I have also noticed significantly inconsistency with this regard. On Argent Dawn, most users are playing at around 100-200 ms latencies, so I found if I targeted my ABarr clip just as the fourth missile launches, that usually catches the ABx3 buff, and sometimes (but not always) picks up the fifth Arcane Missile as well.

On the 57/3/11 Spec...

Assuming that one were hitcapped before, is the 8 in Frost (5 prereq., 3 Precision) really that much more efficient than picking up Netherwind 3/3 and Arcane Focus 5/5, and foregoing Icy Veins altogether?

It's tempting to shred the 11 points in frost to fill out the 'optional, fun talents' in Arcane - but the reality is Icy Veins simply has too much going for it.

Having your own mini-heroism, every 2 minutes, which happens to perfectly coincide with Arcane Power, in a spec that by nature can instantly adjust to milk this hasted period with terrific DPS (ABx3 or ABxSpam rotations) - is simply too good to refuse. The other IV quirks, such as tacking on a Evocation on the last second of Veins, is icing on the cake.

Arcane Mage hasted AP/IV stacking (and milking said period with triple AB+ cycles) is akin to Fire mages stacking CD's during TBC. The difference is, the arcane mage can immediately adjust their cycle to milk the situation better. The fire mage simply popped all cooldowns at the opportune time and the rotation continued as normal.

The true power of arcane, as others have mentioned prior, is the control it gives players over their DPM. IV is an invaluable tool here to further shape your DPM.

Not to be obtuse here, but I think you're vastly overstating the case. Arcane true power comes from retarded mechanics. I don't mean to say its poorly thought out, but mostly that the true power of arcane is simply that your spells gain simply too much benefit. I wouldn't be surprised -- in the least -- if most arcane mages would top most meters without using any cooldowns short of mana gems/evocation.

FWIW, you hardly modify much or attempt to modify your dpm all that much cooldown or no cooldown. Sure, theres a possibility for you to do so and make more efficient use out of it, but the reality is that your near optimum dps rotation is very much sustainable. And it does damage that no spec can come close to.


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reposting here for more visibility
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Additionally, as far as I know a [nochanneling] option will make sure the spell is finished on the client-side before casting, so doing this should increase the cast time by lag_time. I need more tests on this since it could be a dps loss.

Thanks, Tyrian. I was not aware of the double-dipping factor with IV and Evocate. Is there any trick/timing to this that I should watch out for?

When you say "milking said period with triple AB+" cycles, are you referring to the typical ABx3/AM/ABarr rotation? Or are you arguing that during the AP/IV stack, an Arcane Mage should pump out AB's for the entire duration?

Thanks again.

Manly, can you explain more about the use of macros? I've never used macros to cast my spells or use my rotations, but if there's an efficiency in using a /cast [nochanneling] macro for Arcane Barrage, I'd be very interested in learning more about it.

I would suggest doing a browser search for WoW Mage Macros and read through all you find there. You can get a good handle on macro creation as well as ideas from going through what is already readily available to you.

It's true on many current (short) fights we can just use our near-optimum rotation and not really notice or appreciate the flexibility Arcane has the potential to give. Perhaps at the moment my view is overstated for current content.

However, the flexibility mechanics are there - it's just up to the encounter designers to deliver us innovative and varied encounters to really expose them. Curator (short, AB spam burst periods for Evocation) and Thaddius/KT P1 (Long irrelevant phase where you need to do DPS, but would rather save mana for the following phase: ABx1-2 ABar) are two extreme examples. Being trivial encounters, however, nobody will care much what people do when the fights are so short and easy. Perhaps with Ulduar-level difficulty, it will be easier to notice.

This is why I have stated that Arcane doesn't deserve a nerf just yet. Ulduar is still unknown to everyone and for whatever reason, Arcane may not do well there (I can't imagine why though...Arcane Immune possibly?). There could be bosses that take more damage from DoTs, have changing resistances(Chromag), strip off player buffs (Garr), not moving for more than 4 seconds is insta-death (half evo ftl), do mana drains, take more damage from frost/fire, etc..

Arcane is overpowered for the current raiding scene, but things change quickly. Destruction locks sucked in Kara, but were overpowered in Sunwell. Who is to say the opposite will not happen to Arcane mages? If the Ulduar gear is completely stacked with spell crit but the spell power increase is very small, will FFB overtake Arcane if this is the case?

I just think that every class has its time to shine as being overpowered for a short while and often times the change comes not from ability nerfs but other factors outside of that particular classes control.

The only thing I dislike about "clipping" is that I, too, have found that it is entirely too dependent on my latency. Recently, too, I've been have lag problems on Patchwerk which... well... pisses me off cause I love that encounter. But, w/e... to each his own in that respect.

I've been toying with the spec.. only in concept.. looking for what points I could move etc etc etc. -- I want to talk about Clearcasting.

Check this BASE spec out: 53/3/11 + 4

There is no doubt that you will find a loss in DPS over time due to the loss in crits. However... and I understand this is partially why Arcane is difficult to do math for... but... in losing the 30% chance to crit on 10% of your casts (of which you DON'T know WHICH type of cast it will be)... is it worth taking out these points in favor of something that makes the spec a little more.... caster friendly?

So I guess my questions in dropping Clearcasting are:
- Does mana become more of a problem? too big of a problem?
- Are we losing that much DPS due to Potency?
- Where can we place the extra 4 points? CC chance + 2? Potency + 2?

Just a brain fart, guys, while I sit here at work.

There may be other threads going on this, and Blizzard is probably already aware, but I posted a thread on the Bug Report forums about the Arcane Blast debuff being cleansable. Feel free to bump or lend some of your valuable insight there.

I wouldnt worry about AB buff being cleanseable. If anything, I guess they put it as a debuff because they dont want mages to be able to click it off in order to enforce the rotations they mathed out.

However, as far as PVP is concerned, it ought to be a buff (thus, not cleanseable in raids) so that the opposing team can cleanse it. I wouldnt be surprised if that is part of the next patch.

I think as gear gets better, people will stop crying that they can't top the meters anymore. Each spec scales differently, and I think it would be good if Blizzard released multiple tiered sets for mages for each spec (like more int and less crit on arcane, and more crit for fire/frostfire). Small changes like those could lead to more equivalent specs in pve.

No, nobody said arcane scaled better or worse than other specs because that was on other threads, and that was before 3.0.8. The numbers are completely different now.

Does it seem to anyone else that the glyph of arcane blast is a bit over the top?
As a guesstimate:
ab1 0%
ab2 5%
ab3 10%
am 15%
abar 15%
Has to be close to 10% overall damage for 1 glyph slot. This seems terribly over-budgeted. If the glyph was 2% stacking it would make more sense budget-wise. Or 5% overall. That would be more in-line with the FFB glyph or the molten armor glyph. Sorry if this is the wrong place for this post, but it just dosen't seem quite right.

As an aside, anyone not familiar with the cast bar addon 'Quartz' may find it helps with consistently clipping/shattering the rotation. Quartz includes an approximation of the effects of latency on your casts, right there on the bar.

I can't consistently get the shatter effect with the default UI, but with Quartz I feel like I'm getting the hang of it.

I have been playing around with the 57/3/11 build a lot in the last few days. I do believe that there are 7 discretionary points in arcane that can be assigned as fits your play style and gear.

Specifically, I think the following talents can be mixed and matched:

Arcane Stability (5)
Arcane Focus (3)
Student of The Mind (3)
Arcane Subtlety (2)

I dropped all my SotM and AF and put 1/2 ASub and 5/5 ASta and threw a last point into Slow for utility purposes.

I found however, that Arcane Subtlety may be more necessary than I thought. I was topping the DPS list on 25 man vault and multiple times throughout the fight I nearly pulled aggro, and once I actually did pull aggro and had to ice block.

Still, the DPS improvement is hard to argue with. I went from the 10-14 spot on DPS to the 1-2 spot consistently.

I tried this spec out and loved it but despite putting out consistently more dps, there was some fights where I fell short of where I would be or should be all due to mana problems. I am currently using the glyphed molten armor, do you guys think I should swap over to mage armor?

I have glyphed molten armor, and I could tell a difference in DPS. I was using up all my mana at the 2 minute mark and then evocating/gemming, so it was cutting it pretty short. I think you should be ready to swap between molten and mage as your mana needs dictate. You may want to glyph the one you find you are using most. If you are just cutting it too close or going OOM, definitely use mage armor.

It also depends on raid/party makeup and what boss you are fighting. Bottom line: flexibility is the answer - neither armor is the clear choice 100% of the time

I thought I would add this for those of you that are on the border about taking points in Magic Attunement. In the Heigan fight, it seems as if they have increased the range of spell disruption to 30 yards. While I'm not 100% sure, it could be 25, but it is definitely buffed. I was standing a pretty good distance and still would ocasionally get hit by it when the tank would bring it back to position 1.

I went with Magic Attunement and I think it is definitely worth it. The increased range makes it much less likely that you have to move around, losing DPS to walk time, or losing DPS mid cast when a boss suddenly goes out of range. It indirectly impacts your DPS

I don't have much time to test it thouroghly, but I'm playing around with a nochanneling macro right now, and definitely getting a bit of a delay between the last missile and the Arcane Barrage... more of a delay than if I time it myself, but so far, I haven't clipped a single fifth missile, and I haven't failed to get the benefit of Arcane Blast's debuff on Arcane Barrage.

I'd say it's definitely an option for people who have trouble with timing.

EDIT: Never mind. Continued attempts resulted in Arcane Barrage not getting the Arcane Blast debuff on occasion. Not sure why a nochanneling macro would behave erraticly like that, so it could just be my timing in spamming it. Even so, it seems an almost sure dps loss if it cannot guarantee getting the Blast Combo. I'll try full testing tonight and see if I can figure out the difference.

Well, in terms of flexibility, it seems that Mage armor would be the choice. Reason being would be that it would make long fights or fights in which you have less replenishment from group composition, less tight in terms of mana regen or at least less reliant on evocation. On short fights you can still mana dump with AB spam. While I don't think AB spam is quite what it was as 40/0/21, it does still seem still to be a legitimate mana dump. However, it would be interesting to see how much AB spam would be needed to make up for the loss in crit from molten armor. Then again, this may be too subjective since it would depend on the fight length as well.