	13.23%
AB2:	13.23%
AB3:	33.86%
MBAM3:	13.23%

100000012:
4801.682 dps
237.0959 mps
AB0:	22.05%
ABar0:	11.81%
AB1:	22.05%
AB2:	22.05%
ABar3:	10.24%
MBAM3:	11.81%

100000022:
4696.618 dps
216.0878 mps
AB0:	20.00%
ABar0:	20.00%
AB1:	20.00%
AB2:	20.00%
AM3:	8.19%
MBAM3:	11.81%

100000201:
4793.503 dps
343.9868 mps
AB0:	17.98%
ABar0:	10.96%
AB1:	17.98%
AB2:	7.02%
MBAM2:	10.96%
AB3:	28.07%
ABar3:	7.02%

100000202:
4993.058 dps
393.2936 mps
AB0:	13.89%
ABar0:	13.89%
AB1:	13.89%
AB2:	8.89%
MBAM2:	5.00%
AB3:	35.56%
MBAM3:	8.89%

100000211:
4677.315 dps
208.9651 mps
AB0:	25.00%
ABar0:	12.00%
AB1:	25.00%
AB2:	13.00%
MBAM2:	12.00%
ABar3:	13.00%

100000212:
4733.947 dps
214.2965 mps
AB0:	24.29%
ABar0:	13.01%
AB1:	24.29%
AB2:	14.10%
MBAM2:	10.19%
ABar3:	11.28%
MBAM3:	2.82%

100000221:
4597.307 dps
195.0074 mps
AB0:	22.45%
ABar0:	19.90%
AB1:	22.45%
AB2:	12.74%
MBAM2:	9.71%
ABar3:	2.55%
AM3:	8.15%
MBAM3:	2.04%

100000222:
4641.726 dps
198.7249 mps
AB0:	21.55%
ABar0:	21.55%
AB1:	21.55%
AB2:	13.79%
MBAM2:	7.76%
AM3:	8.83%
MBAM3:	4.97%

100001002:
4708.456 dps
201.7105 mps
AB0:	25.87%
ABar0:	11.19%
AB1:	25.87%
AB2:	11.19%
ABar2:	14.68%
MBAM3:	11.19%

100001200:
4609.714 dps
167.9061 mps
AB0:	29.13%
ABar0:	12.60%
AB1:	29.13%
ABar2:	16.53%
MBAM2:	12.60%

100002002:
4492.807 dps
176.4687 mps
AB0:	22.94%
ABar0:	22.94%
AB1:	22.94%
AB2:	8.26%
AM2:	11.74%
MBAM2:	2.94%
MBAM3:	8.26%

100002200:
4412.739 dps
153.3253 mps
AB0:	25.00%
ABar0:	25.00%
AB1:	25.00%
AM2:	12.80%
MBAM2:	12.20%

100020001:
4755.73 dps
351.7363 mps
AB0:	20.55%
ABar0:	11.42%
AB1:	9.13%
MBAM1:	11.42%
AB2:	9.13%
AB3:	29.22%
ABar3:	9.13%

100020002:
5006.817 dps
399.7241 mps
AB0:	13.97%
ABar0:	13.97%
AB1:	11.17%
MBAM1:	2.79%
AB2:	11.17%
AB3:	35.75%
MBAM3:	11.17%

100020011:
4614.116 dps
210.6003 mps
AB0:	27.97%
ABar0:	11.88%
AB1:	16.09%
MBAM1:	11.88%
AB2:	16.09%
ABar3:	16.09%

100020012:
4751.654 dps
223.4984 mps
AB0:	25.08%
ABar0:	13.43%
AB1:	18.20%
MBAM1:	6.88%
AB2:	18.20%
ABar3:	11.65%
MBAM3:	6.55%

100020021:
4547.011 dps
196.7679 mps
AB0:	24.88%
ABar0:	19.32%
AB1:	15.46%
MBAM1:	9.43%
AB2:	15.46%
ABar3:	5.56%
AM3:	7.91%
MBAM3:	1.98%

100020022:
4658.926 dps
206.4994 mps
AB0:	21.74%
ABar0:	21.74%
AB1:	17.39%
MBAM1:	4.35%
AB2:	17.39%
AM3:	8.90%
MBAM3:	8.49%

100020101:
4753.804 dps
349.9518 mps
AB0:	20.93%
ABar0:	11.63%
AB1:	9.30%
MBAM1:	11.63%
AB2:	7.44%
ABar2:	1.86%
AB3:	29.77%
ABar3:	7.44%

100020102:
4951.49 dps
387.5203 mps
AB0:	15.85%
ABar0:	13.66%
AB1:	10.93%
MBAM1:	4.92%
AB2:	8.74%
ABar2:	2.19%
AB3:	34.97%
MBAM3:	8.74%

100020111:
4605.257 dps
202.0221 mps
AB0:	28.90%
ABar0:	12.27%
AB1:	16.63%
MBAM1:	12.27%
AB2:	13.30%
ABar2:	3.33%
ABar3:	13.30%

100020112:
4664.448 dps
207.1786 mps
AB0:	27.71%
ABar0:	12.96%
AB1:	17.56%
MBAM1:	10.15%
AB2:	14.05%
ABar2:	3.51%
ABar3:	11.24%
MBAM3:	2.81%

100020121:
4537.102 dps
188.8397 mps
AB0:	25.68%
ABar0:	19.94%
AB1:	15.95%
MBAM1:	9.73%
AB2:	12.76%
ABar2:	3.19%
ABar3:	2.55%
AM3:	8.17%
MBAM3:	2.04%

100020122:
4585.357 dps
192.7242 mps
AB0:	24.37%
ABar0:	21.01%
AB1:	16.81%
MBAM1:	7.56%
AB2:	13.45%
ABar2:	3.36%
AM3:	8.61%
MBAM3:	4.84%

100020201:
4786.631 dps
358.39 mps
AB0:	19.81%
ABar0:	12.08%
AB1:	9.66%
MBAM1:	10.14%
AB2:	7.73%
MBAM2:	1.93%
AB3:	30.92%
ABar3:	7.73%

100020202:
4997.201 dps
398.7513 mps
AB0:	14.29%
ABar0:	14.29%
AB1:	11.43%
MBAM1:	2.86%
AB2:	9.14%
MBAM2:	2.29%
AB3:	36.57%
MBAM3:	9.14%

100020211:
4658.168 dps
208.5508 mps
AB0:	27.40%
ABar0:	13.15%
AB1:	17.81%
MBAM1:	9.58%
AB2:	14.25%
MBAM2:	3.56%
ABar3:	14.25%

100020212:
4724.257 dps
214.4126 mps
AB0:	26.03%
ABar0:	13.94%
AB1:	18.89%
MBAM1:	7.14%
AB2:	15.11%
MBAM2:	3.78%
ABar3:	12.09%
MBAM3:	3.02%

100020221:
4579.047 dps
193.7495 mps
AB0:	24.02%
ABar0:	21.29%
AB1:	17.04%
MBAM1:	6.98%
AB2:	13.63%
MBAM2:	3.41%
ABar3:	2.73%
AM3:	8.72%
MBAM3:	2.18%

100020222:
4632.073 dps
198.0896 mps
AB0:	22.52%
ABar0:	22.52%
AB1:	18.02%
MBAM1:	4.50%
AB2:	14.41%
MBAM2:	3.60%
AM3:	9.23%
MBAM3:	5.19%

100021001:
4537.194 dps
171.1317 mps
AB0:	32.01%
ABar0:	12.13%
AB1:	19.88%
MBAM1:	12.13%
AB2:	3.98%
ABar2:	15.90%
ABar3:	3.98%

100021002:
4623.876 dps
176.7072 mps
AB0:	30.45%
ABar0:	13.17%
AB1:	21.60%
MBAM1:	8.86%
AB2:	4.32%
ABar2:	17.28%
MBAM3:	4.32%

100021100:
4522.297 dps
158.3694 mps
AB0:	33.33%
ABar0:	12.63%
AB1:	20.70%
MBAM1:	12.63%
ABar2:	20.70%

100021200:
4583.739 dps
163.1693 mps
AB0:	31.83%
ABar0:	13.77%
AB1:	22.57%
MBAM1:	9.26%
ABar2:	18.06%
MBAM2:	4.51%

100022001:
4370.738 dps
158.0342 mps
AB0:	27.10%
ABar0:	23.36%
AB1:	18.69%
MBAM1:	8.41%
AB2:	3.74%
AM2:	11.96%
MBAM2:	2.99%
ABar3:	3.74%

100022002:
4429.983 dps
161.6924 mps
AB0:	25.25%
ABar0:	25.25%
AB1:	20.20%
MBAM1:	5.05%
AB2:	4.04%
AM2:	12.93%
MBAM2:	3.23%
MBAM3:	4.04%

100022100:
4352.255 dps
147.1846 mps
AB0:	28.16%
ABar0:	24.27%
AB1:	19.42%
MBAM1:	8.74%
ABar2:	3.88%
AM2:	12.43%
MBAM2:	3.11%

100022200:
4389.993 dps
150.2722 mps
AB0:	26.32%
ABar0:	26.32%
AB1:	21.05%
MBAM1:	5.26%
AM2:	13.47%
MBAM2:	7.58%

100100001:
4819.097 dps
403.5207 mps
AB0:	10.31%
ABar0:	12.89%
MBAM0:	12.89%
AB1:	10.31%
AB2:	10.31%
AB3:	32.99%
ABar3:	10.31%

100100002:
5028.084 dps
412.3207 mps
AB0:	11.49%
ABar0:	14.37%
MBAM0:	2.87%
AB1:	11.49%
AB2:	11.49%
AB3:	36.78%
MBAM3:	11.49%

100100011:
4661.114 dps
245.1096 mps
AB0:	18.26%
ABar0:	13.48%
MBAM0:	13.48%
AB1:	18.26%
AB2:	18.26%
ABar3:	18.26%

100100012:
4788.23 dps
243.095 mps
AB0:	19.55%
ABar0:	14.43%
MBAM0:	7.39%
AB1:	19.55%
AB2:	19.55%
ABar3:	12.51%
MBAM3:	7.04%

100100021:
4572.496 dps
219.257 mps
AB0:	17.06%
ABar0:	21.33%
MBAM0:	10.41%
AB1:	17.06%
AB2:	17.06%
ABar3:	6.14%
AM3:	8.74%
MBAM3:	2.18%

100100022:
4674.878 dps
216.5314 mps
AB0:	18.18%
ABar0:	22.73%
MBAM0:	4.55%
AB1:	18.18%
AB2:	18.18%
AM3:	9.31%
MBAM3:	8.87%

100100101:
4818.358 dps
402.6773 mps
AB0:	10.53%
ABar0:	13.16%
MBAM0:	13.16%
AB1:	10.53%
AB2:	8.42%
ABar2:	2.11%
AB3:	33.68%
ABar3:	8.42%

100100102:
4987.071 dps
409.732 mps
AB0:	11.49%
ABar0:	14.37%
MBAM0:	5.17%
AB1:	11.49%
AB2:	9.20%
ABar2:	2.30%
AB3:	36.78%
MBAM3:	9.20%

100100111:
4652.876 dps
236.6553 mps
AB0:	18.95%
ABar0:	13.99%
MBAM0:	13.99%
AB1:	18.95%
AB2:	15.16%
ABar2:	3.79%
ABar3:	15.16%

100100112:
4710.147 dps
235.5593 mps
AB0:	19.55%
ABar0:	14.43%
MBAM0:	11.30%
AB1:	19.55%
AB2:	15.64%
ABar2:	3.91%
ABar3:	12.51%
MBAM3:	3.13%

100100121:
4562.414 dps
211.2675 mps
AB0:	17.67%
ABar0:	22.08%
MBAM0:	10.78%
AB1:	17.67%
AB2:	14.13%
ABar2:	3.53%
ABar3:	2.83%
AM3:	9.05%
MBAM3:	2.26%

100100122:
4608.374 dps
209.8934 mps
AB0:	18.18%
ABar0:	22.73%
MBAM0:	8.18%
AB1:	18.18%
AB2:	14.55%
ABar2:	3.64%
AM3:	9.31%
MBAM3:	5.24%

100100201:
4845.695 dps
404.3641 mps
AB0:	10.75%
ABar0:	13.44%
MBAM0:	11.29%
AB1:	10.75%
AB2:	8.60%
MBAM2:	2.15%
AB3:	34.41%
ABar3:	8.60%

100100202:
5018.698 dps
411.6318 mps
AB0:	11.76%
ABar0:	14.71%
MBAM0:	2.94%
AB1:	11.76%
AB2:	9.41%
MBAM2:	2.35%
AB3:	37.65%
MBAM3:	9.41%

100100211:
4700.187 dps
235.2778 mps
AB0:	19.70%
ABar0:	14.54%
MBAM0:	10.60%
AB1:	19.70%
AB2:	15.76%
MBAM2:	3.94%
ABar3:	15.76%

100100212:
4760.14 dps
234.1198 mps
AB0:	20.34%
ABar0:	15.01%
MBAM0:	7.69%
AB1:	20.34%
AB2:	16.27%
MBAM2:	4.07%
ABar3:	13.02%
MBAM3:	3.25%

100100221:
4599.634 dps
209.542 mps
AB0:	18.32%
ABar0:	22.89%
MBAM0:	7.51%
AB1:	18.32%
AB2:	14.65%
MBAM2:	3.66%
ABar3:	2.93%
AM3:	9.38%
MBAM3:	2.34%

100100222:
4647.361 dps
208.1036 mps
AB0:	18.87%
ABar0:	23.58%
MBAM0:	4.72%
AB1:	18.87%
AB2:	15.09%
MBAM2:	3.77%
AM3:	9.66%
MBAM3:	5.43%

100101001:
4573.983 dps
200.8741 mps
AB0:	22.62%
ABar0:	13.80%
MBAM0:	13.80%
AB1:	22.62%
AB2:	4.52%
ABar2:	18.10%
ABar3:	4.52%

100101002:
4659.096 dps
197.9915 mps
AB0:	23.70%
ABar0:	14.45%
MBAM0:	9.72%
AB1:	23.70%
AB2:	4.74%
ABar2:	18.96%
MBAM3:	4.74%

100101100:
4558.606 dps
187.6019 mps
AB0:	23.70%
ABar0:	14.45%
MBAM0:	14.45%
AB1:	23.70%
ABar2:	23.70%

100101200:
4616.253 dps
184.0817 mps
AB0:	24.88%
ABar0:	15.17%
MBAM0:	10.20%
AB1:	24.88%
ABar2:	19.90%
MBAM2:	4.98%

100102001:
4376.457 dps
173.7091 mps
AB0:	20.41%
ABar0:	25.51%
MBAM0:	9.18%
AB1:	20.41%
AB2:	4.08%
AM2:	13.06%
MBAM2:	3.27%
ABar3:	4.08%

100102002:
4436.313 dps
170.8136 mps
AB0:	21.28%
ABar0:	26.60%
MBAM0:	5.32%
AB1:	21.28%
AB2:	4.26%
AM2:	13.62%
MBAM2:	3.40%
MBAM3:	4.26%

100102100:
4356.463 dps
162.4913 mps
AB0:	21.28%
ABar0:	26.60%
MBAM0:	9.57%
AB1:	21.28%
ABar2:	4.26%
AM2:	13.62%
MBAM2:	3.40%

100102200:
4394.435 dps
159.1704 mps
AB0:	22.22%
ABar0:	27.78%
MBAM0:	5.56%
AB1:	22.22%
AM2:	14.22%
MBAM2:	8.00%

101000002:
3983.032 dps
175.8971 mps
AB0:	7.69%
ABar0:	38.46%
AM0:	30.77%
AB1:	7.69%
AB2:	7.69%
MBAM3:	7.69%

101000200:
3880.456 dps
156.8409 mps
AB0:	8.33%
ABar0:	41.67%
AM0:	33.33%
AB1:	8.33%
MBAM2:	8.33%

101020000:
3804.565 dps
152.4855 mps
AB0:	9.09%
ABar0:	45.45%
AM0:	36.36%
MBAM1:	9.09%

101100000:
3762.112 dps
166.5506 mps
ABar0:	50.00%
AM0:	40.00%
MBAM0:	10.00%

110000002:
4668.696 dps
181.7985 mps
AB0:	34.12%
ABar0:	10.59%
AB1:	10.59%
ABar1:	23.53%
AB2:	10.59%
MBAM3:	10.59%

110000200:
4566.665 dps
145.9942 mps
AB0:	38.16%
ABar0:	11.84%
AB1:	11.84%
ABar1:	26.32%
MBAM2:	11.84%

110020000:
4520.057 dps
135.2304 mps
AB0:	43.28%
ABar0:	13.43%
ABar1:	29.85%
MBAM1:	13.43%

110100000:
4560.787 dps
163.9268 mps
AB0:	34.48%
ABar0:	15.52%
MBAM0:	15.52%
ABar1:	34.48%

120000002:
4221.668 dps
146.5883 mps
AB0:	29.41%
ABar0:	29.41%
AB1:	5.88%
AM1:	18.82%
MBAM1:	4.71%
AB2:	5.88%
MBAM3:	5.88%

120000200:
4152.499 dps
129.4312 mps
AB0:	31.25%
ABar0:	31.25%
AB1:	6.25%
AM1:	20.00%
MBAM1:	5.00%
MBAM2:	6.25%

120020000:
4108.792 dps
124.2502 mps
AB0:	33.33%
ABar0:	33.33%
AM1:	21.33%
MBAM1:	12.00%

120100000:
4095.605 dps
133.4249 mps
AB0:	28.57%
ABar0:	35.71%
MBAM0:	7.14%
AM1:	22.86%
MBAM1:	5.71%

200000000:
3087.859 dps
99.59786 mps
AM0:	100.00%

Astrylian · 01/30/09, 6:12 AM

Originally Posted by Kavan

Luckily I found this out right in time to add the missing optimal cycles to 2.1.9 release of Rawr (like almost not in time).

He's not kidding, either. I was mid-upload of 2.1.9, when he said 'Wait!'. Anyway, CodePlex has been doing some maintenance this morning, so if it takes a while for the Rawr site to load, and for the new version to download, that's why; please just be patient.

Systemtemp · 01/30/09, 7:04 AM

Originally Posted by bludex

ok, i like thinking of damage rotations as a big if-else statement. Maybe it's my background in programming, but I just think better this way. So help me make the best DPS arcane if-else statement!

We're just going to write it without taking into account DPS cooldowns like POM, Arcane Power, Icy Veins, trinkets, Managem, and heroism. We also won't take into account innervate from druids.

If AB_debuff = 0
If ABar is off cooldown
cast ABar
else cast AB
If AB_debuff = 1
cast AB
If AB_debuff = 2
cast AB
If AB_debuff = 3
If MBar = active
cast AM
else If Evocate is off cooldown
If Mana < 40%
cast Evocate
else cast AB
else cast ABar

My only real question about the rotation is what if you have 2 stacks of the AB_Debuff and you're in the middle of casting your third and MBarr has yet to proc. I know this was mentioned earlier in this thread but I can't seem to find a definitive answer.
The 2 options I see:
After the third Arcane Blast lands, wait a split second to see if MBar procs. If it does, cast AM, if not, cast ABarr.
Just Cast ABarr and if MBar procced, oh well, just wait until you get ABx3 and cast AM.

Do we have the proof of which is better? I'm thinking of just going with the 2nd because its easier to pre-empt it.

Yey!! Someone posting C programming

Let me make it look better :P (with all due respect ofc)

if (AB_debuff == 0) {if (ABar == CD){if (Mana < 40% && Evocate != CD) {/cast Evocate;}
else {/cast AB;}
else {/cast ABar;}
}
if (AB_debuff == 1) {/cast AB;}
if (AB_debuff == 2) {/castsequence reset=combat/target AB, Abarr;}
if (AB_debuff == 3) {if (MBar == active) {/cast AM;}
else {/cast ABar;}

P.S. And If you are casting 3rd AB and MBar is not procced yet, Kavan suggested best rotation as 3rd AB (MBar Procced)-> ABarr (didnt have the time to react) -> AB -> AB -> AB -> MBAM -> ABarr -> AB -> AB ....
P.S.2 Should we evocate always if Mana < 40% and Evocate is not in CD? I think Evocation should rather be chosen by instinct.

Systemtemp · 01/30/09, 7:24 AM

I have edited the C Code by taking ABx2 -> Abarr as the main rotation.. But still when to evocate is under question.

if (MBar == active) {/castsequence reset=combat/target AB, AM;}
else {
if (AB_debuff == 0) {if (ABar == CD){if (Mana < 40% && Evocate != CD) {/cast Evocate;}
else {/cast AB;}
else {/cast ABar;}
}
if (AB_debuff == 1) {/cast AB;}
if (AB_debuff == 2) {/cast Abarr)}
}

Medusa · 01/30/09, 7:59 AM

Still have some problems with Arcane, but maybe because we realy have laggy Raids after the last 'improvements'. On most Bosses in WWS there are 5-7 Melees/Hunter top DPS, only after this we have a WL and me fighting for positions (Last Patchwerk 4200 DPS - 2 Weeks before with FFB i hav 4.7k). But meanwhile i change a little bit my equipp (More Haste/Spirit/MP5 instead of Hit/Crit).

One simply question: what class is best to give Focus magic? FFB mage? Las time i try with a Enh Schaman, it was pretty well.

I think the hardest part is still setting up mana regeneration for longer fights. But with the recent posted sugestion of using AB2Abarr i think most of us will get on it and have a good base for developing their propper rotations.

♦ nathanbp · 01/30/09, 9:00 AM

Originally Posted by Medusa

I think the hardest part is still setting up mana regeneration for longer fights. But with the recent posted sugestion of using AB2Abarr i think most of us will get on it and have a good base for developing their propper rotations.

Actually, according to what Kavan just posted, AB2ABar3C (Rotate ABx2-ABar, on proc, stack AB to 3 before MBAM-ABar) is no longer an optimal rotation. Instead if you can't manage AB3ABar3C you should be doing ABABar3C.

On a different subject, how are people generally starting off fights? I keep seeing people saying to save only evocate on the last tick of icy veins, but you also want to use icy veins as soon as possible. So are you spending the start of the fight doing the max dps combo, then at ~40% mana IV-AP-Gem, then use evocate and switch to a more normal cycle?

Korrigan · 01/30/09, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by Kavan

The optimal cycles are (using the new Rawr notation, kind of a mix of some suggestions from here):

ABSpam03C (AB spam, MBAM-ABar at 0 or 3 stack): 5028.084 dps, 412.3207 mps
ABSpam3C (AB spam, MBAM-ABar at 3 stack): 5013.697 dps, 395.6343 mps
AB3ABar3C (ABx3-ABar, MBAM-ABar at 3 stack): 4801.682 dps, 237.0959 mps
ABABar3C (AB-ABar, MBAM-ABar at 3 stack): 4668.696 dps, 181.7985 mps
ABABar2C (AB-ABar, MBAM-ABar at 2 stack): 4566.665 dps, 145.9942 mps
ABABar2MBAM (AB-ABar, MBAM at 2 stack): 4500.556 dps, 128.9478 mps
ABABar1MBAM (AB-ABar, MBAM at 1 stack): 4445.778 dps, 116.023 mps
ABAM (AB-AM): 3743.657 dps, 73.89004 mps

What happened to AB3ABar03C?

Pintofbrew · 01/30/09, 9:29 AM

Originally Posted by Medusa

One simply question: what class is best to give Focus magic? FFB mage? Las time i try with a Enh Schaman, it was pretty well.

That's a very good question. It really depends if you're optimizing on one of two possible scenaria:

1) You want to have the maximum uptime for you.

2) You want the maximum Raid benefit.

In the first case, I'd suspect an E-shaman would be optimal, due to their higher cast-per-second than a FFB mage, though how much they crit to begin with may change this. Ultimately, you want to know how many crits-per-second the class generates in order to evaluate it correctly. However, an E-shaman critting will increase uptime of Elemental Oath, so now the DPS-return becomes dependent on how their buff influences your DPS too... Extremely complex.

Ultimately, I prefer to give it to whoever's struggling (for good reason that is, not whoever sucks hardest). Both E-shamans and FFB mages gain efficiency from the Crit so whoever is in the worst state with respect to mana would be my choice. In pure DPS terms, as in "who gains more from 3% crit", I'd be surprised if anyone surpassed the FFB mage, purely due to crit size modifier. Having said that, increasing a 60% crit to a 63% is a lot less increase than 45 to 48%.

Strictly, it's very hard to quantify the second, because the possibility of giving it to a healer makes it impossible to estimate. Shamans, Priests and Palas will all benefit in efficiency and mechanics with more crit, but how can you compare HPS and/or healer mana return to DPS increase?

Long story short? I'd give it to the Elemental Shaman. For an AoE encounter, however, I'd prefer a fellow mage. I'd also prefer a fellow mage (specced MoE) if the raid-setup was such that he'd be close to being mana-starved.

Raencloud · 01/30/09, 9:52 AM

I'm still wondering how AB-spam MBAM-ABarr on 0 or 3 stack is a dps increase over AB-spam MBAM-ABarr on 3 stack only when ABx3ABarr MBAM-ABarr on 0 or 3 stack is a dps decrease to ABx3ABarr MBAM-ABarr on 3 stack only.

I wonder if someone could play around with Rawr and figure it out. I won't be off work for another 8 hours so I can't toy with it for a while. I can't think of anything intuitively to support this indiscrepancy; every stat should scale equally between them and the differences between the cycles and cast distributions only pertain to why AB spamming until MB procs is more dps than resetting your your stack with ABarr. It's actually bothering me a lot now.

Korrigan, this is the AB3ABar03C

100100012:
4788.23 dps
243.095 mps
AB0: 19.55%
ABar0: 14.43%
MBAM0: 7.39%
AB1: 19.55%
AB2: 19.55%
ABar3: 12.51%
MBAM3: 7.04%

Thegoodman · 01/30/09, 9:57 AM

Originally Posted by Pintofbrew

That's a very good question. It really depends if you're optimizing on one of two possible scenaria:

1) You want to have the maximum uptime for you.

2) You want the maximum Raid benefit.

In the first case, I'd suspect an E-shaman would be optimal, due to their higher cast-per-second than a FFB mage, though how much they crit to begin with may change this. Ultimately, you want to know how many crits-per-second the class generates in order to evaluate it correctly. However, an E-shaman critting will increase uptime of Elemental Oath, so now the DPS-return becomes dependent on how their buff influences your DPS too... Extremely complex.

Ultimately, I prefer to give it to whoever's struggling (for good reason that is, not whoever sucks hardest). Both E-shamans and FFB mages gain efficiency from the Crit so whoever is in the worst state with respect to mana would be my choice. In pure DPS terms, as in "who gains more from 3% crit", I'd be surprised if anyone surpassed the FFB mage, purely due to crit size modifier. Having said that, increasing a 60% crit to a 63% is a lot less increase than 45 to 48%.

Strictly, it's very hard to quantify the second, because the possibility of giving it to a healer makes it impossible to estimate. Shamans, Priests and Palas will all benefit in efficiency and mechanics with more crit, but how can you compare HPS and/or healer mana return to DPS increase?

Long story short? I'd give it to the Elemental Shaman. For an AoE encounter, however, I'd prefer a fellow mage. I'd also prefer a fellow mage (specced MoE) if the raid-setup was such that he'd be close to being mana-starved.

I disagree with this. Elemental Shaman use (to my understanding) Lava Burst in their DPS rotation which has a 100% chance to crit. This means that the 3% crit is wasted on on roughly 20% of their damage. Also, since Lava Burst is a guaranteed crit every 8 seconds, Elemental Oath is a non-issue and can be tossed out of the argument. A crit every 10 seconds is inevitable regardless so that also doesn't need to be considered. Ignite, Living Bomb DoT, and Flameshock DoT do not benefit from spell crit. Hotstreak on the other hand does need to be considered since more crit is means more procs for the FFB Mage.

So the comparison is an Elemental Shaman who gets 3% crit for ~75% of his damage with a 150% crit modifier and a Frostfire Mage who gets 3% crit for ~75% of his damage with a 334% crit modifier.

I think that the FFB Mage clearly wins out in this case. I would even argue that the Elemental Shaman should be one of your last choices for Focus Magic. Boomkin, Arcane Mages, Fire Mages, Frost Mages, and Destruction Warlocks all would benefit equally or more from Focus Magic than an Elemental Shaman.

EDIT: Removed the "sacrifice deserves reward" statement as it detracts away from my main point.

Twenty · 01/30/09, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Medusa

One simply question: what class is best to give Focus magic?

While it may not be the best technical usage, it's nice to give it to the guy taking the time to stack Scorch or Winter's Chill (do frost mages exist?).

Pintofbrew · 01/30/09, 10:16 AM

Originally Posted by Raencloud

I'm still wondering how AB-spam MBAM-ABarr on 0 or 3 stack is a dps increase over AB-spam MBAM-ABarr on 3 stack only when ABx3ABarr MBAM-ABarr on 0 or 3 stack is a dps decrease to ABx3ABarr MBAM-ABarr on 3 stack only.

This does not seem very clear, but I assure you it is the case.

I'll try and be as non-mathematical as possible in explaining why. The problem with using MBAM as soon as it turns up, is it increases the ratio of no-stack AB to 3-stack AB. So if you cast for a finite period with the suggested AB03C (AB spam, use MBAM/ABarr at 0 or 3 stack) or 3ABABarr03C(AB*3/ABarr, use MBAM/ABarr at 0 or 3 stack) effectively, 1/3 of your AB will be no buff, 1/3 will be 1stack, and 1/3 will be 2 stack. By using MBAM as soon as, you inrease incident DPS, but you'll have much more AB 0 stack than 2 stack. This is because interrupting a ramp-up will not allow you a 2x or 1x AB on the pre-MBAM AB casts, and it'll induce an extra (0x, 1x) AB to get back to where you were before you used the AB buff on the MBAM.

Simulation demonstrated this is a bigger loss than having a higher MBAM/time, while the average MBAM damage did not increase (if you only use MBAM at 0 and 3, it's the same average MBAM damage as if you use it at 0,1,2 and 3 buffs).

It's not overly clear, but it is the case. Think of it this way. If AB was a 4% buff instead of a 8% buff, it'd be the case MBAM ONLY was worth casting at 0x. At 3x you'd want to keep AB spam. As it stands, at 8% buff per AB, MBAM just becomes better than full-stack AB, and is still better than a 0x stack AB. It's just not superior than a 1x or 2x including the lesser DPS it'll induce due to lost AB buff.

Originally Posted by Thegoodman

I disagree with this. The FFB mage has made the sacrifice to use a sub-optimal spec to benefit the raid. He should be rewarded as with the Focus Magic buff. Elemental Shaman use (to my understanding) Lava Burst in their DPS rotation which has a 100% chance to crit. This means that the 3% crit is wasted on on roughly 20% of their damage. Also, since Lava Burst is a guaranteed crit every 8 seconds, Elemental Oath is a non-issue and can be tossed out of the argument. A crit every 10 seconds is inevitable regardless so that also doesn't need to be considered. Ignite, Living Bomb DoT, and Flameshock DoT do not benefit from spell crit. Hotstreak on the other hand does need to be considered since more crit is means more procs for the FFB Mage.

I can't argue with your thesis on why an E-shaman is an inferior choice. Lava Burst guaranteeing crit certainly assumes a partially wasted buff and a trivialization of EO, but increased crit on the shaman also includes extra damage from OE's talent. Also, when raiding with an E-shaman, I've not noticed a 100% EO uptime, as you state, though that could be due to mobility and/or ineptitude of the shaman. My lack of knowledge on E-shaman mechanics betrays my position, which I accept as possibly flawed.

I must totally disagree, however, with your thesis on "sacrifice should equal reward". If a raider sacrifices in order for the Raid to benefit, surely it's against the exact same principle to give it to a non-optimal target? This is not to say I consider the FFB mage a sub-optimal target. Indeed, it may be the highest RDPS gain, in which case it's the correct recipient. But absolutely not because he "took a fall for the team" and hence should be rewarded.

I also assume your point of "a crit every 10 sec is inevitable" is referring to the E-shaman. This seems to be correct (now that I read Lava Burst), but it enforces my choice of the Shaman as a better recipient as it'll offer you (the caster of FM) the highest up-time. A crit per 10sec is absolutely not guaranteed in a FFB spec.

Raencloud · 01/30/09, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by Pintofbrew

This does not seem very clear, but I assure you it is the case.

I'll try and be as non-mathematical as possible in explaining why. The problem with using MBAM as soon as it turns up, is it increases the ratio of no-stack AB to 3-stack AB. So if you cast for a finite period with the suggested AB03C (AB spam, use MBAM/ABarr at 0 or 3 stack) or 3ABABarr03C(AB*3/ABarr, use MBAM/ABarr at 0 or 3 stack) effectively, 1/3 of your AB will be no buff, 1/3 will be 1stack, and 1/3 will be 2 stack. By using MBAM as soon as, you inrease incident DPS, but you'll have much more AB 0 stack than 2 stack. This is because interrupting a ramp-up will not allow you a 2x or 1x AB on the pre-MBAM AB casts, and it'll induce an extra (0x, 1x) AB to get back to where you were before you used the AB buff on the MBAM.

You misunderstood the rotation in question. I am not suggesting to use MBAM as soon as it comes up. Look at the first 2 rotations in Kavan's list (these are the 2 highest DPS rotations under unlimited mana). You will notice that they are both the same with 1 exception.

First rotation (highest DPS) says: AB 3 times, if no MB has proc'd, continue casting AB until you see a MB proc, then MBAM-ABarr. If the ABarr proc's MB, then MBAM-ABarr again. Continue this process until ABarr does not proc MB, then restart.

Second rotation (slightly less DPS) says: AB 3 times, if no MB has proc'd, continue casting AB until you see a MB, then MBAM-ABarr. If ABarr proc's MB, ignore it and restart.

The rotations are identical with the exception of casting MBAM on MB procs after ABarr is cast (which is only cast after a MBAM, and thus when the AB debuff has already been consumed). It stands to reason, then, that MBAM-ABarr repeat should be the highest DPS rotation if ABarr always proc'd MB.

The problem is that this relationship does not hold for the more mana optimal rotations:

First rotation (highest optimal DPS) says: AB 3 times, if MB has proc'd, then MBAM-ABarr. if no MB has proc'd ABarr. If ABarr proc's MB, ignore it and restart.

Second rotation (slightly less DPS) says: AB 3 times, if MB has proc'd then MBAM-ABarr. if no MB has proc'd ABarr. If ABarr proc's MB, then MBAM-ABarr until ABarr does not proc MB, and then restart.

You will notice that here that casting MBAM-ABarr after a MB proc from a proceeding ABarr results in a DPS loss to always stacking to 3 first, and that is what I have a problem with (because the reverse is true above). In no rotation do I suggest using MBAM-ABarr when AB is at 1 or 2 stacks, and in all 4 rotations the proportions of AB0s, AB1s, and AB2s will be equal. AB3 will never be cast in the 2nd set of rotations because at the 3rd stack you will always either MBAM or ABarr.

♦ Seonid · 01/30/09, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Medusa

One simply question: what class is best to give Focus magic? FFB mage? Las time i try with a Enh Schaman, it was pretty well.

Personally I make that call an encounter-specific one, on fights with high healing throughput (Sarth3D is a classic example) I put FM on a tank-spamming Paladin rather than a dps caster.